The Conspiracy about Muslims

Originally posted by BiggerPicture
Terrorism/Muslims is the "false flag" or decoy if you will,

while the world is taken over by this anti-Muslim family of Banksters...

silencednomore.com...

Actually islamic terroism started ever since Muhammad created the religion, in 622 AD. So no it's no decoy, they are serious.

reply to post by DuecesxGeneral

So if Islam was divided, lets say 1 percent is the extremist and that is giving way too much.

Absolutely false. Sure, there are plenty of peaceful and moderate muslims. But also plenty of extremists, much more than 1 %, there is no doubt about that. The reality is that around 30-40 % of muslims are extremists, globally speaking, and this is a conservative estimate. Educate yourself:

About eight-in-ten Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan (82% each) endorse the stoning of people who commit adultery; 70% of Muslims in Jordan and 56% of Nigerian Muslims share this view. Muslims in Pakistan and Egypt are also the most supportive of whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery; 82% in Pakistan and 77% in Egypt favor making this type of punishment the law in their countries, as do 65% of Muslims in Nigeria and 58% in Jordan.
When asked about the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion, at least three-quarters of Muslims in Jordan (86%), Egypt (84%) and Pakistan (76%) say they would favor making it the law; in Nigeria, 51% of Muslims favor and 46% oppose it. In contrast, Muslims in Lebanon, Turkey and Indonesia largely reject the notion that harsh punishments should be the law in their countries. About three-quarters of Turkish and Lebanese Muslims oppose the stoning of people who commit adultery (77% and 76%, respectively), as does a narrower majority (55%) of Muslims in Indonesia. More than six-in-ten (63%) Muslim men in Nigeria favor the stoning of people who commit adultery, while 36% oppose it; Muslim women in that country are evenly divided, with 49% saying they favor and the same number saying they oppose the stoning of adulterers.
When it comes to the death penalty for those who leave Islam, Muslim men in Nigeria are clearly supportive (58% favor and 39% oppose), while a majority of their female counterparts (54%) are against the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion; 44% of Muslim women in Nigeria favor it.

Source

And its not only about middle east muslims. Young muslims in BRITAIN also hold widespread extremist opinions:

That Muslim conversion is forbidden and punishable by death: 31 % agree

That homosexuality is wrong and should be illegal: 61 % agree

British muslim youth

LOL wow the Koran and 9/11 put together like 2 peas in a pod.

that pretty much summates the OP title, indeed.

God going!

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by DuecesxGeneral

 

It's difficult for me to know that I have accurate information. I only know of one or two Muslims and they live in the United States. I'm certain they're not representative of Islam. All my other information comes from the news. I try for many sources, but still, that is all I have.

You are one more source. I know nothing about you, except what you write. That is not a criticism.

You mention there are 2.2 billion Muslims. I have not seen any report that says there are more than 1.7 billion. Pew has reported the 2.2 billion figure as the number of Muslims there may be by 2030.

You also mention that the number of Muslim extremists is way less than 1%. Do you mean in the world? the United States? In countries that are majority Muslim? That number seems small to me. For example four and a half years ago Reuters reported on a Pew Research poll which asked the question:

"Some people think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets are justified in order to defend Islam from its enemies. Other people believe that, no matter what the reason, this kind of violence is never justified.
"Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified or never justified?"

26% of American Muslims aged 18-30 said it could be justified either often, sometimes, or rarely. 13% of all US Muslims agreed.

I would need to see the full and unaltered question, how it was framed and the source of the responses to know how to read that.
See, this is the problem from my perspective, if you asked the public and "just trust" that Muslim people are the only ones answering, that it's a genuine section of the community, and that they were not cherry-picked, then you might have a valid reason for adding that here.

Without knowing how the question was asked, how it was worded, who they asked, how they gathered responses, it's just more propaganda added to the heap.

For example - if I asked a question like that when framed by questions about Palestine, the results would be high for justifying it. But if I asked that question of people on its own, when talking about American soil, the results would be vastly different.

I think any religion and or belief can be so distorted whereas the person believing believes it strong enough to defend the personal belief/ego to the brink of death. Killing someone is wrong. Period.

Prophets/Son of God/ Peace makers such as Jesus did not give into Religion dogma. Jesus didn't preach Christianity he preached LOVE.

One day maybe people will agree to just have an intent of love in all they do. As long as the Earth maintains and the human species maintains...there is HOPE!

Peace!

Jenn

reply to post by Maslo

And its not only about middle east muslims. Young muslims in BRITAIN also hold widespread extremist opinions

How can a minority view (31%) be widespread? The report actually states:

We know from numerous surveys commissioned that the terrorists do not enjoy widespread support amongst Muslims in the UK.

So, the report you posted actually suggests that extremist attitudes are not widespread but are present and need to be countered...hardly earth shattering Maslow..thats 2 minutes of my life I won’t be getting back.

That homosexuality is wrong and should be illegal: 61 % agree

The British Social Attitudes Survey (BSA) found that 38% of the general population believe that Homosexuality is always wrong, a figure which rises to 50% among people classed as religious.
So in 2007 British muslim attitudes may be higher than the norm, but more recent surveys show British muslim views on homosexuality to be inline with the rest of the population...Improved methodology or changing attitudes?

Funny thing is of course, that the number of British people who describe themselves as religious is declining within the UK...

reply to post by detachedindividual

Here is the link to the Pew website which discusses the Muslim-Terrorism survey in pretty detailed fashion. I hope it's helpful, and I would like to hear your thoughts on it. pewresearch.org...

There has been a war between Muslims and ...everyone else for over 1000 years. To think this is new and exciting now is retarded. I have no other word for it.

reply to post by joewalker

How can a minority view (31%) be widespread?

Widespread is a relative term. 31 % IS sure as hell widespread to me. I expected it to be around 1-2 % at worst.

The British Social Attitudes Survey (BSA) found that 38% of the general population believe that Homosexuality is always wrong, a figure which rises to 50% among people classed as religious.

Let me paste it here again:

That homosexuality is wrong and should be illegal: 61 % agree

Notice the illegal part.

Just been reading on atlas shrugs how a muslim father poured gas over his daughter and tried to lite it because his daughter was dating a jewish fella, does not read as much of a father to his daughter, are muslims racist?

reply to post by Maslo

Widespread is a relative term. 31 % IS sure as hell widespread to me. I expected it to be around 1-2 % at worst

And yet a different YouGov Poll suggests that only 6% of those polled agreed that someone who leaves islam should be dealt with under any interpretation of sharia...opinion polls huh.

Notice the illegal part.

But homosexuality isn't nor will ever be illegal again in the UK....despite the best and concerted efforts of groups like Christian voice and the Christian institute....it just wont happen.

Originally posted by joewalker
But homosexuality isn't nor will ever be illegal again in the UK....despite the best and concerted efforts of groups like Christian voice and the Christian institute....it just wont happen.

Oh, it could be. You'll never hear me advocate complacency where Abrahamic (whether Christianity, Judaism, or Islam) fanatics are concerned. You can be very sure that they'll keep trying.

While the hysteria of gay advocates does annoy me at times, I am willing to acknowledge that said hysteria is entirely necessary, given who they're up against. Zealots of the above three religions have a tenacity that is truly tireless, and can span centuries if need be. If the gay movement wants to continue to take and hold progress, then their own tenacity must be entirely the equivalent of the loyal opposition.

reply to post by joewalker

And yet a different YouGov Poll suggests that only 6% of those polled agreed that someone who leaves islam should be dealt with under any interpretation of sharia

Care to link such poll? I have not found it.

But homosexuality isn't nor will ever be illegal again in the UK....despite the best and concerted efforts of groups like Christian voice and the Christian institute....it just wont happen.

I bet thats what most germans thought in 1920 about killing jews.
As long as you live in a democracy, that means majority, and often determined minority rules, increasing the numbers of people holding extremist and hostile opinions through mass immigration can indeed be dangerous. And whether it could happen or not, shining a light on widespread extremism among muslims is a a worthy goal in itself.

reply to post by Maslo

Care to link such poll? I have not found it.

Prolly because you are not looking. It's already been posted by either you or Ollin, surely you read things before putting them up on here?

I bet thats what most germans thought in 1920 about killing jews

Hatred towards Germans who happened to be Jewish was already prevalent by 1920, you may need to read more.

As long as you live in a democracy, that means majority, and often determined minority rules, increasing the numbers of people holding extremist and hostile opinions through mass immigration can indeed be dangerous.

lol, you got something right...a recent report by the London Met Police put Eastern Europeans as the immigrant group most likely to be investigated for crimes in London...More than 11,000 crimes by people just like you Maslo and thats just London. Physician heal thy self. jewishnews.sharepoint.com...

You are right, intolerance has to be tackled.

reply to post by petrus4

Heya petrus4, you are right of course, and I could and should have phrased that part of my post a lot better. I am aware that some of the zealots from ALL of the abrahamic religions would love to take society back a few hundred years and that we should be aware of it....it isnt only the fanatical muslims we need to counter.

Obviously I'd agree with the rest of your post

Joe.

reply to post by joewalker


I have found your poll. It specifically deals only with young muslims on university campuses, that means the most educated and most moderate of them. Hardly a representative sample of all young muslims.
Still, the poll shows that homophobia is indeed relatively prevalent even in such demographics:

- A quarter (25%) of Muslim students polled said they had not very much or no respect at all for homosexuals, as opposed to 4% of non-Muslim students polled.
- Male Muslim students were the most likely to be intolerant of homosexuality: male Muslim respondents (32%) were much more likely than female Muslim respondents (19%) to have little or no respect for homosexuals. Amongst non-Muslims polled, the percentages of males and females saying the same were 4% and 3% respectively.

Hatred towards Germans who happened to be Jewish was already prevalent by 1920, you may need to read more.

So is hatred of gays among religious people now, especially among muslims. And so is muslim immigration.

lol, you got something right...a recent report by the London Met Police put Eastern Europeans as the immigrant group most likely to be investigated for crimes in London...More than 11,000 crimes by people just like you Maslo and thats just London. Physician heal thy self. jewishnews.sharepoint.com... You are right, intolerance has to be tackled.

Yes, its pretty common knowledge over here that certain groups (criminally minded people and especially Roma people) almost regularly go stealing and abusing the social system to Britain and other western countries. Its advantageous for them to do so, since what they "earn" there is a lot over here.
By all means, feel free to stop them by tightening immigration laws and regulations and swift deportations. I have no respect for them, and they dont represent all eastern europeans, especially not me. If you do so, they might actually start to work over here.

reply to post by Maslo

Jeeze maslo, you and the rest of the scooby gang have been posting that particular poll for years as evidence of extremism of young muslims and now when its used specifically to counter a report about err, muslim youths its unrepresentative etc etc. Thanks for the laugh bud.

Still, the poll shows that homophobia is indeed relatively prevalent even in such demographics:

And still lower than the annual (and more recent) British Social Attitudes Survey which suggests that almost half of religious people believe homosexuality is always wrong.
Whatever, my use of the YouGov figure was to counter your assertion of widespread extremism....

So is hatred of gays among religious people now, especially among muslims.

There you go again...wahhh muslims. The National Front and other far right groups are also especially against gays...as are Jewish and Christian extremists which you again failed to mention...whats the title of this thread again?

Yes, its pretty common knowledge over here that certain groups (criminally minded people and especially Roma people) almost regularly go stealing and abusing the social system to Britain and other western countries

There you go with the hate again...Did the 2011 Bratislavian Rainbow Parade go off alright...I know there was some problems in 2010. It seems its not only the Roma that is hated in your Country.

I have no respect for them,

This is the main problem with the world.

and they dont represent all eastern europeans, especially not me

And yet when muslims (or Roma) make the same claims you dismiss them and tar all with one brush....

FWIW Maslo, I believe ya! Give us a shout if ya ever in the UK and I'll either buy ya a beer or at least give ya directions to some decent pubs.

Peace.

reply to post by joewalker

Jeeze maslo, you and the rest of the scooby gang have been posting that particular poll for years as evidence of extremism of young muslims and now when its used specifically to counter a report about err, muslim youths its unrepresentative etc etc. Thanks for the laugh bud.

I have never posted that poll. But yes, it is a valid evidence of muslim homophobia (which is a form of extremism).

And it IS unrepresentative of all muslim youths. Or are you implying all muslim youths are university students?

And still lower than the annual (and more recent) British Social Attitudes Survey which suggests that almost half of religious people believe homosexuality is always wrong.

You are again conflating different polls. A poll only among university students (the most liberal and tolerant demographic) with general religious people poll.
Compare polls of muslim university students with general student polls.
Compare polls of muslims with general religious people polls.

Whatever, my use of the YouGov figure was to counter your assertion of widespread extremism.

And you have successfully shown that more serious forms of extremism (such as advocating killing of apostates) are not prevalent among muslim university students, but things like homophobia still are.

There you go again...wahhh muslims. The National Front and other far right groups are also especially against gays...as are Jewish and Christian extremists which you again failed to mention...whats the title of this thread again?

Yes, christian extremism is still a big threat to gay (and women) rights, after a century of liberalisation.

My question is, if we know how hard it is to get a religion rid of extremism and reform it, why add another relatively extremist religion which did not yet went through the liberalisation phase to the mix? Do we need muslim mass immigration? No.

There you go with the hate again...Did the 2011 Bratislavian Rainbow Parade go off alright...I know there was some problems in 2010. It seems its not only the Roma that is hated in your Country.

So simply stating facts is now "hate"? lol..
And I would say hate for Roma people is pretty justified, or at least understandable. Roma criminality is a very big problem here, especially in the eastern Slovakia.

And yet when muslims (or Roma) make the same claims you dismiss them and tar all with one brush.

Have I ever said ALL muslims are extremist? Or ALL Roma are criminals? No. I have always said "significant fraction" at most. Which is simply a fact.

reply to post by Maslo

I have never posted that poll. But yes, it is a valid evidence of muslim homophobia (which is a form of extremism).

Fair enough, I thought Id seen you post in support of it but your word is good enough for me....

And it is unrepresentative of all muslim youths. Or are you implying all muslim youths are university students?

....though you are going to have to decide whether the survey is or isn't representative...of anything.

No I am not implying that all youths go to college, but it is a survey of on the thoughts of muslim students who tend to be younger. You entitled your link...British muslim youth. Hmmm, seems there may be some relevance after all.

Compare polls of muslim university students with general student polls.
Compare polls of muslims with general religious people polls.

Once again, you entitled your link British muslim youth...you were obviously attempting to link the data to muslim youth.

My question is, if we know how hard it is to get a religion rid of extremism and reform it, why add another relatively extremist religion which did not yet went through the liberalisation phase to the mix?

There have been muslim communites in the UK since the 1800's and prolly longer. Are you as vocal about the baptist/ Appolistic type churches which are spreading over the UK, bringing with them that strange mix of American right wing mix religious and political thought? Oh and accusations of witchcraft.

Do we need muslim mass immigration? No

Neither do we (the UK) need mass european immigration...the far right groups in the UK and Holland are about to turn their sights on you Maslo...good luck to Slovakia if the Euro Union and your funding goes down.

So simply stating facts is now "hate"? lol.. And I would say hate for Roma people is pretty justified, or at least understandable. Roma criminality is a very big problem here, especially in the eastern Slovakia.

Wahhh Roma, Mussies, Commies, Lefties.....always the fault of somebody else, ay bud.

Have I ever said ALL muslims are extremist? Or ALL Roma are criminals? No. I have always said "significant fraction" at most. Which is simply a fact.

So its only a significant fraction now? I thought you said earlier it was widespread?

reply to post by joewalker

British muslim youth. Hmmm, seems there may be some relevance after all.

Some relevance indeed, but we need to be careful, as the samples may be quite different.

So its only a significant fraction now? I thought you said earlier it was widespread?

significant fraction = widespread

Anyway, lets say 30-60 %, to stop with the pointless wordplay.