port workers of the world unite or face part time call to work type job security

Originally posted by petrus4
This thread does, however, offer an example of why I don't consider collective leftism to be any better than what we are usually given as an alternative.

Given my own experience with the proletariat, I will state here honestly that if I have to choose between the likes of Gordon Gekko running society, or some violent, mindlessly unintelligent, racist, alcohol and/or methamphetamine abusing, blue collar animal, I will choose Gekko in a heartbeat.

That, of course, is the Left's entire problem. The majority of the human population simply do not like them; and there are reasons for that.

you attempt to scew the discusion to a left/right debate,
this is not left right so stop being DIVISIVE,

this is about FAMILIES and workers rights, decades of hard fought workers rights being thrown out the door so a milk company can make more money.

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER

i will try to explain why i find this offensive,
its hard to be objective when your former people were the ones being gased,
my family WAS jewish..............
i am OCCUPY supporter,

can you see where i am coming from?

Noted. Remember there were Jews on both sides of the aisle though. George Soros was a Jew. Not saying you are wrong or right or that Occupy is wrong or whatever.

But either way it is not my intention to offend you especially if it has personal implications. The avatar I chose was an illustration of what is happening today in America.

reply to post by thehoneycomb


and that is your right,
all i ask is for your consideration,
that is all i ask

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Sure.. I had been thinking of taking it down anyways.

But until I create a new one it will stay up.

Originally posted by Justwork

Originally posted by XPLodER

Originally posted by Justwork

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by thehoneycomb

 

off topic
i find your avatar to be highly offensive,
would there be any way of convincing you to change it to something a little less offensive?
look i will ask you to consider my request on the grounds it is personally offensive
what do you say
i say please consider another pic
please

xploder

I find your union propaganda and membership to be highly offensive. I find your union mates refusing to do their jobs even though they are obtusely overpaid and underworked highly offensive. I find your open communism highly offensive.

TO BE CLEAR
i am not now nor have ever been in a union,
i think you will find that they PICKED the port union to elicit a response EXACTLY LIKE YOURS,
but mark my words, this is not JUST about the ports, or the unions, it is about workers rights.

i am not a communist i am a KIWI NZ is a democracy,
what the port authority is doing is plutocratic,

i think a worker should be able to provide for their family with some job and wage security,
in NEW ZEALAND that is standard thing,
ARE YOU CALLING MY COUNTRY COMMUNIST?
we are capitalist here MATE

xploder

You talk about "Workers rights", the only "right" you should have is: do your job or you get fired.

Sure but, people also have a right not to work for companies that treat employees poorly. Oh course replacing a bunch of experience and trained workers with people off the street is not a cost effective option. So if you feel you deserve more for a job than you get paid they the capitalist thing to do is to at least make sure your getting a fair shape. And if you have a group of people that feel that way then more power to ya. Nothing more capitalist then that. Working a job just to serve the will of the company, now that seems pretty damn communist to me.

reply to post by thehoneycomb


i thank you for considering my request,
the evils of nazi germany is a constant reminder of how NOT to do things,
i understand that there is history that needs to be remembered and i also understand your right to display any avatar YOU choose.

as long as you understand HOW it could be MISS understood.
then we need NOT discuss when or how or if you change it
i thank you for being reasonable

remember that port workers have families, childeren, morgages ect

xploder

reply to post by thehoneycomb


Hitler was a vile monster, the Nazi's also...what they did was disgusting and honestly I don't think the scars of that time will ever go away. However if there is any type of naziesque threat today it is coming from our government and their corporate masters.

reply to post by Kali74

Hitler was a vile monster, the Nazi's also...what they did was disgusting and honestly I don't think the scars of that time will ever go away. However if there is any type of naziesque threat today it is coming from our government and their corporate masters.

Agreed. In order for us to be successful in our cause we must unite on the moral high ground on principals in the right side of history and not resort to the tactics that seek to divide and conquer less we become that in which we despise.

reply to post by thehoneycomb

Agreed. In order for us to be successful in our cause we must unite on the moral high ground on principals in the right side of history and not resort to the tactics that seek to divide and conquer less we become that in which we despise.

agreed x2
xploder

reply to post by Kali74

I appreciate your link Kali74 as it will give me something to think about concerning the occupiers role in this thing.

From your link;

“This is a victory for Occupy in their involvement in forcing negotiations. Make no mistake – the solidarity and organization between the Occupy Movement and the Longshoremen won this contract,” said Jack Mulcahy, ILWU officer with Local 8.

Local 8 is in Portland Oregon which is close to Longview by the way.

The sentiment of the occupiers up in Tacoma/Seattle area was quite different earlier on.

Perhaps the quote from local 8's Jack Mulcahy giving credit to the occupiers was made in hindsight with the contract negotiations now being made. The union officials were worried, at the point this video was made, that the occupiers would cause too much trouble.

The only union officials in that meeting were the ones attempting to speak out of turn. They were called, "right-wing bureaucrats and hangers-on from the Seattle, Tacoma and Portland ILWU".

At the 5:30 mark local 23 president Scott Mason from Tacoma asked the speakers where the local 21 officer was. Meaning they were speaking without their union representation. There were also shouts to "read the letter". This letter was read starting at the 7:25 mark. The ILWU was already fined $250,000 because of this EGT fight and 100's had been arrested. The letter of injunction spelled out the consequences for further port shutdowns. So this thing was far more complicated than it might first appear. The officials speaking out at that meeting were worried that this thing would get out of control to the point that any chance of a contract with EGT would be lost, or even worse that someone might get killed. This meeting was about a blockade for an incoming ship that was warned to have armed guards on board and a coast guard escort.

I strongly feel that having the Washington governor step in is what got EGT to start negotiations not the occupiers. Perhaps Christine Gregoire considered the occupiers' port shutdowns and the potential for this thing to get ugly in Washington state but we may never know.

Thank you again for your perspective on this issue.

reply to post by XPLodER

Now to get back on topic...

Here is some news for you XPLodER.
New Zealand: ILWU joins MUNZ workers at Auckland waterfront picket

ILWU’s Familathe: New Zealand strike is ‘international incident’

Presidents from several west coast ILWU locals are in NZ right now so it has gotten the attention of American port workers.

reply to post by Devino


Hey, thanks for that
There's an updated version of this video and here's the caption underneath.

On January 6, 2012, a labor solidarity forum called by Occupy Seattle was held to support Longview, WA International Longshore and Warehouse Union Local 21 in its battle against union-busting by the giant EGT consortium. The event drew more than 200 people to the Labor Temple in downtown Seattle and featured four ILWU speakers. However, a couple dozen right-wing bureaucrats and hangers-on from the Seattle, Tacoma and Portland ILWU locals physically disrupted the meeting with yelling, pushing, shoving and punches, in attempt to prevent its democratic functioning. The speakers and many in the audience made clear that these bureaucratic thugs did not represent the ranks of labor by chanting "ILWU, ILWU" against the disrupters. The meeting ended with an appeal for all supporters of labor rights to come to Longview to protest the expected arrival of a ship to load the scab grain.

Oops, link youtube.com

Originally posted by Devino
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Now to get back on topic...

Here is some news for you XPLodER.
New Zealand: ILWU joins MUNZ workers at Auckland waterfront picket

ILWU’s Familathe: New Zealand strike is ‘international incident’

Presidents from several west coast ILWU locals are in NZ right now so it has gotten the attention of American port workers.

thank you so much for that news
this is most definitely larger than just one port,
the international support for workers families is very much whats needed,

Firefighters, teachers and nurses' representatives will join striking Auckland port workers tomorrow, in a rally against what they describe as "vicious employers''.

Auckland local president of the NZ Professional Firefighters Union Mike McEnaney said firefighters from as far south as Christchurch will join port workers at a public rally, held at Britomart in downtown Auckland at 4pm.

Representatives from the New Zealand Educational Institute and the New Zealand Nurses Organisation will also attend the rally.

"We want to just show them some support and show that we appreciate there is another group of workers out there that understand what they're going through,'' said Mr McEnaney.

www.nzherald.co.nz...

the reason many different groups including non union folks are supporting this is because it is a direct attack on workers families in the name of profit

then news you supplied gives me hope we will not be turned into a nation of work slaves,
who cant aford to have childern

thank you buddy
thank you


xploder

reply to post by Kali74

Yes, I read that and I dissagree with the context of it.

The speakers and many in the audience made clear that these bureaucratic thugs did not represent the ranks of labor by chanting "ILWU, ILWU" against the disrupters.

Funny thing is that the people speaking were there of their own volition and did not repesent the rank and file of the ILWU members. The president from local 23 in Tacoma and other officials from Tacoma, Seattle and Portland were there representing the rank and file of the ILWU. These officials were voted into office by the members in order to represent them and that is what they were doing there.

I also find it funny how self proclaimed anarchists demand order and democracy so they can cunduct a meeting in attampt to create chaos and disorder. Rumor had it that EGT hired mercenaries to help protect their orepation and, like I said earlier, this thing could have gotten real ugly. I appreciate the support of the OWS. What I do not appreciate is false propaganda and people misrepresenting themselves.

reply to post by Devino


I do see your point, but I think it's easy to see this is a confusing event. I think what can be learned from it is for any proposed joint Action, is to be more vigilant, make sure all the facts line up.

Originally posted by Devino
reply to post by Kali74

 

I also find it funny how self proclaimed anarchists demand order and democracy so they can cunduct a meeting in attampt to create chaos and disorder.

Part of the definition of anarchism, is a lack of uniformity. Some are violent, yes. For me, however, the only thing anarchy really means, is that a person has their own morality internalised to the point where they don't need the police or state to babysit them; and that also tends to imply a lack of violence, comparitively speaking, as well.

At the risk of being provocative, I do not view the proverbial black bloc as genuine anarchists. Violence is probably about the single most fundamental expression of victimhood and lack of sovereignty that a person can make; you're implying that you have absolutely no choice in how you react to external events, or how someone is treating you.

They're not strong; they're weak. They're not innovative; they're predictable. They don't create solutions; they perpetuate the problem.

reply to post by petrus4


I agree. I think the SMALL anarchist presence within Occupy is okay but there's an even smaller few that seem to have some juvenile concept of anarchism which pretty much equals F the man or do whatever we want. That isn't anarchism, not that I fully appreciate anarchism in it's true form so much anyway, it's okay but not for me.

Originally posted by Justwork

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by thehoneycomb

 

off topic
i find your avatar to be highly offensive,
would there be any way of convincing you to change it to something a little less offensive?
look i will ask you to consider my request on the grounds it is personally offensive
what do you say
i say please consider another pic
please

xploder

I find your union propaganda and membership to be highly offensive. I find your union mates refusing to do their jobs even though they are obtusely overpaid and underworked highly offensive. I find your open communism highly offensive.

Thank god no one agrees with you.

OP, I fully agree with what your saying, workers are being exploited left right and centre globally just so more money can be transferred to the rich.