Federal Government says Texas voter photo ID law discriminates against Hispanics. Huh?

reply to post by votan


So, they can take the time to become a citizen, if they weren't born here....they can take the time to fill out a voter registration card....but they can't get an ID?? For free?? (Texas grants them for free).

America is a democratic Republic. Perhaps it isn't a utopian democracy (or what I gather is called a 'direct' democracy) where every single measure is approved by plebiscite or referendum - obviously that is unrealistic and impracticable.

But it is however absurd to say that this is not a democracy or a democratic republic - this is a republic (form of gov't where the people hold the power through their elected representatives) which engages in a democratic process whereby the people can vote for representatives to govern the country on their behalf.

Here's the thing:

If you don't want to get an ID, you don't vote.

Don't want a driver's license? Don't drive.
Don't want a high school and/or college ID? (required for busing, meals, entrance to exams, etc.) home school.

Living in the land of the free, grants a person the right to choose. It doesn't give them the right to vote multiple times, vote if they aren't a citizen, vote if you're dead, etc.

This is so simple it amazes me it's even an issue frankly.

reply to post by duality90


Yes, we're a republic. So that means we shouldn't have to prove citizenship to vote? What is your point?

reply to post by LeoStarchild


Either way, don't you think we should be ensuring that people who vote for representation for this country are actually citizens of this country?? We don't allow Mexicans, Jamaicans, or Brits to vote....why should we allow non-citizens living here, legally or illegally, to vote? How can we ensure people are actually citizens if we don't require them to prove they are citizens?

Go to a city polling station and say you are any of the following:

John Smith
Miguel Rodriguez
Maria Lopez
Mary Johnson
Robert Williams

Look at their prior signature, sign, and vote. See how simple it would be to vote illegally?

It's hard to believe that one of the more important rights in this country is handled so unimportantly.

reply to post by lpowell0627


Is that true? In any case, I don't think the point is that it's expensive, but that it can be quite difficult to find time to go to your nearest DMV (in Houston, there are really not that many, for instance) and spend quite possibly all day queueing in line (as my experience in renewing this summer showed me). Fortunately, I was between jobs when I went to apply, but how could someone with possibly two jobs manage to find 6 hours during the working day to spend waiting in line?

Although you can renew online - if you have the relevant documentation and already hold a license!

Originally posted by Auricom
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

Such idiocy, I mean really. For starters, this only hurts the illegal-Hispanics. And last time I checked, they were criminals who broke the countries laws by crossing it's borders without proper documentation. As I'm sure most legal Hispanics have one or another form of picture I.D.

Not sure if this is political correctness gone overboard costing us fraudulent votes or if it's meant to encourage fraudulent votes... Sickening either way, and just a sign to show you that political correctness will be the cause of Western downfall. (Amongst others)

That's exactly right. They are attempting to legislate political correctness. Requiring a photo ID would theoretically disenfranchise a portion of every race. The biggest segment of the population that it would truly affect are the illegals. It would also affect the ability to commit voter fraud by voting multiple times in different districts or under different names. Illegal acts all of which benefit democrats.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
reply to post by Helmkat

 

Citizenship is required. Saying that's unconstitutional?

Read the link? Understand the history? Then you know your question is deflection and a ploy to undermine the rights of American citizens.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
reply to post by duality90

 

Yes, we're a republic. So that means we shouldn't have to prove citizenship to vote? What is your point?

Simply replying to what some other poster had stated ('America is not a democracy'), as though Voting was some subordinate concern.

You are conflating my belief that we should protect the voting rights of individuals with a belief that you should not have to prove you are a citizen to vote. It goes without saying that we should prevent voter fraud, but many (including myself) will question whether effectively disenfranchising people and refusing their right to vote as a means of fraud prevention is proportionate to the harm remedied. The antidote is worse than the poison and so on...

The only reason to require ID for anything is to prevent people who are unqualified to do things from causing mayhem. Works well for driving, marriage, guns etc. The only reason to not want voter ID is so that illegal aliens can vote and others can vote many times. If we ever get voter ID anywhere, that place will never be able to be stolen by ghost ballots again. This is what the idiots running the show DON'T want. You let idiots drive your gonna get lost! Please, please get the idiots out of the drivers seat before they drive us over a cliff!

I don't necessarily think it is a bad thing to require a picture id in order to vote. I think, if it was done correctly, it could help eliminate voter fraud. Of course I don't believe I have ever heard of the actual citizen voters participating in election fraud-- that is usually reserved for campaign officials. As for this bill being discriminate-- of course it is. Most, if not all, new election-related bills are designed to prevent a certain number of people from voting. Seems to me that to vote you should be a white male land-owner.

forgot to add that (in my opinion as i have no hard facts) it doesn't matter who votes or not. the votes will be manipulated to produce the desired outcome. (desired by whom? doesn't matter.)

Once again, the left is skewing the news. The requirement is for a PHOTO ID, not a Driver's License. Oh, and BTW, Texas provides Photo ID cards AT NO COST. 'nuff said, end of argument, show your ID and vote.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by Auricom
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

Such idiocy, I mean really. For starters, this only hurts the illegal-Hispanics. And last time I checked, they were criminals who broke the countries laws by crossing it's borders without proper documentation. As I'm sure most legal Hispanics have one or another form of picture I.D.

Not sure if this is political correctness gone overboard costing us fraudulent votes or if it's meant to encourage fraudulent votes... Sickening either way, and just a sign to show you that political correctness will be the cause of Western downfall. (Amongst others)

That's exactly right. They are attempting to legislate political correctness. Requiring a photo ID would theoretically disenfranchise a portion of every race. The biggest segment of the population that it would truly affect are the illegals. It would also affect the ability to commit voter fraud by voting multiple times in different districts or under different names. Illegal acts all of which benefit democrats.

Are there any studies showing how many illegals vote, and can anyone confirm to me that all people living in an electoral district are immediately shown on electoral roles regardless of citizenship? I am not yet a US Citizen so I don't have any first-hand experience of this, but if someone could actually set out the facts and the truths, perhaps we could then assess the validity of the arguments instead of blindly asserting 'too many illegals vote' and that 'this protects illegals` ability to vote'. I simply do not believe that the Federal government and even the Democratic party feel they have a vested interested in ensuring that vast swathes of illegal aliens have the ability to vote - until I see statistics which demonstrate that voter fraud is actually a serious problem (I had been led to believe that it actually is not), I will give the Federal government the benefit of the doubt in this matter. The same would be true if this were a Republican administration, because it would be offensive to me that any Administration would try to curry favour and subvert the voting process for its own political gain.

As usual, we are examining legal action which the DoJ is required to take as a matter of Constitutional principle through the focal lens of partisan motivation. The fact is that the Texas measure 1) may well be unconstitutionally discriminatory; and 2) cannot be put in place without the approval of the DoJ/Federal government under s.5 VRA 1965

Originally posted by Helmkat
Hmmm seems like many here have not heard of the 15th Amendment and the voting rights act...

15th

the Act prohibits states from imposing any "voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure ...

Next thing you know Texas will want to have English oral exams before you vote...

Actually it was to prevent the following in bold. But it may be able to cover what you are implying

Echoing the language of the 15th Amendment, the Act prohibits states from imposing any "voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure ... to deny or abridge the right of any citizen of the United States to vote on account of race or color."[3]

Specifically, Congress intended the Act to outlaw the practice of requiring otherwise qualified voters to pass literacy tests in order to register to vote, a principal means by which Southern states had prevented African-Americans from exercising the franchise.

[2] The Act was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson, a Democrat, who had earlier signed the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964 into law

The key words being qualified voters. Bottom line everyone knows why someone especially in Texas would not have the proper documentation to acquire a DL or State ID. Last I check the 15th Amendment protected US Citizen only.

Originally posted by the4thhorseman

Originally posted by Helmkat
Hmmm seems like many here have not heard of the 15th Amendment and the voting rights act...

15th

the Act prohibits states from imposing any "voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure ...

Next thing you know Texas will want to have English oral exams before you vote...

Actually it was to prevent the following in bold. But it may be able to cover what you are implying

Echoing the language of the 15th Amendment, the Act prohibits states from imposing any "voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure ... to deny or abridge the right of any citizen of the United States to vote on account of race or color."[3]

Specifically, Congress intended the Act to outlaw the practice of requiring otherwise qualified voters to pass literacy tests in order to register to vote, a principal means by which Southern states had prevented African-Americans from exercising the franchise.

[2] The Act was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson, a Democrat, who had earlier signed the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964 into law

The key words being qualified voters. Bottom line everyone knows why someone especially in Texas would not have the proper documentation to acquire a DL or State ID. Last I check the 15th Amendment protected US Citizen only.

Correct - but the point is that is that an otherwise valid measure aimed at preventing illegal aliens from voting is also going to affect voters who are otherwise qualified . Look to the substance rather than the form.

Originally posted by duality90

Are there any studies showing how many illegals vote, and can anyone confirm to me that all people living in an electoral district are immediately shown on electoral roles regardless of citizenship? I am not yet a US Citizen so I don't have any first-hand experience of this, but if someone could actually set out the facts and the truths, perhaps we could then assess the validity of the arguments instead of blindly asserting 'too many illegals vote' and that 'this protects illegals` ability to vote'. I simply do not believe that the Federal government and even the Democratic party feel they have a vested interested in ensuring that vast swathes of illegal aliens have the ability to vote - until I see statistics which demonstrate that voter fraud is actually a serious problem (I had been led to believe that it actually is not), I will give the Federal government the benefit of the doubt in this matter. The same would be true if this were a Republican administration, because it would be offensive to me that any Administration would try to curry favour and subvert the voting process for its own political gain.

As usual, we are examining legal action which the DoJ is required to take as a matter of Constitutional principle through the focal lens of partisan motivation. The fact is that the Texas measure 1) may well be unconstitutionally discriminatory; and 2) cannot be put in place without the approval of the DoJ/Federal government under s.5 VRA 1965

Statistically I can not give you a percentage. One can however real what the reasoning behind opposing such a requirement is and there are only two viable options:

1) It is know how many illegals vote and it will effect the outcome of an election

2) Voter fraud is the tactic used by that political party that uses the "illegal/discriminatory" card as their scapegoat. Meaning there is a vast majority of votes being cast fraudulently, these may not be illegals voting but actual US citizens/organizations taking part of it. So when a state cracks down of voting requirement to help prevent it the opposing party mentions "Hispanics" voting which then turns to "Illegals" voting. Then turning it into a race issue instead of a voting issue by deflecting what is actually going on (voter fraud) all at the same time looking like the defenders of the "minority race" while only truly protecting their own interests.

Just my thoughts on it.

If photo ID's are given at no cost...I would agree.

If I have to pay anything to vote. Then it is discriminatory.

Not sure if anyone stated this already.

Peace

Sorry was not meant to be direct response to you..but rather the OP.

reply to post by duality90


Your example of an extreme should not be used to set policy. It takes me less than 15 minutes at the DMV. The answer to your problem is simple: fix the DMV. You don't allow non-citizens to vote and others to commit voting fraud simply because the DMV sucks.

reply to post by spav5


So according to you, everything that requires payment is discriminatory?

Passports
Licenses
College applications
Taxes

Green cards require payment. That's discriminatory as well?

Reality check: life is not free. What is free is paid for by other people called TAXPAYERS!!!