9/11 for Dummies: A Closer Look At Motive

Greetings, ATS!

Let me start this thread with a brief explanation. Until now, I’ve never truly explored the various 9/11 theories. I’ve seen some interesting arguments on ATS and other websites, but I never bothered to read further. Why? I’m not sure. Perhaps I simply wasn’t ready to face potentially cataclysmic information. Or perhaps the thought of wading through the quagmire of conspiracy theories was too daunting.

Anyway, I now find myself growing disillusioned with the US government and this has caused me to question what really happened on September 11. I’ve begun to read any and all material I can, including various ATS threads, books and articles, and various “Truth” websites. I’ve also watched a few documentaries. However, I’ve quickly realized that the majority of 9/11 arguments are so far out of my range of experience and expertise that I simply cannot judge them as possibilities or hogwash. For example, I do not know the maneuverability of the planes involved, or the mechanics behind a free-falling building.

Which is where you come in, my friends. I realize there are a plethora of 911 threads already on ATS…but after a page or two they quickly bog down with mudslinging and name calling. I have no desire to read through the muck to get to the good stuff. Therefore, I’ve decided to begin my exploration by posting a series of threads aimed at helping the average person (like me) understand the arguments presented both for and against the official story.

I will title each thread “911 for Dummies: A Closer Look At…” Each thread will explore only one theme; one thread for the Pentagon, one for the Twin Towers, one for Flight 93, etc. Hopefully, by limiting the arguments to the topic at hand, we can better focus our efforts. I know this will be beneficial to me; hopefully others will find it helpful as well.

Just to keep things clear, let’s settle on some ground rules first.
1. Be respectful. You might disagree with a person’s argument but please refrain from personal attacks.
2. Cite your source, but explain what the source means to you. Keep it in layman’s terms for us simple folk!
3. Stay on topic (this is so hard, I know).

Okay, moving right along!

So, as you’ve no doubt noticed from the title, this thread is focused on discussing possible motivation for the September 11 attacks. As far as I can tell, there are three various theories concerning the motive behind 9/11. If I’ve missed some please throw them into the mix. Here they are:

1. 9/11 was conceived and carried out by Islamic extremists who hated America. The ultimate goal of these extremists was to destabilize the government and panic the masses. Some have referred to it as “jihad.”

2. 9/11 was carried out by Islamic extremists, but partially funded by foreign government(s) as a covert attack. These government(s) may include Saudi Arabia and Israel. The motive was to push America into the War on Terror; thereby furthering the shadow government’s hidden agenda.

3. 9/11 was completely planned and carried out by members of the US government (with or without aid from other governments). The terrorist hijackers were simply patsies for the real event, designed to create fear in the American people. The motivation was to push through legislation regulating the rights and freedoms of the American people, and/or to gain support for the War on Terror, which was actually fought to protect our monetary interests in the Middle East.

Okay, I’m sure there are other motives but these are the main ones I’ve read about so far. As I’ve said earlier, if you know of other possible motives please add them to the mix.

Thanks, ATS! I look forward to hearing from you!

reply to post by smyleegrl


As much as I would like to think another country hated us that much and carried out the entire plan themselves I kind of doubt it. If they were that advanced and good at what they did they would have done it again since then. Very few organizations are skilled and organized and secretive enough to carry out a plot as large and all encompassing as 9/11. I pick motive #3.

I makes the most sense and that is exactly what was done. I also think there was something discovered in Iraq that we needed to get our hands on because the Museum was among the first places looted and Iraq sits almost exactly at the center of our earliest civilizations.

Tower 7 held a great deal of sensitive information regarding covert plots, secret atomic testing, tests that went badly, chemical warfare testing on populations, assassination attempts on foreign leaders, plots carried out by the CIA, NSA and other secret black ops projects that IF FOUND might have presented a sticky and embarrassing legal battle and so it ALL HAD TO GO. Are Cheney and Rumsfeld above suspicion? I think not.

It was a multi-purpose mission that sacrificed a few thousand lives (many foreigners) for something called THE GREATER GOOD. It single handedly changed our laws and our security measures and handed up here-to-fore unknown powers to government to monitor and control it's people.

It Instilled fear and outrage in Americans and began a war so we could use some of the advanced weapons that were building up but never tested. Nothing like new technology sitting in the hangar with nobody to use it on.

It completely and efficiently removed our personal rights and Constitutional protections to a large extent so we do not have as much freedom to hide in the shadows or protect our personal privacy. Not only that it made us give up those rights willingly and without a fight. All those protections once guaranteed are long gone thanks to 9/11 as well as securing our oil interests, no small matter in itself and like I say I am convinced there was something in that museum as well.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Nice posting.

I can't wait to see how long it will take "certain people" to show up.

I wont be surprised when "they" begin to declare 9/11 never happened.

As to the respect and decorum you ask for replies to observe; I don't think it would do any harm if held your breath on that one. This topic has a way of bringing out the worst in "some" people.

I have been given several differing labels for just asking questions about the things which just don't match the smell test. If you know what I mean.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

As much as I would like to think another country hated us that much...

lol...you guys crack me up. Thanks

I have to admit, tossing in the looting of Iraq's National Museum as part of this whole thing is a new one!

That is *exactly* why I hang around here....nobody has any idea what will come out next and you people never fail to impress!

reply to post by newcovenant


I understand your reasoning for choosing motive 3. It is definitely the scariest motive, in my opinion.

Do you have any links for some of the information you shared? I know a lot is in the realm of common knowledge, such as the looting of the museum in Iraq. However, I'd like to read further and if you can point me in the direction of your sources I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you for your response!

reply to post by hdutton


Yes, I know this topic tends to bring out the worst in some folks.

Nothing wrong with dissenting opinions, if its kept civil. I'm hoping we can rationally discuss it without resulting to kindergarten tactics.

Who knows, maybe it will work this time?

reply to post by smyleegrl


Yeah they are around.
You have to dig them up.

Let's start with the fact all the hijackers were Arab.

Did we invade Saudi Arabia?

If it was number one - Islamic extremism alone, there would be no end to attacks on Americans and even Vatican City, regardless of our attempts to stop them because those people are impassioned - fanatical and frankly a little crazy - like a dog with a bone, and to the last man they will die trying to kill us.

We see a little of that now that we have inflamed the situation beyond repair but it took a decade to get factions there to hate us that thoroughly and completely.

I look at it this way, your looking at the three main plots to a story of which you have already read. Its multiple choice. Which one tells the story?

#3

reply to post by smyleegrl

Changed text back even though it's possibly OT as someone starred me.
Six hijackers still alive and well.
Source

ETA
The motive is probably the hardest question to answer if we discount the "Angry Muslim" angle.

We know that the buildings were insured, there was also reportedly much gold and silver in bomb-proof vaults underground. There seem to be discrepancies between the amount stored and the amount recovered.

Then there is the little matter of all the financial companies, traders and all the rest that went up in flames. There was talk of records being destroyed of dubious transactions but I have no info on that from the Twin Towers, only that building 7 destroyed some rather important government financial records of some kind, 1 day after RUmsfeld had admitted that the government could not account for some insanely huge amount of money. (1 trillion?)

This would seem to point to either:

A means of eradicating damning evidence against someone or some corporate or governmental entity.
A means of controlling "the market" by destroying offices of major financial and trading institutions thereby throwing all into disarray.
A way to steal the gold and silver in the vaults. (Unlikely imho)
A diversion from some other act taking place.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

Yeah they are around.
You have to dig them up.

Let's start with the fact all the hijackers were Arab.
Did we invade Saudi Arabia? NOPE.

Now THERE'S a tactically strategic mind at work!

The Japanese attacked the US at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7th, 1941. What was the first major military invasion staged by Allied forces in the field? Attacking the French and the Germans. In Morocco.

reply to post by smyleegrl

3. 9/11 was completely planned and carried out by members of the US government (with or without aid from other governments). The terrorist hijackers were simply patsies for the real event, designed to create fear in the American people. The motivation was to push through legislation regulating the rights and freedoms of the American people, and/or to gain support for the War on Terror, which was actually fought to protect our monetary interests in the Middle East.

I'm definitely for number 3 except I think there where only a few government officials who knew and I believe they did it with the aid of Israeli spec ops. There was no US military involvement. Our military was as dumbfounded as us civilians.
I also believe WTC 7 was an intended target until flight 93 crashed in Penn. after it was shot down by our military (the only one they could get to on time). Since the plane didn't make it's intended target the real terrorists went ahead and brought the WTC7 down by the pre-installed explosives in the building completing their objective. These explosives where in all three WTC buildings to make sure the job would be complete.

The objective was to conquer the Middle East and all it's resources. We have managed to take out several key players there already with false claims such as WMD's. Every time a Middle Eastern country decides to sell their oil not using the US dollar we take them out. Iraq, Libya and now soon to be Iran.




I'm not here to argue this. I've looked this over for years and I promise you there is nothing the debunkers can say that makes anymore sense of the tragedy than what conclusions I've come to.

reply to post by trebor451


And there are people who believe Pearl Harbor was another staged ploy to get us into that battle.

You got a lot of faith the US government is something like Dudley Dooright doncha?

I admire that naivety and trust in our government.

I wish I could have some of that myself.

As far as the official theory goes, we don't need to guess - if the media is to be believed (and that's a big if) then we have the reasons for the attack. In his fatwa against the united states Osama Bin Ladin (of course whether or not he was involved or even existed at all is up for debate and beyond the purview of this post) alledgedly lists his reasons for the attack. US bases on Saudi Arabia, the bombings in Iraq and US support for Israel.




As far as motivations for George Bush, the CIA et. al. (or whoever within the American government, or even a third party w/ close ties or controlling elements of the state i.e. a corporation who sold weapons etc.) you really have a grab bag of options to choose from. perhaps the most compelling is that war is the health of the state. Those who maintain their financial and political dominance over the rest of us do so through the governnment (taxation wealth redistribution). Their power is expanded if they go to war. This is what the nazis did as well. The burning of the reichstag to justify war. Stage an event, blame it on the enemy and denounce those who oppose war as traitors and pacifists. This is exactly what happen3ed in the open media on teh run up to the Iraq war.

reply to post by TheLieWeLive


Can't help but agree.

On the topic as a whole, I have always thought these arabs were the luckest terrorists ever.

They were able to take advanage of several "coinsidences" that day, some of which had never been before and will never be again.

reply to post by smyleegrl

1. 9/11 was conceived and carried out by Islamic extremists who hated America. The ultimate goal of these extremists was to destabilize the government and panic the masses. Some have referred to it as “jihad.

SPOILER ALERT!

Its number one. "Some" refer to it as "jihad"? Thats pretty good. As to your actual motives. Well, we can never know absoultely for sure. Destabilizing our government? I don't think they were thinking that big. I think they just wanted to make it hurt for being involved in the Middle East. And particularly for our support of Israel. You must remember that these folks, like so many truthers, were rabidly Anti-Semitic.

reply to post by hooper


So many truthers are Anti-Semantic? How do you justify this remark? Just because one believes Israel government was involved doesn't mean a hatred for the Jewish community.

I myself believe Israeli special operations where involved but I don't hate or distrust any Jewish people. I don't and won't see one bad apple and blame the whole apple cart. Why does it always have to be "your racist or your anti semantic"? Is it that easy to make others seem like they are full of hatred just so you can continue to believe what you do?

Somewhere around number 1/2 with a sprinkle of 3

But it was allowed to happen
As it was an opportunity that would be of benefit in many regards
The pros out weighed the cons

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

Yeah they are around.
You have to dig them up.

Let's start with the fact all the hijackers were Arab.

Did we invade Saudi Arabia?

If it was number one - Islamic extremism alone, there would be no end to attacks on Americans and even Vatican City, regardless of our attempts to stop them because those people are impassioned - fanatical and frankly a little crazy - like a dog with a bone, and to the last man they will die trying to kill us.

We see a little of that now that we have inflamed the situation beyond repair but it took a decade to get factions there to hate us that thoroughly and completely.

edit on 29-2-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

Thank you for your response.

I'm not sure I'm following your comment about Saudi Arabia. Yes, the hijackers were Arab, but more importantly (IMO) they were Islamic. It's my understanding that the classification "Arab" is also used for members of other Middle Eastern countries.

I do agree that if it was a jihad event that we should have seen more attacks in the US... Perhaps good security?

reply to post by newcovenant

Tower 7 held a great deal of sensitive information regarding covert plots, secret atomic testing, tests that went badly, chemical warfare testing on populations, assassination attempts on foreign leaders, plots carried out by the CIA, NSA and other secret black ops projects that IF FOUND might have presented a sticky and embarrassing legal battle and so it ALL HAD TO GO. Are Cheney and Rumsfeld above suspicion? I think not.

Wow that must have been some stuff considering that most of space in WTC 7 was used by Salomon Brothers
Smith Barmey brokers

Floor Tenant

46-47 Mechanical floors
28-45 Salomon Smith Barney (SSB)
26-27 Standard Chartered Bank
25 Inland Revenue Service (IRS)
25 Department of Defense (DOD)
25 Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
24 Inland Revenue Service (IRS)
23 Office of Emergency Management (OEM)
22 Federal Home Loan Bank of New York
21 First State Management Group
19-21 ITT Hartford Insurance Group
19 National Association of Insurance Commissioners (NAIC)
18 Equal Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
14-17 Vacant
13 Provident Financial Management
11-13 Securities and Exchange Commission
9-10 US Secret Service
7-8 American Express Bank International
7 OEM generators and day tank
6 Switchgear, storage
5 Switchgear, generators, transformers
4 Upper level of 3rd floor, switchgear
3 Lobby, SSB Conference Center, rentable space, manage
2 Open to first floor lobby, transformer vault upper level, upper level switchgear
1 Lobby, loading docks, existing Con Ed transformer vaults, fuel storage, lower level switchgear

Most of the building was leased by major corporations, the US gubmint on several of the floors

Care to tell us where the goodies were kept ........

reply to post by TheLieWeLive


If you think WTC 7 was the intended target of UA 93 why do you suppose they headed for Washington after the hi-jacking and turn ? And, in particular, why did they dial in the VHF omnidirectional range (VOR) frequency for the navigational aid at Reagan National Airport ?