WTC 7 was IMPLODED : irrefutable seismic evidence from LDEO and NIST itself.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by Alfie1

 

Please explain why the greatest seismic event happens before or at the beginning of the collapse sequence? The more mass falling from greatest height would create the largest seismic disturbance thus could only happen toward the end of the collapse.

Nice job LabTop.
S&F

The whole point of my post in response to LaBTop was to show that because there is no specific time for the initiation of collapse of WTC 7, which obviously preceded the Penthouse going down but happened out of sight, and no specific time for seismic waves to reach the Palisades seismic station, then it is not possible to say that anything occured sooner or later than it should have done.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by Alfie1

 

Please explain why the greatest seismic event happens before or at the beginning of the collapse sequence? The more mass falling from greatest height would create the largest seismic disturbance thus could only happen toward the end of the collapse.

Nice job LabTop.
S&F

What do you think would cause a larger seismic event, some sort of explosive going off initiating the collapse, or the collapse itself? And why do you think this?

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by stirling

Everyone in america can see the Nazification comming but they are in denial for their own selfish or cowardly reasons.

The Oklahoma bombing was 17 years ago and they still haven't managed to set up the concentration camps yet.

Nazi Germany only lasted 12 years in total.

LOL I want my autobahn!!

reply to post by LaBTop

But nothing of it ever got to the masses through the main media cartels.

So, they're all in on it too, huh? Getting kind of hard to believe that after ten years and considering the number of folks that are on the "inside" that there is still no one willing to come forward and tell us about their part in the cover up.

-PLB-, it is a well known fact in seismic research circles, that a high velocity explosive coupled to the ground, or via steel or concrete beams or columns to the ground, exerts a far greater seismic signal amplitude to the underlaying bedrock, than a totally naturally occurring gravitational collapse following after the explosive event.

The debris that is on its way down, impacting still intact parts of the building is very, very slow compared to the very, very fast impact of gas, super-hot plasma and metal parts that shear through thus blown-up massive steel columns.
The resulting seismic magnitude of the explosive signal is far stronger than the resulting magnitude of all the later "slowly" collapsing columns, beams and floors. Just as you can see for yourself in the seismogram from LDEO.
You would have found that wisdom, when you had followed my advice to first Search for my former, years old already, seismic and explosive threads and posts here at ATS.


The same goes for Alfie, however his answers are already offered on a plate in my first posts.
Seismic signals travel through the New York State bedrock, the 34 km from Manhattan to LDEO Palisades at a speed of 2 km per second, period. Solidly proved during hundred years of seismic research in that region.
And for decades already are the seismographs used in these institutions coupled to atomic clocks.
If he can't or won't want to find his simple answers at the LDEO institute its still online 9/11 pages, or by using the ATS Search as I advised him, I can't help him.

These first posts by me are very comprehensive, if compared to the massive seismic and explosive debate material already spend on this subject by me years ago, which can easily be found here at the ATS its two 911 conspiracy, and general conspiracy forums.
As I friendly advised you to do first. Use the excellent ATS Search function.

When I will be able to get to my stored seismic material on this site its former Media portal, I will be able to swiftly react to these first questions and remarks with links or material arguments which were already long ago, brought forth by me.


Asktheanimals, thanks for the kind words, I hope with you and your other colleague-moderators, that we can return to neutral and civic debate of hot topics again, especially in this 9/11 forum.
While using solid arguments. And refrain from vitriolic posting behavior.
I hope for a civil exchange of thoughts, and a consensus at the end of the discussion, on this very important WTC 7 collapse issue.

When the neutral reader reads the opposing posts texts up till now, they will taste a nasty stance in the wording used by these posters. I do not understand why this behavior seems to be the standard in those circles lately, or it must have to do with psychological reasons, to upset the opponent, hoping for a post erasure or even post ban, after a burst of anger.

I'm too old and too long here, and long before that on other bulletin boards, to react anymore on this kind of vitriolic behavior. Either I neglect the poster, or try to interest him or her in a civil debate.
And I have a good reputation, that when you can convince me that your arguments are better than mine, I will gladly admit it publicly here.
Because only true historic facts prevail, and not my or your ego.


Asktheanimals, could you be so kind to ask Djarums in your Mod forum to mail me again, or better PM me here, to see if we together can find a solution for the by me addressed ATS-Media access problem?

Because the real, old and saved by me, seismic and explosives thread texts from the defunct Study of 911 Truth website are MUCH larger than these few first posts of mine in here.
With a boat load of damn interesting seismograms, seismic facts, drawings, photos and solid reasoning.
I really would like to amass it at last here, at this ATS thread, since I am quite convinced by now, that ATS will hold its niche on the Internet for a damn long time to come.

By the way, thermobaric weapons have one very distinct feature : their explosions are at very low sound levels, you feel them in your stomach, while your ears only register a low rumbling sound, like in that NIST video I linked to above.
The latest ones, round the 9/11 era, were designed as a thin disk shaped explosion front, that easily could cut through immense steel columns.
SEARCH ATS. ( LaBTop thermobaric )

reply to post by LaBTop


Why would an implosion many 100s of feet in the air cause a jump on the graph? Whatever caused the buildings to collapse it happened way up and the weight did the rest. Whether it was aircraft, det cord, aliens etc it all happen towards the top and most likely would all have about the same signature on the graph. Even if one suggests det cord in columns went off to help it come down the dets would be nothing to the actual building falling in terms of vibrations.

reply to post by LaBTop


I know you have asserted that seismic waves from the WTC to the Palisades seismic station must have travelled at exactly 2 kms per second and therefore took exactly 17 seconds for the 34 kms but the distinguished seismologists Won-Young Kim and Gerald Baum don't agree with you and suggest possible variation of about +- 2 seconds.

Originally posted by LaBTop
-PLB-, it is a well known fact in seismic research circles, that a high velocity explosive coupled to the ground, or via steel or concrete beams or columns to the ground, exerts a far greater seismic signal amplitude to the underlaying bedrock, than a totally naturally occurring gravitational collapse following after the explosive event.

The debris that is on its way down, impacting still intact parts of the building is very, very slow compared to the very, very fast impact of gas, super-hot plasma and metal parts that shear through thus blown-up massive steel columns.
The resulting seismic magnitude of the explosive signal is far stronger than the resulting magnitude of all the later "slowly" collapsing columns, beams and floors. Just as you can see for yourself in the seismogram from LDEO.
You would have found that wisdom, when you had followed my advice to first Search for my former, years old already, seismic and explosive threads and posts here at ATS.

Usually these kind of claims are supported with a source. I would expect the exact opposite. While explosives may be louder, it seems to me that the frequency is much higher, with the result that the magnitude of the resulting waves are decaying much faster over a distance. Also, when you Make up stories about explosions that do not make sounds, do not show blast waves, and only result in some low frequency rumbling, you of course need to demonstrate that these exist, and of course demonstrate how it can be used to take down a building. Making up things just so you can keep believing in your fantasy is called a delusion.

Originally posted by LaBTop
-PLB-, it is a well known fact in seismic research circles, that a high velocity explosive coupled to the ground, or via steel or concrete beams or columns to the ground, exerts a far greater seismic signal amplitude to the underlaying bedrock, than a totally naturally occurring gravitational collapse following after the explosive event.

The debris that is on its way down, impacting still intact parts of the building is very, very slow compared to the very, very fast impact of gas, super-hot plasma and metal parts that shear through thus blown-up massive steel columns.
The resulting seismic magnitude of the explosive signal is far stronger than the resulting magnitude of all the later "slowly" collapsing columns, beams and floors. Just as you can see for yourself in the seismogram from LDEO.
You would have found that wisdom, when you had followed my advice to first Search for my former, years old already, seismic and explosive threads and posts here at ATS.

Originally posted by -PLB-
-SNIP-

Making up things just so you can keep believing in your fantasy is called a delusion.

Well, it has been firmly established that Labtop certainly has delusions. They are all well documented here. He delves deeply in subjects he knows nothing about and reaches conclusions that seem to indicate he is smarter than the experts who have intimate knowledge of the same material. This seismic data is no secret. It has been examined to death by true experts in the field. The problem is in the vast amount of trivia that he's misinterpreting. For example, attempting to establish the exact timing of a photograph with any degree of precision to the second seems to be one of the odd balls out here in addition to the time for the traveling of the sound waves from Manhattan to the Seismic site. I can't speak for everyone else, but I trust the numerous scientists who have examined this data as opposed to a know poseur on the internet.

Labtop, you have stated that you are an honest truther. If so, then why did you abandon the ridiculous NOC thread in which you were conclusively proven wrong in numerous ways. An honest person would admit their mistakes, correct them, and then perhaps apologize for misleading people. That has not happened, you simply disappeared and totally abandoned that thread to reappear here again weeks later with more of the same... What's different this time?

Delete - accidental hangfire..

reply to post by LaBTop


You have failed to prove your credentials in the topic.

Anyone can come here and claim something. But without any proof I will have to conclude you don’t know what you are talking about.

reply to post by LaBTop

The same goes for Alfie, however his answers are already offered on a plate in my first posts.
Seismic signals travel through the New York State bedrock, the 34 km from Manhattan to LDEO Palisades at a speed of 2 km per second, period.

Really? Prove it.

Solidly proved during hundred years of seismic research in that region.

Hundreds of years of seismic research? That would mean at least 200 years - so please show us where the seismic data for say, 1804.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by LaBTop

 

You have failed to prove your credentials in the topic.

Anyone can come here and claim something. But without any proof I will have to conclude you don’t know what you are talking about.

This is the problem with the world..without "credentials" your ideas are deemed meaningless. When someone trots out their credentials..it only tells me that they don't have a clue what they are talking about and need their "credentials" to convince me.

Peace

reply to post by LaBTop


Sadly, I thought all of it was conspiracy theory junk until I saw a video of WTC 7 about a year ago showing, unequivocally, that the windows were blowing out in sync like a controlled demo. Now, like some have suggested, no one really cares so long after the fact. But it does make you wonder about how crooked our government is.

reply to post by Reheat


Because you are one of my top twenty suspects of having hacked my ATS account password here half of January, and publicize it on some upload site, together with a bus load of other valued ATS members their passwords. And to wipe part of my 9/11 research from my computer.

As most old members know by now, I prepare my posts in advance, and then post them at once, to spare my threads from the same stupid one line in-between posts you see in this thread also shoveled in by clearly non 9/11 researchers.

I had about 1 gigabyte of Wordpad text windows with loads of photos and drawings saved in my computer, and to be safe, also duplicated it on an external memory stick, that's two different sources.
And a small part of it contained a full rebuttal of your frivolous ASCE-arguments in that thread you now talk about, it proved to you that the ASCE Pentagon paper did contain everything you did not wanted to read, namely that their own researchers were only allowed a whopping 4 hours to visit the site and do some measurements, AFTER the whole damn site was meticulously cleaned by the military, so they had no chance at all to find a shimmer of an airplane part at all.
All researchers expressed their doubt about the scientifically worthiness of their own report, in that same report.
You only have to read it's own pages, but you will deny that, because that's what a good JREF'er does all the time.

Thus I could not react because the same guy who hacked my and other members their account, obviously also had access to my computer, because when I tried to log in at ATS again after I had ended my prepared posts, my saved Wordpad window AND my attached memory stick were suddenly EMPTY.

And I got a message from the Board staff here that I was one of the affected and hacked members. So I got a new password from Djarums, an administrator here. I told him what happened to my GB's of hard work, and I really hope they will get a hold on that piss poor character who did this.

I had made half a GB worth of posts in advance, to also show you and your mean buddies at JREF that the gouge in the generator trailer roof you so friendly posted to impress me in that thread, in fact boosted my arguments about a NoC approach and following impact of AA77, since the angle of the gouge indicates clearly a 70° to 80° angle against the west wall line of the Pentagon, and not the damn 42° angle of attack that that piece of dis-info report by the ASCE organization, lead by the same military fellow that lead the Oklahoma bombing dis-investigation, came up with.
They had to, because the internal damage they found after the military clean up, and the 5 downed light poles predicted that 42° flight path by a SoC incoming plane. They had to follow the official line-lie.

But the NoC witnesses broke up their little fairy tale, and started me and a lot of other members, to doubt that SoC official line.
And thus, your posted gouge with that 70° to 80° angle of attack of the incoming plane proves that a NoC flight path ending at the second floor slab in the west wall is not only possible, but indeed happened.
It was either caused by one of the sharp rimmed outer guide rails for the right wing slaps, 80 cm under that right wing, or by the right wing tip.
Probst was the man who told in that ASCE report that he saw that the right wing tip slashed through the generator trailer.

Look what type of slander you JREF people use all the time, it's so disgusting any normal person has to puke when they have to read it, and it is now aided by cowards who use their IT knowledge to stop neutral 9/11 investigators like me from posting more and more evidence, every day that passes.

You will not succeed, Wisdom will Win in the end.

reply to post by spav5

This is the problem with the world..without "credentials" your ideas are deemed meaningless.

No, it means without credentials you need to present a more complete argument.

When someone trots out their credentials..it only tells me that they don't have a clue what they are talking about and need their "credentials" to convince me.

Really? So if someone presents their professional engineering license together with their argument it means less than someone presenting the same argument that has no professional education or training in engineering?

Ok. Im assuming youre excited about this and its your "thing".Youve way too much time on your hands over something few care about now...and will never be settled.

There was a second gunman who killed Kennedy too....it doesnt matter. Even if there was or wasnt.

This will be hashed, bashed and re-hashed over and over and people are just tired of hacking on about the subject.

False flag, black tag...tag youre it. Just like all the other "conspiracies". Put a few years between the event...and people just dont care so much anymore.

Even IF you are completely right? Folks....me too...for the most part...have moved on and dont care...because it doesnt matter. If you think it does.....?????

Irrefutable? So what? Its not like Im going to bed tonight saying "OH WOW! Finally! I can sleep!"

Originally posted by dayve

Originally posted by spav5

Originally posted by dayve
wth? i think now, even if bush said he flew the plane himself i could care less....

I think you mean..couldn't care less..but the rest of us would like to see justice served. And if not justice..at least the truth.

Peace

I think i had it right the first time around, i could care less.. I'd rather know where carmen sandiego went with my wallet.... It was 11 years ago and people are done mourning, i think the "truth" should be left alone. We got the hijackers leave it at that.

The expression meaning that you don't care at all is "I couldn't care less." What I wanted to address is the fact that you think since it was 11 years ago that its over and people are done mourning. Regardless of if Osama was responsible, the US was responsible, or if the US had prior knowledge and did nothing, thousands of innocent lives were still lost that day. There are still 9/11 heros out there and many family members who will never be over the loss of their loved one. It is very ignorant to say people are done mourning.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Where did you come up with that wisdom?
Everybody here knows by now, that WTC 7 was a bottom up implosion.
While WTC 1 and 2 were top down implosions.

reply to post by LaBTop


Hacking your ATS account or any account will not change/delete 1 byte of data on your computer.
You should know this already.