The Soldier, the Knocker, and the Burden of Permission

reply to post by rockledr


Thanks....wives seldom get that. It is appreciated, and it matters. Whenever we go places and people see my husband in uniform people thank him. It is very nice and we smile, but only once has anyone of those people ever turned and thanked me.....and that was when we were closing on our home.

Not that I expect any thanks. I really am selfish as the next person...I love my husband, I do not want to lose him, I do what I do for him out of love....he does what he does out of love for his country....I wish he had picked a job with lesser risk of death involved, but like they say, "when you love someone, you got to love all of them, even the parts you do not like!"

Originally posted by Mijamija
reply to post by rockledr

 

I strongly advocate for spouses to take AFTB courses at the ACS, I strongly advocate for service members to encourage their spouses to engage in the community, there is help but the spouses have to reach out and take it, the soldiers have services too......they are not the best but anything is worth a try before things spiral way out of control......it is something I have seen too many times to count and it breaks my heart.

Thank you.

I have been looking into community based support for military families, and I am mostly finding private and state charities which provide things like financial assistance and care packages. Which is wonderful. But it would be good to see other things being offered too: support groups, counselling, and community activities; like the picnics rockledr mentioned.

reply to post by Mijamija


The pioneer tradition lives large in the common North American mythology still. People don't realize that the way that families and cultures are now is NOT how it is in the past or in most cultures.

Women (primarily - we can extend this to spouses) living alone with little support raising children, or even raising children in a "nuclear" family is NOT normal. Of course the spouses who aren't enlisted start breaking down too. The cultural insuffieciency is larger than people imagine.

In no culture will you find that some woman is left alone in isolation for most of the hours of the week with small children, particularly in the first year after birth. It just isn't normal. The pioneer go-it-all-alone thing is sitting in people's heads without challenge.

The "normal" that soldiers (and the rest of society) return to isn't normal, and isn't particularly healthy to families.

Originally posted by Eidolon23

Originally posted by Mijamija
reply to post by rockledr

 

I have been looking into community based support for military families, and I am mostly finding private and state charities which provide things like financial assistance and care packages. Which is wonderful. But it would be good to see other things being offered too: support groups, counselling, and community activities; like the picnics rockledr mentioned.

One of the cultural schizms exists here. At one point, a sub-set of women did this job. This skill seems to have been lost and hasn't been replaced with anything useful yet. All cultural intereactions are commercial based, and where they aren't they are non-secular which leaves an ever growing component of the populace disaffected form it.

Now, *I* am not one of these sorts of women. However, I have some lovely friends who are and they are like little friendly treasures.

(okay, I have two guy friends who are good at this too.....)

reply to post by Emeraldous

The old Roman idea of conquest, honor and accolade when returning home from war is over. Even then the common people saw it for what it was. The returning soldier seeking the justification for war time horror he/she needs when they get back is not there.

Obviously you do not know ancient Rome as well as you think.
You should know that honor and accolade when returning home from war was reserved only for the Caesars and for a special some. The rest would be lucky to get a dingy cottage some land and an ass to plow it all. Back then it was a job, and for some an only option. Today it is a job and for some an only option. Oh how the times have changed.

Do you think the people of Vietnam have this problem? The anguish the soldier experiences is the mind trying to justify why, in the case of Vietnam, we are so against communism then and now we are more than friends.

Actually one can only hope that they can tell themselves that. But I think it was even worse then that, because everything you think you know, does not really exist, or you can say that it was a lie. But it was not a lie, so you can say that it was all a play not unlike the ones you pay money to go watch. For this one you pay as well.

You know don't believe everything you hear. After all what makes you think we were so against the communists then? It might boggle the mind but it could all just have been business disparities.

But your right, the anguish the soldier experiences is the mind trying to justify why? And nobody likes to think of why, that is troublesome thinking, everybody likes there world lined up in nice little packages everything always planed out for, all they have to do is just sit there and follow the instructions, and swallow what is given.

Why? Three little letters, yet they will change your whole outlook on things. So ask yourself why and try not to get to moody.

Or why places like Hamburger Hill happened, the basic concepts of war don't make sense.

Your wrong, it does make sense. And there are very legitimate reasons for why war happens. One being, because people are afraid to ask why. The others...Well there are many others as well, and they do make perfect sense. There just not all that pretty to look at.

Here let me tell you a story.

When I was young, about 3 1/2 feet tall young, many years ago. I grew up or spent most of my time at my grandparents place, they were sort of farmers. They used to have some animals, one of which was rabbits, every time I went there I would play with them sometimes, watch them run around and even feed them, I think I even named a couple of them. One day, while there since I usually got dropped there for weeks on end by my parents. Well my grandpa says to me. Hey there, here come with me I have to do something I may need some help with, not exactly those words but you get the picture. So I went along thinking we was going to go play some games or something.

But I was wrong, we went to were the rabbits were kept, and he reaches in there and grabs one by its ears and pulls it out, he then reaches over grabs a knife from somewhere. And as soon as the rabbit saw the knife it made this squeel I will never forget, and it got this look in it's eye and started thrashing around like crazy...Well! there is more to the story but I am sure there is no point to go on, since your probably asking yourself. Whats you point?

I have none I just felt like telling a short story.

But I suppose this is were the knocker would come in. For you see the knocker is a new concept and creation, one that is necessary because of the way things are run. And yes it is relevant to this thread in a couple of ways. But the main I think is that there are not any real self sustained lifestyles civilizations or nations out there. And as such we will all run around back and forth and drown like rats in a sinking ship, every time the machine has a hiccup. If you don't believe me, just look at the tube and you will see that there all still arguing about the stuff they were arguing hundred's if not thousands of years ago, sure they use different words. But words have a funny way of painting a picture that is not really all there.

Historically there have been three powers over the citizenship that have run their course and have yet to disappear or be replaced. The military class, the priest class and the political class have shown that they are more concerned about sustaining themselves and not their ideals. Very recently of course the banker class emerged but that broke already, all we have to do is realize it.

What can I say, there all only human. But they were all put in there spots by the citizenship in one way or another. And just so you know, there are more powers over the citizenship then those

reply to post by beezzer


What a desperately-needed perspective, on a desperately-needed thread.



"We" didn't give permission for anyone to have war. Some people decided, and some people voted, and some people did the shooting (et cetera) and some people got shot (et cetera). And, like it always has been, we all suffer.

But threads like this, making it okay to go to the hurt places in our minds - the minds of those who have gone to war- and the minds of those at home - the confusion between eschewing violence all our lives and relentless loyalties to our enlisted.

Thanks to all for their honest and gut-wrenching input. This is how we heal.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by Mijamija

 

The pioneer tradition lives large in the common North American mythology still. People don't realize that the way that families and cultures are now is NOT how it is in the past or in most cultures.

Women (primarily - we can extend this to spouses) living alone with little support raising children, or even raising children in a "nuclear" family is NOT normal. Of course the spouses who aren't enlisted start breaking down too. The cultural insuffieciency is larger than people imagine.

In no culture will you find that some woman is left alone in isolation for most of the hours of the week with small children, particularly in the first year after birth. It just isn't normal. The pioneer go-it-all-alone thing is sitting in people's heads without challenge.

The "normal" that soldiers (and the rest of society) return to isn't normal, and isn't particularly healthy to families.

Originally posted by Eidolon23


I had to quote this and repost it, since it is something I keep observing as well. We just can't evolve fast enough to change our biological and social needs to what we get if we "do" modern life like it is shown on TV. Women are breaking, men are breaking. We are kept apart and we break. Now our kids are broken apart from us, and we pay others to raise them. No wonder we have low self-esteem and depression and suicide.

Families have balancing and healing dynamics built right in. By fracturing us on a massive scale, we are all together (with people all the time) but all alone (no time for primary relationships and the reinforcement they need, which is also healing for us).

edit on 14-3-2012 by Copperflower because: (no reason given)

Here's the thing about the "we pay people to raise our children." Raising children alone isn't normal. The communal thing is actually closer to normal, even if it is involving monetary exchange. Guilt/Mythology seems to make people unaware of this.

Somewhat off topic, but it ties in because the familial break down that vets live in does not add stability. The already unstable and unnatural familial structure being forced escalates the problem. Nothing is doing what it is supposed to, you try to make it work and it doesn't, you want to live up to expectations and the mythology, but the mythology is based on nonsense. So you try harder to force it to do what you've been told it is supposed to do.

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