The Cultural Case For Being Against Interracial Mariages

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Funny, it is only you throwing labels around and maybe just by chance on those who disagree with you. You see it as a problem "personally" so far your responses have come from people who do not see it as a problem at all. It seems you want a discussion with only those that agree with you.

Yes, you are being defensive, and your premis is absurd. You are basically worried about "ethnic" identity and your main points involve food? Hilarious. Do you actually think that someone of a different cultural identity can't cook a particular kind of food? Ethnic food is not going to be lost because of inter-marriage.

There are major areas on the West Coast if the US where the racial differences between Asians and Caucasians are nearly gone. That's because we are into our third or fourth generation of inter-marriage, a phenomenon that started after WW II with Japanese war brides, continues with the Baby Boomers and the influx of Vietnamese, whose grand children are now inter-marrying. But there is no lack of Chinese or Japanese restaurants and cuisine anywhere on the West Coast, Indeed, they flourish along with Vietnamese, Malyasian, Cambodian, Korean, etc. Talk about diverse! On the West Coast you've got it! Inter-marriage betwen Asians and Caucasians is completely accepted and everything else is tolerated.

And that's where I think we want to be. With a smaller world it is inevitable that there will be a lot more relationships between races. The idea is to appreciate them all, but to get to a point where it simply does not matter. I don't see this as politically correct as much as I do a matter of evolution into a tolerant society. I know achieving such a thing will be immensely difficult and certainly won't take place in our lifetime, but I do believe it is a noble goal. And if you want an example of how this can work, look at West Coast, USA where it is a done deal.

To have it challenged in such a silly way as this is simply foolish. You won't get far with it.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Wishing to preserve a race is nationalism (minus the country aspect), which is what you mentioned in your OP

en.wikipedia.org...

I don't care about him being black, but if my daughter was dating ANYONE with corn rows in his hair, I'd be in somebody's face.

Originally posted by Kali74
Funny, it is only you throwing labels around and maybe just by chance on those who disagree with you. You see it as a problem "personally" so far your responses have come from people who do not see it as a problem at all. It seems you want a discussion with only those that agree with you.

Disagree with me all you want, just don't mislabel me by saying I am for dictating anything or imposing views on anyone else
Do you understand what I mean now?

Secondly I am not even against interracial relations or offsprings, I could be in love with someone outside my race tomorrow and I would be fine with it

You are not understanding the purpose of the thread
It's just to have a discussion, a friendly one

You don't have to agree with me, but don't misquote me that's all

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
If you've ever been to China or India you would know this to be incorrect
Both countries have a culture that goes way back, so far back yet so well maintained even today

Nonsense.

Mainstream Indian society and culture has been heavily changed by British rule. From the use of English as the de facto language in education, business and politics, to the passion which Indians hold for an obscure bat-and-ball game which emanates from an island off the north-west coast of continental Europe.

The fact that we are actually talking about ''India'' and ''Indians'' is testament to cultural change, as the idea of numerous different ethnic groups, societies, religions and cultures - within South Asia - becoming some kind of homogeneous ''Indian'' people is proof of the unregulated cultural evolution which I'm talking about.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I did not mislabel you. I didn't say you were dictating to anyone, I said no one has the right to, which whether you see it or not is the solution to the issue of cultural dilution which you brought up. I'm having a discussion just fine, label free. Are you?

You’re doing just fine” ModernAcademia”. I appreciate your post for the simple fact that you have the guts and the intelligence to ask tough questions and explore humanity.

From the responses I am reading it appears most posters are programmed to act and or respond in certain ways when trigger words, phrases or topics are brought up or used. These responses tend to short circuit the intellectual side of our brain and throw the emotional side of our brain into overdrive NO Problem can be solved emotionally, unfortunately with this topic many people have demonstrated their inability to think.
In the Ideal world we would be one race. But we are not in the ideal world. And as long as people shelve their critical thinking we will continue to have the same problems for perpetuity.

Ignorance is not about interracial relationships being bad.

Ignorance here has been shown in the overall responders not willing to explore this topic in-depth.
ModernAcademia. Good thread on a difficult topic.

Originally posted by schuyler
Yes, you are being defensive, and your premis is absurd.

No, I just see that people are not understanding the thread
Nobody needs to agree with the OP, just don't misquote it
I am not for imposing my views on anyone
And my longer lasting views have not even been expressed in the OP so I can't be defensive since i'm not against interracial relations.

Originally posted by schuyler
You are basically worried about "ethnic" identity and your main points involve food? Hilarious. Do you actually think that someone of a different cultural identity can't cook a particular kind of food? Ethnic food is not going to be lost because of inter-marriage.

Yes food, I love good food.
See without the authenticity of different cultures that have survived the times what you have in the U.S. and Australia and Canada is what you will get.

Look at all new worlds, new worlds are countries that have 'recently' been colonized.
Because these countries do not have cultures that go way back the country will quickly jump into corporatism, specifically fast food.
So the only thing that gives said countries something other than fast food or red meat is cuisines from other cultures that have survived the times.

Originally posted by schuyler
But there is no lack of Chinese or Japanese restaurants and cuisine anywhere on the West Coast,

As I mentioned in the OP this is not something that will happen tomorrow or overnight.
You can site even more examples but what I am saying is that it will take time and it will happen

On the West Coast you've got it! Inter-marriage betwen Asians and Caucasians is completely accepted and everything else is tolerated

But this thread is not about tolerance

I wish you the best of luck ModernAcademia. We are of different racial/ethnic backgrounds but respect each other very much. People today have a very hard time comprehending how you can see different races and ethnicities without being consumed with hatred towards those not of your own. I tried arguing it before, did not have a fun time. My beliefs are unwavering but in today’s PC world, obey the almighty GOD of Diversity, Equality, and Love, or face social ostracism. Good thing for me I embrace social isolation; unfortunately most cannot cope so they shut up and just go along.

Let me just say this now. Your thread will face an onslaught of people attacking you for bigotry and complete misinterpretations of your post. Once they see any disagreement with what is considered to be a fundamental basics of ‘progress’ they are consumed with hostility. People today lose their common sense to PC fundamentalism much like the religious fundamentalists did in the days of old. The Puritans of the 1600s are our Politically Correct of 2000s. If you seek to keep the peace, best thing is to stay quiet. Should being called Fascist not bother you, continue on speaking out.

Originally posted by Kali74
I said no one has the right to, which whether you see it or not is the solution to the issue of cultural dilution which you brought up.

But I wasn't trying to bring about a solution to something I don't necessarily think of as a problem.
I was simply wanting dialogue but everyone seemed to take it the wrong way

Sometimes I think that in the future it will be so diluted to the point of non-existance.
Not complete non-existance but by a large majority, so I decide to make a thread.

This is not about something I feel strongly about but rather a "what if" or "what about"

Just something to think about in a perspective people rarely think from.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You keep saying you don't see it as a problem and then in the next breath you say:

Sometimes I think that in the future it will be so diluted to the point of non-existance. Not complete non-existance but by a large majority, so I decide to make a thread.

What I have quoted presents as a problem, as a loss of something...loss usually requires action to prevent. I have not called you racist or xenophobic so please don't act like I have. I disagree with you, it's not more complicated than that.

Well, the only other thing i have to add is this: this dilution you speak of isnt new really. How many Americans of different european backgrounds have lost touch with their 'culture'? Myself, for example, I am french canadian, irish and german. I dont cook those kinds of foods at all, because my relatives all became 'americanised' because thats what was expected of them. But now there is more emphasis on people preserving their history. My kids are half Dominican, but they are learning both english and spanish, they will learn how to cook dominican food. Whether they keep it and pass it down to future generations is up to them. Like i said previously though, there will always be those who stick with their own, so too much dilution shouldnt be much of a concern, imo.


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reply to post by ModernAcademia


So, let's get to the crux of you argument, here:

What ''culture'' would we lose if your son or daughter decides to marry and have children with someone of another race ?

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
I don't care about him being black, but if my daughter was dating ANYONE with corn rows in his hair, I'd be in somebody's face.

Why??? Corn rows is a perfectly authentic issue. I'll tell you a short story:

A long time ago I worked as a clerk in a public library in a "Black" neighborhood. The Head librarian, Audrey Wright, was Black, and her mother was an expert in corn rolling. She would hold seminars in the community teaching people how to do it. At the time I was a 6 foot white male with long hair (to my waist) and a beard. One of my tasks was to deliver books to our "sister" library up the road. One day I walked in with a box of books. Here was Ms. Wright, Audrey's Mom, holding a seminar. She and I knew each other, and as I looked at her she got this s*** eating grin on her face. She said, "Michael. C'mon up here!" I knew something was up , but I did not know what yet. I walked up to the front of the room filled with middle-aged Black women and Ms. Wright, about 5 foot, reached up and grabbed my beard with one hand.

"Michael!" she said. "I'm going to corn roll your beard!'

Now, I knew my roll was subserviant here and I knew what Mom expected of me here, so I reacted in horror and said, "Oh, no, Ms. Wright! You cannot do that!" and the audience just howled with laughter. She went on to explain, at my detriment, her point, which was that my long hair was very thin and could not be corn rolled, but my beard hair was curly and thick very much like a normal Black person's hair, and COULD be corn rolled. So everyone had a lot of fun with that. She finally let go of my beard and I got to go back to our branch and tell her daughter what she had done to me.

Audrey just laughed.

So there's nothing wrong with corn rolling. It's just a style. I cut my hair and beard, which was also a style of rebellion at the time. Now my hair, such that it is, is short, and I have only retained my mustache these many years, but I still look back at my association with that community with a lot of fondness, It was a good time.

So let go of the corn rolling aversion. It's just a style and does not have to last.

And OP here is not understanding his own topic, which appears to be beyond his understanding altogether. Sad, that, but we can still have some fun with it.

Culture isn't static. It changes. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Even people who identify today as being part of a particular culture aren't going to have the exact same culture as someone even one hundred years ago who also claimed that same cultural heritage.

At the end of the day, most of us can claim to be part of a culture and likely more than one sub-culture. People from various ethnic backgrounds tend to get the best genetic material from everyone and are generally good looking people. I don't see how this is a bad thing.

I may not share an ethnic culture with people of other races, but I share other sub-cultures with quite a few. I'll tell you right now, I'd have absolutely no problem with a child of mine marrying out of their race. So long as they share the same values, morals, and beliefs- the rest doesn't matter to me.

I'll leave the cultural crusades to people who want to live in an idealized recreation of the past that never existed. I'd rather live in the present.

Actually come to think of it, I think if we all DID get together interracially and over time there'd be one mix of everything then all race wars would end forever as we'd all look the same.

That just may be the answer. Everyone in 200 years would have slightly tan skin, dark brown hair, medium grey eyes. The only difference would be how each person wore their hair.

Seriously. This just may be THE answer to stopping hate for other humans just because they happen to live in an area that has more or less sun and therefore gives lighter or darker skin to protect.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I would posit that what you term as "culture" is not too far removed from what linguists would term, in the context of language, well, a language. That is to say, a particular method of communication, unique to a particular geographic region.


In fact, wouldn't you agree that language is a major part of a "culture", so intrisically are the two intertwined?



Now, as any good linguist, worth his/her frictative will tell you; Language is a living thing. It does, as it must, change over time and geography, and in response to contact and interaction with other languages

In point of fact, there is even an acedemic term for this inability of a language to remain "static";

Linguistic Shifting


Even if left on its own, without outside influences, how a language is spoken, and thus understood, will change over time. Linguists, in fact, consider this a prime marker for a healthy, living, language; as opposed to a dead (or dying) language which remains unchanged, and unchanging until there are few if any speakers left to remember it.


And so it is with "cultures".

All cultures change, "shift" over time; both of their own and as a result of influences from "outside" the particular culture. This "change over time" is considered by most learned folk as a sign of a healthy, vital, culture.


Unless you intend to "hermetically seal" a culture away from any and all factors which might prove to be catalyst(s) for change (and in so doing, doom the culture you seek to preserve to an eventual death) you cannot, and should not bemoan what is a natural and necessary process.


In essence, to interfere with the processes by which the "races", or "cultures" interact and exchange is to threaten the very vitality, and potentially, even the continued existence of said race or culture.


Be careful of what you wish for; you might just get it!

Originally posted by Bhadhidar
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

In point of fact, there is even an acedemic term for this inability of a language to remain "static";

Linguistic Shifting

And so it is with "cultures".

All cultures change, "shift" over time; both of their own and as a result of influences from "outside" the particular culture. This "change over time" is considered by most learned folk as a sign of a healthy, vital, culture.


Unless you intend to "hermetically seal" a culture away from any and all factors which might prove to be catalyst(s) for change (and in so doing, doom the culture you seek to preserve to an eventual death) you cannot, and should not bemoan what is a natural and necessary process.

oh look... someone who disagreed with the OP, and actually had a counter opinion, that may just lead to further conversation... Now was that soo hard guys. There's maybe 2 more legitimate posts..

As for the topic at hand:
I have thought about this before, and the thought of losing our different cultures is a bit scary. a bit.. But I agree with what was said above. Everything grows and changes, or dies.

I also think proportionally that many more people mate within their "race"/culture than outside of it. And because of this I think that we will maintain the seperate cultures for a good amount of time.

I think a much bigger worry, is Technology.. Its changing every culture and fast. Information sharing may blur the lines much faster than interracial mating.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You've finally jumped the shark, my friend.

You can't justify racism, ever.