Koran Burning Incident and Response

Regardless of anyone's feelings in here about Islam, including some of the ignorant bigotry and racist comments by narrow minded people unaware of the many good people who happen to be Muslim, for our people over there to NOT know that burning a Koran is a giant insult is incredible. No matter that some people harbor bad feelings against ALL Muslims for the actions of a relative few, to burn Korans inside a country that is 99.99 percent Muslim, is just asking for problems and inflaming already difficult relations with the people all around our people there.

For anyone over there to not have been well indoctrinated prior to getting in-country, on how to conduct oneself in a different culture with a most likely different religion, is inexcusable on the part of the superior officers or people in charge. For those who have been warned, taught, indoctrinated, and otherwise told not to behave this way, the deaths of the soldiers recently killed over this situation, in addition to any new deaths that may occur, is on their heads. Punishment IS in order for this totally stupid behavior, for all those responsible.

It is actions such as this that create new terrorists, just as all the accidental civilian casualties, avoidable or unavoidable. Imagine losing your family to a terrorist group or soldiers of a different nation. What would Your Response Be? You lose your wife and children and in-laws and friends, your home and business..... you just might take up weapons and join a group yourself.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. .

They KNEW what they were burning. Why burn any Afghan books? In a country as poor as that books are needed for education. They should have DONATED the books to a school. Heads should roll and the man in charge should lose his commission.

You cannot tell me that an intelligence officer who reads arabic does not go over what is found in the cells of prisoners.

reply to post by jaxnmarko
Well said, jax. I won't sanction any one person or group's stupid and wrong behaviours, but it would behoove us all to remember that we're all human and have more in common than we generally like to think, and that all ideologies (be they religious, political, social, or whatever) have their quirky sensibilities.

And before I get slammed as a muslim apologist, I'll clarify that I'm a HUMAN apologist, and will equally defend christians, americans, iraqis, or anyone else equally, just as I'll point out their flaws equally. I've just had enough of my own american justice system here at home to let things go without any proper balance figured into the equation for a fair hearing on all sides, as best I can.

We shouldn't even be over there in the first place, but it is what it is at this point. We have obviously failed at winning over any of people there, time to get the F out while we can. That being said, I believe that these people need to get out of the stone ages and put religion in its proper context. A burnt book, no matter what it is, is not worth any human lives.

Well said, OP.

But what if it goes beyond ignorance? Perhaps the burnings were done as a sick joke, the actions of an immature youth? Or, and this thought is sickening, what if the Koran was burned to get exactly that reaction? The MSM gets another story about crazy Islamic extremists....and the masses find their xenophobic views confirmed.

reply to post by groingrinder


first off all, koran is not a teaching book, there is no math, physics or any science in it... it's just a book, like bible for example... think and you will see, burning paper is nothing wrong!
we of course run into a problem if you burn something others see as divine justice, that's actually the problem we have here...

reply to post by jaxnmarko




BOO HOO!


who cares... its just a bunch of paper created out of trees, mass produced and printed to brainwash the already feeble minded arab nation.

im so sick and tired of the bs with religion, its sickening, " oh no he burned 300 pages of paper, lets get him and murder him and drag his body through the streets!, im sure this is what allah would want"

enough already, as long as you believe in god, and know his love and teachings in your mind, who cares about some book...

its not like it was blessed in mecca or, some ritual was performed to make it "sacred"

the koran, torah, bible, etc...are all MASS PRODUCED... by MAN, in factories


grow up

reply to post by jaxnmarko


What is it with these extreme right-wing politicos and their desire to burn books?

Originally posted by ooYODAoo
reply to post by jaxnmarko

 

BOO HOO!


who cares... its just a bunch of paper created out of trees, mass produced and printed to brainwash the already feeble minded arab nation.

im so sick and tired of the bs with religion, its sickening, " oh no he burned 300 pages of paper, lets get him and murder him and drag his body through the streets!, im sure this is what allah would want"

enough already, as long as you believe in god, and know his love and teachings in your mind, who cares about some book...

its not like it was blessed in mecca or, some ritual was performed to make it "sacred"

the koran, torah, bible, etc...are all MASS PRODUCED... by MAN, in factories


grow up

edit on 23-2-2012 by ooYODAoo because: (no reason given)

AMEN! brother!

if people took the time and energy they spend on hating each other, and killing and turned it into something positive, i think the world would have been a better place by now...

but theres only so much that can be done with the brain capacity of the masses...they will never learn

reply to post by ooYODAoo
Grow up? Paper it might be, mass produced sure, but it's about principle. Imagine if occupiers of our country mass-burned a pile of bibles? So many Christians would flip a lid.

You might not fully grasp the seriousness of this situation. The OP is correct in saying this could very literally create additional "terrorists", and lead to additional loss of life among NATO forces further down the road. In a sense, this is indirect friendly fire. There has already been Afghani fatalities as a result of this.

The parties will most likely see disciplinary actions as a result... I guarantee you the chain of command involved are extremely concerned about this.

well said OP ...

however your sentiments will end up drowned out by the narrowminded , hateful , prejudiced and war mongering fools who see nothing wrong in committing such despicable acts ...

S&F for having had the courage to speak out in favour of whats right rather than spouting ignorance and hate.

So, my question then is: How does one of the Holy men from their religion dispose of books that are no longer usable?

Would it have been alright for say a Muslim Holy person (sorry, I don't know the titles) to dispose of the books in the same way?

reply to post by jaxnmarko


I don't own a copy of the koran,I do have it on my computer.

Maybe when these "radical" muslims stop burning our flag,
and our Bible.Maybe we will extend the same courtesy to them.

www.liveleak.com...

Originally posted by KrzYma
reply to post by groingrinder

 

first off all, koran is not a teaching book, there is no math, physics or any science in it... it's just a book, like bible for example... think and you will see, burning paper is nothing wrong!
we of course run into a problem if you burn something others see as divine justice, that's actually the problem we have here...

Here is something to think about. It contains................wait for it..............wait for it................words. Words that can teach somebody how to read because they are interested in the contents of the book.

Just because I can jam you up and make you mad with my behavior does not make it right or just that I can do so. People knew what this would cause and did it anyway!

We should not be in Afghanistan in the first place.

Even still: Apparently, there isn't any sort of agreement among Muslims about how to dispose of a quran. Burning is considered an acceptable way to respectfully dispose of a quran by some Muslims. Then there is the whole thing that a quran translated into other languages (i.e. not written in Arabic) isn't a quran anyway. So, that one pastor who was going to burn copies of the quran a while back and started a riot over it, wasn't burning an actual quran (in Muslim eyes) anyway.

I have a huge problem when people spend more time admonishing the military for disposing of allegedly defaced religious texts (by Muslims) than laying the blame for the crazy on the people going around killing others. The motive of the burners in question is moot (though if it really was to be intentionally offensive, then that is also wrong). However, to hold the former group more accountable than the latter (who caused way more harm) makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't believe any harm was intended in the way they chose to dispose of the qurans. It sounds like the prisoners were defacing their quarans to write notes to each other anyway.

Is it okay to lay the blame on people performing abortions if a Christian kills an abortion doctor or bombs an abortion clinic? Obviously, the feelings of the Christian in question are along the same lines as the Muslims in this situation. I see little difference in the two scenarios, actually.

blog.barrypearson.co.uk...

And, the following is varied commentary from Muslims regarding this matter (burning is considered a last option). However, as none of this features in the quran itself, then this matter is far from dogma in Islam (by even their own standards).

The conclusion is, there are two methods of disposing an unusable Qur’an and Islamic literature:

(1) Wrapping them in a piece of cloth or something pure and burying them respectfully in a place where people normally do not walk upon.

(2) Fastening the items to something heavy such as a stone and placing it respectfully in flowing river.

If the above-mentioned two methods are not possible to implement, only then will it be permitted to burn the Holy Scriptures and then bury the resulting ash or drop the ash in a flowing river.
www.inter-islam.org...

Just face it: They aren't happy we're there in the first place. People always look for others to blame for their own problems and our military is an obvious scapegoat and actual contributor to some of those problems. They really didn't seem to need an excuse to go crazy and take offense over something, which I believe was done out of ignorance in the first place.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by jaxnmarko

 

I don't own a copy of the koran,I do have it on my computer.

Maybe when these "radical" muslims stop burning our flag,
and our Bible.Maybe we will extend the same courtesy to them.

www.liveleak.com...

edit on 23-2-2012 by mamabeth because: added

Because that is just the kind of mature, educated, people we are. Instead of showing them how respectful we are of their culture, race, and religion we just resort to the behavior of thugs on the school playground.

Originally posted by ooYODAoo
reply to post by jaxnmarko

 

BOO HOO!


who cares... its just a bunch of paper created out of trees, mass produced and printed to brainwash the already feeble minded arab nation.

im so sick and tired of the bs with religion, its sickening, " oh no he burned 300 pages of paper, lets get him and murder him and drag his body through the streets!, im sure this is what allah would want"

enough already, as long as you believe in god, and know his love and teachings in your mind, who cares about some book...

its not like it was blessed in mecca or, some ritual was performed to make it "sacred"

the koran, torah, bible, etc...are all MASS PRODUCED... by MAN, in factories


grow up

edit on 23-2-2012 by ooYODAoo because: (no reason given)

Ahhh, but you're wrong. It's not just a collection of paper to them. It's a symbol of their faith and culture. By defiling their most sacred book, the soldiers have basically flipped an entire culture the bird.

reply to post by Sek82


Most Christians only give lip service to the Bible. Even more do not live the principles taught by Jesus.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by Sek82

 

Most Christians only give lip service to the Bible. Even more do not live the principles taught by Jesus.

In Christianity, burning is the acceptable way of disposing of an old bible. Book burning is not necessarily inherently disrespectful.

It is heart warming to read your thread S&F You show respect for all cultures and religion your fellow Americans should be proud of you as an excellent example of one culture understanding and having empathy with another.

I know many US members naturally try to defend their compatriots when it comes to issues such as this however, some do demonstrate a total lack of empathy and understanding such as you have shown and are then shocked when negative threads are created - demonstrating a Paranoia that is not justified. Sometimes they have to swallow the truth - we all do.

Many people who post don't realise that they are representing the Country to which they belong and should give due consideration to their fellow citizens who don't necessarily agree with them hence, show a poor example.

You Sir/Madam show a level of intelligence and forethought that needs to be demonstrated more often and clearly points the way for some members who defend first and think later.

Excellent Thread you have restored my opinion of Mr Average USA - we forget that though ATS has a huge following - not all citizens of America are here to speak for themselves.

Just wish those who demonstrate a total lack of understanding would follow your lead.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.