Betcha didn't see this coming...

Originally posted by Cheesefacedogbone
reply to post by DoNotForgetMe

 

Yeah but at the same time, I cant imagine anybody is really out looking to do a full restoration on an 87 ford escort. I agree with what the OP is saying, but at the same time a lot of vehicles just aren't near as popular as others. I think Chevy Luvs are awesome, but most people who like Chevy trucks tend to prefer the more popular models. For example: all full sze trucks from the 30's to the late 80s. For those years and body styles, almost every part imaginable is being re manufactured almost to the extent of the consumer having the ability to build a new truck through a catalog. Its really nothing new. There will always be parts available for cars that have a large enough following for a company to make money by reproducing them.. and the less popular models will be tossed away.

Well, I guess it's all a matter of taste, but I disagree Chevy luvs have always been popular and sought after at least in the this region, one of the reasons I think the OP is going to have a hard time finding parts. Most of the parts for Luvs around here at least were farmed out years ago.

I know at least three people I went to high school that had restored Chevy luvs and one who even tubbed his out and used to race it at litte river/academy; which is a local drag strip.

Anyway,I guess could be regional popularity too as well.

Go to about 55 seconds in. The only cool LUV does wheelystands. Why original engine? Also for some reason I was under the impression fabricating new mounts for a different radiator was fairly easy.

Interesting theory about gold. I think it's safe to say that the price is being manipulated by a select few. I have a fairly large number of Krugerrands squirreled away in the safety deposit box and in a home safe. Can't imagine letting anyone but my very trusted bank or myself hold on to them.

I don't think anyone is actively engineering a shortage of car parts to force people into new cars. Seems like a byproduct of the increase in metal prices not anything sinister. Certain commodity becomes valuable, of course it's going to be harder to find.

Don't doubt that old LUV you had got around 40 mpg. Hell remember the CRX? Didn't they get mid 50's?

For the poster that claimed new cars are designed to fail... SHENANIGANS. Cars are lasting longer, with much less maintenance required.

Man this reply is all over the place. Interesting thread though OP, I enjoyed our theory.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Remember with the "Cash for Clunkers" program a few years ago, those "Clunkers' that were turned in had to be scrapped as well. They had to be destroyed and documented as such. I don't think they got to part out much, if any, of those cars.

I actually love your post and think the general idea is legitimate. In regards to the car part..due to space constraints, economic practicality and a steep increase in the number of vehicles in existence in the last 30 years I must conclude that the demand for such parts as the one you mentioned are very low. When you have no demand on an item in your inventory why would you allow it to take up space? Even if smelters didn't raise the value by 1 cent, the metal would be worth more than the parts sitting there doing nothing. Should these places hold on to old car parts forever just in case someone like you decides to have their son rebuild them? Do you think electronics stores should keep putting standard-definition tube TVs on their shelf even though the demand is focused on the flat screen?

I'm just saying why should they hold something when the cost of holding it is well beyond the demand for it? I agree with your thought 100% in other areas like gold but not in regards to the particular car part.

PS: Playing devil's advocate

reply to post by SpaDe_

That's the one! You can put it in your cart and buy it, but then they send you an email that they don't have any, don't know when (or if) they ever will, and they are refunding your money.

Radiator.com was one of the first places I looked. I think they took my number just in case they got one in.

Thanks anyway!

TheRedneck

reply to post by Epirus

That's an apt observation, but the fact is that for many years salvage yards made their money on older cars. We used to have a "junk hotline" at one of the larger salvage places that let them search several states for a part and exchange them between yards. I could go in looking for any part, and they would put it on the hotline and 95% of the time have me a part en route within an hour.

I called them this time. The guy laughed when I asked about the hotline and told me anything over 10 years old wasn't on the hotline any more since all the older cars had been crushed.

It's not a single part, or parts for a single model or even a particular make. It's all older vehicles. And if older vehicles are no longer repairable, that opens the market for newer models. As the demand for newer model used cars increases, their price increases. And when that price gets high enough, most people start looking at a new car. Call it coincidental if you will, but the end result is an increased market for new cars.

P.S.: Nice Devils Advocacy.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Epirus

That's an apt observation, but the fact is that for many years salvage yards made their money on older cars. We used to have a "junk hotline" at one of the larger salvage places that let them search several states for a part and exchange them between yards. I could go in looking for any part, and they would put it on the hotline and 95% of the time have me a part en route within an hour.

I called them this time. The guy laughed when I asked about the hotline and told me anything over 10 years old wasn't on the hotline any more since all the older cars had been crushed.

It's not a single part, or parts for a single model or even a particular make. It's all older vehicles. And if older vehicles are no longer repairable, that opens the market for newer models. As the demand for newer model used cars increases, their price increases. And when that price gets high enough, most people start looking at a new car. Call it coincidental if you will, but the end result is an increased market for new cars.

P.S.: Nice Devils Advocacy.

TheRedneck

Well put, I agree and that solidifies your OP for me. I just tend to learn things by playing devils advocate, it's an annoying trait I have.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
Yes the cash for clunkers program. That was my first thought exactly. The Obama administration will use this to push his green energy programs by trying to force you to buy a newer vehicle and make the parts of older makes and models unavailable even at junkyards.

Now we know. I was wondering why the Federal Government was paying for these vehicles. Now I know.

And this my friends is exactly how socialism works. The government tries to dictate the markets to control supply and demand. Where in capitalism the market is dictated by what is in demand.

edit on 14-3-2012 by thehoneycomb because: (no reason given)

Ok, but the problem with capitalism is that if you have no wealth or means to aquire wealth then you are a non-person. You may be fit enough to work now but what happens if you are crippled or when you retire and are no longer of use to anyone...

Capitalism is not some magic utopian governmental system anymore then any other form of government is, they each have their flaws, with socialism it's a tendancy for corruption without oversight, with capatilism it's money having a higher importance then human lives, seems the only systems we currently have either put money first or they are too open to corruption.

If this is a conspiracy, it is so simple it's elegant. I don't know much about how metal prices get figured up, but I will check. It seems as though you've really stumbled upon an honest to god, insidious plot against the people.

reply to post by TheRedneck


You have to head out into the hinter land. There you will find Mom & Pops junk yards, who aren't connected to the web.

Myself, when I look for a new truck (Actually previously owned... aka used), I always look into the most popular make, model and color.

My 4X4 Ranger ran loooong past it's shelf life the way I drove it.

Originally posted by Epirus
I actually love your post and think the general idea is legitimate. In regards to the car part..due to space constraints, economic practicality and a steep increase in the number of vehicles in existence in the last 30 years I must conclude that the demand for such parts as the one you mentioned are very low. When you have no demand on an item in your inventory why would you allow it to take up space? Even if smelters didn't raise the value by 1 cent, the metal would be worth more than the parts sitting there doing nothing. Should these places hold on to old car parts forever just in case someone like you decides to have their son rebuild them? Do you think electronics stores should keep putting standard-definition tube TVs on their shelf even though the demand is focused on the flat screen?

I'm just saying why should they hold something when the cost of holding it is well beyond the demand for it? I agree with your thought 100% in other areas like gold but not in regards to the particular car part.

PS: Playing devil's advocate

edit on 14-3-2012 by Epirus because: (no reason given)

All true, but what is driving demand? This is the fundamental question, is it really the consumer that drives demand or is it the influence of those that govern social trends, like advertising agencies, which in turn work for the very people who would be maintaining stores of items that they have activly advertised to make obselete.

Again, The OP's suggestion that even with something as seemingly mundane and fringe as old car parts for what would today be considered 'classic' cars, there is a larger plan at work, You could call it a conspiracy however that would suggest that it's machinations are hidden when the reality is that they are not, it's all in plain sight for those that care to investigate.... Still, it is a bit of a rabbit hole, a convoluted plan that would give sherlock holmes a run for his money.

Originally posted by Raivan31

Originally posted by Epirus
I actually love your post and think the general idea is legitimate. In regards to the car part..due to space constraints, economic practicality and a steep increase in the number of vehicles in existence in the last 30 years I must conclude that the demand for such parts as the one you mentioned are very low. When you have no demand on an item in your inventory why would you allow it to take up space? Even if smelters didn't raise the value by 1 cent, the metal would be worth more than the parts sitting there doing nothing. Should these places hold on to old car parts forever just in case someone like you decides to have their son rebuild them? Do you think electronics stores should keep putting standard-definition tube TVs on their shelf even though the demand is focused on the flat screen?

I'm just saying why should they hold something when the cost of holding it is well beyond the demand for it? I agree with your thought 100% in other areas like gold but not in regards to the particular car part.

PS: Playing devil's advocate

edit on 14-3-2012 by Epirus because: (no reason given)

All true, but what is driving demand? This is the fundamental question, is it really the consumer that drives demand or is it the influence of those that govern social trends, like advertising agencies, which in turn work for the very people who would be maintaining stores of items that they have activly advertised to make obselete.

Again, The OP's suggestion that even with something as seemingly mundane and fringe as old car parts for what would today be considered 'classic' cars, there is a larger plan at work, You could call it a conspiracy however that would suggest that it's machinations are hidden when the reality is that they are not, it's all in plain sight for those that care to investigate.... Still, it is a bit of a rabbit hole, a convoluted plan that would give sherlock holmes a run for his money.

Precisely, great response.

I think you might be on to something if the metal shortage was indeed manufactured.

As for the gold - people, never ever buy something like gold that you don't actually possess. Why would you ever do otherwise? You give someone a bucket of money and you get what.. a piece of paper that says you "own" a quantity of gold that is sitting in some vault that you do not authorization to access? You've been swindled, plain and simple.

And the Chevy - I'd match the size of the radiator as close as I could to some off-the-shelf unit and make it fit somehow.

What conspiracy
China has had and still has a unquenchable demand for steel. They are pushing their economy by building citys.
They are buying steel from Australia and South America in huge quantities at record high prices to fund their projects. China has to keep growing their economy by at least 7-8% per year or the Communists may end up with another Tienanmen Square uprising
The world is demanding resources across all sectors because of Chinas development boom.
and then there is India on the rise as well.
No conspiracy, just supply and demand

The OP reminds me that economics is the real control system. Market forces are real. Anything that controls them controls your environment, here in civilization.

“The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.”

John Maynard Keynes Quote

I've heard that the new cars do last longer. The parts fit together better. The robots machine everything to 1/10,000 in.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Ixtab

No, getting a new one is impossible. Spectra was making them, but stopped a few months ago. I can find them online, but after ordering I get an apologetic email back saying they don't have any in stock and have no ETA on when new ones will be available. After about ten such emails from different places, I started calling instead.

One place has them listed as out of stock - coming soon. When I call, they say they will get some from "Asia", but have no date. We have been waiting for a month now and still the same old story.

Feel free to prove me wrong: 1980 Chevrolet LUV mini-pickup truck, base body style, 1.8L 4-cylinder engine.

TheRedneck

Not sure if it helps but over here in the UK a lot of car parts are interchangeable between manufacturors, for instance mazda and Kia have the same brake units between some of the models.

I have come across this a few times when fixing cars so it maybe that one from a similar aged vehicle will fit.

reply to post by abeverage


I think investing in things that last and can always be used is the smart way to go. I think I may start stockpiling books, aspirin and toilet paper . Along the same lines I wonder if the show Hoarders is propaganda to discourage people from holding onto things. So that they will be more dependent later, if and when TSHTF.

reply to post by TheRedneck


We have a place up here in Ohio called U Pull and Pay, and they do have a lot of older model cars, but finding the vehicle and part you need is pretty much a crap shoot. You can call to find out if they have that make model and year of vehicle, but you have to pay a small fee to get in to see if it still has the part you need, and then pay a very reasonable price for the part after you get it for yourself.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Hmm you know what, you have a point. This could also apply to a whole lot of other things and it kind of explains what has been going on.

If people really want to know who is in control, study history (what's left of it), read up about civilisations pre-Islamic/Christianity/Judaism and you will be surprised at how people were back then. Especially Europe and the then wider Iran (which had substantial power and influence with beliefs like Zoroastrianism etc). The Greeks and Romans as well.

In all these eras one thing remained constant, a small group of people manipulated a large group of people.