BREAKING NEWS! Anonymous hacks greek ministry! Threatens to whip away all citizen debt

Originally posted by conar
whip away all citizen debt, do it!

And I'm looking at your avatar and wondering why you would have such a childlike view of the world where you don't take or accept any responsibility for your own situation - actually, didn't take long to figure it out. You take on a mortgage - who is responsible for paying it? Take on a credit card - who is responsible for paying for it?

The answer is YOU! Wiping out all debt will bankrupt the country even further, are you people on here really so naive that you can't see that? I'd love to have all my debts cleared too but frankly I live in the real world.

Originally posted by DrNotforhire
I hope they do it just to prove they can do something besides being nuances

seriously, you guys have high hopes... this is not a movie

It's not a movie is it, so to remove the people of Greece's debts to either private or public lenders (as in tax) will mean that those companies or the government would suddenly see its reserves and future reserves develop a huge hole. Public services would be affected as they would be no money to pay employees. Utilities would be affected - no money to pay for streetlights. sewage work etc. Private companies would be hit hard as credit lines would be cut due to lack of funds.

Like you say, it's not a movie so think about the real consequences.

reply to post by something wicked


Oh you mean a melt down... after a recession and after a depression

Greece melting down... I wish the EU would just kick them out already... Send all anon then and shut down the internet from the rest of the world... send the liberals over there and call it a day...

then that'd really be a movie a reallllly good comedy

Originally posted by PoeteMaudit
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

They don't want austerity measures?

Well then, why don't you explain to us who don't share your wonderful grasp of finance, from where a state up to its ears in maturing debt that it could never even hope to repay obtains the capital with which it to fund the 'government spending' of socialism. As further debt from the creditors it can't repay? As daylight robbery of the citizenry of Western Europeans nations? As taxes from a population that doesn't pay taxes and produces so little that could be taxed in the first place? Or from the magical money tree, perhaps?

The 'Greeks' voted for the governments that borrowed and spent the nation into financial ruin. The 'Greeks' endorsed the ideology of social liberalism preached by these politicians. The 'Greeks' participated in the political system of a parliamentary democracy run by oligarchical 'parties'. The 'Greeks' expressed no dissatisfaction with this state of affairs until the cold, hard fact of 'no free lunch' reared its ugly head at last and their little socialist state blew up in their faces. Now we're meant to believe that the ones to blame for it all are the creditors?

edit on 24-2-2012 by PoeteMaudit because: (no reason given)

I'm sure that the only solution to an economist-minded person is austerity, because they only care about finance and money with no interest in the actual political situation that devised this whole mess. As I already explained, the proposed solution is austerity, but economists refuse to admit that austerity is nothing more than neo-imperialism.

ollncasion-
Why are you trying to pass of an "Economic Times" article as a Financial Times source in your post? Think I am too stupid to notice the difference?

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I'm sure that the only solution to an economist-minded person is austerity, because they only care about finance and money with no interest in the actual political situation that devised this whole mess. As I already explained, the proposed solution is austerity, but economists refuse to admit that austerity is nothing more than neo-imperialism.

Be careful there, your brush strokes wide.

Austerity is simply the policy of reduced spending.

The current trend of using the term 'austerity' to describe budget cuts specifically to benefits and public spending is a partisan attempt at votes. Nothing more, nothing less.

The targets of austerity will almost always be the largest items in the budget. They have the most 'room' to accept cuts.

For the US that would be military and discretionary funding, for Greece it is social programs.

Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I'm sure that the only solution to an economist-minded person is austerity, because they only care about finance and money with no interest in the actual political situation that devised this whole mess. As I already explained, the proposed solution is austerity, but economists refuse to admit that austerity is nothing more than neo-imperialism.

Be careful there, your brush strokes wide.

Austerity is simply the policy of reduced spending.

The current trend of using the term 'austerity' to describe budget cuts specifically to benefits and public spending is a partisan attempt at votes. Nothing more, nothing less.

The targets of austerity will almost always be the largest items in the budget. They have the most 'room' to accept cuts.

For the US that would be military and discretionary funding, for Greece it is social programs.

The whole point of cutting back on government spending and regulation is so private interests can buy up the void left behind. In the case of Greece, these are French and German corporations.

nightbringr-
You may be a political idealist Dimitri, but you have no idea about finances.

Yeah, there's a reason for that- politics is essential in life, money isn't. All money does is create disparity between people. Ultimately, money is obsolete between two people with a conscience.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
The whole point of cutting back on government spending and regulation is so private interests can buy up the void left behind. In the case of Greece, these are French and German corporations.

Whoa now. You have two things mixed together there.

Cutting back on spending is austerity.

Cutting back on regulation is political.

As for the French and German's, Greece should have thought of that before they borrowed French and German money. I have no sympathy for people when their loan shark breaks their legs. Only an idiot deals with loan sharks in the first place.

Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
The whole point of cutting back on government spending and regulation is so private interests can buy up the void left behind. In the case of Greece, these are French and German corporations.

Whoa now. You have two things mixed together there.

Cutting back on spending is austerity.

Cutting back on regulation is political.

As for the French and German's, Greece should have thought of that before they borrowed French and German money. I have no sympathy for people when their loan shark breaks their legs. Only an idiot deals with loan sharks in the first place.

I know what I am talking about. Finance capitalism works hand in hand with politics. It's called imperialism.

Is Lenin not required reading for most people on this site? I highly suggest it.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I know what I am talking about. Finance capitalism works hand in hand with politics. It's called imperialism.

Is Lenin not required reading for most people on this site? I highly suggest it.

If you think that a financial mechanism is imperialism, I would say that you don't know what you are talking about.

Economics does not dictate intent. Any financial mechanism, if used properly, could be used for imperialism, including no interest loans.

As for Lenin, how did that work out for Russia in the long term?

Capitalism isn't perfect, but it is the best thing we have for now.

Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I know what I am talking about. Finance capitalism works hand in hand with politics. It's called imperialism.

Is Lenin not required reading for most people on this site? I highly suggest it.

If you think that a financial mechanism is imperialism, I would say that you don't know what you are talking about.

Economics does not dictate intent. Any financial mechanism, if used properly, could be used for imperialism, including no interest loans.

As for Lenin, how did that work out for Russia in the long term?

Capitalism isn't perfect, but it is the best thing we have for now.

I would say that you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Financial capitalism is imperialism. Perhaps if you bother to read Lenin instead of hearing typical things about him, you might learn something. His work is over a century old, yet still as relevant today as it was then.

"Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism" by Lenin. I'm currently reading it now. Enjoy.

Originally posted by torqpoc
Working hours equates to nothing i'm afraid. I am more productive working 30 hours than most working 60.

So you base the productivity of other countries on your own productivity? That's laughable. Whatever you do for a living is irrelevant. You conclude that they are lazy - these common statistics prove otherwise.

Originally posted by torqpoc
And yeah I have been to Greece, and their architecture is from a different era, don't make me laugh.

Different era? What, have you just followed the other blind tourists to the obvious tourist spots? Haven't you actually moved around? Or did you just follow your tour guide? Your conclusion is very stupid and not true.
If you actually saw the country more - you'd know of the engineering they are capable of.
I cannot be bothered finding more images, but just look up "greek modern architecture". It's a search term even a 10 year old could come up with, so i don't doubt your ability to do the same.

Originally posted by torqpoc
I'll stick to my realism, you stick to your propaganda, ok? Deal? Cosy now are we? *grin*

Save your childish grin. Stats and graphs from the organisation for economic co-operation and development are propoganda are they?
I've given you actual resources, that you probably haven't bothered taking a look at.
Your view on "realism" is misguided.

If you were realistic, your replies wouldn't resemble a 5 year old who's just learnt about greece.

Folks, sorry but there is no easy solution. Live within your means is an impossibility at this time. Even if you don't have any personal debt, you country is running up debt on your behalf. It's unsustainable. That means something will run out eventually. Money, resources or life.

Greece has done what was designed to happen by the banks. The exact same thing would happen to the US if the banks recalled the debt. There is no possible way for the US to pay 16 Trillion to any bank. Not enough money exists. The elite are fabricating the recall of debt on Greece as a distraction to us to instill fear of what could happen if we revolt and move from being obedient workers.

Nobody wants civil war, but the propaganda produced by the planned failure of Greece is an example to all the European and North American public to stay the course and don't fight back or you'll have bloodshed and tears.

Fear not the inevitable change that will come. Greet it with open arms. The longer you put off the change the harder the transition will be.

I sure can't wait for the 1000 years of peace after this Armageddon gets over!

Hitler had a solution in 1935. He told the rest of the world to take a run and jump, because Germany refused to continue making ruinous reparations payments.

Whilst I am no fan of Hitler or the Nazis, initially Hitler took the right steps and then embarked on persecution of the Jews and political opponents on the pathway to total war.

Maybe somebody in Greece with enough balls will stand up and tell global capital markets to wear the responsibility for creating easy credit and attempting to profiteer from poor countries. Instead of the poor reforming it is time the money lenders reformed their greed and gross speculation.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
Hitler had a solution in 1935. He told the rest of the world to take a run and jump, because Germany refused to continue making ruinous reparations payments.

Whilst I am no fan of Hitler or the Nazis, initially Hitler took the right steps and then embarked on persecution of the Jews and political opponents on the pathway to total war.

Maybe somebody in Greece with enough balls will stand up and tell global capital markets to wear the responsibility for creating easy credit and attempting to profiteer from poor countries. Instead of the poor reforming it is time the money lenders reformed their greed and gross speculation.

And now you know why Hitler is demonized as being the biblical antichrist or something. While I agree that genocide is always an evil thing to accomplish, it was his policies that evolved Germany (raped by neighboring rivals after its WWI defeat) from collapse to world-class power in a manner of two decades that is a threat to financial imperialists.

The ironic thing is that the Nazis and Soviets both were enemies of financial imperialism, and they ended up enemies themselves because the Nazis desperately wanted Soviet oil fields.

No offence but this just sounds like alot of BS at best.

First of anyone or entity a major company/bank has backups out the ying-yang. ESPECIALLY when someone owes them money. They have been doing this for Hmmmmmmm DECADES.

Second most theft from banks is by hackers/scammers done to INDIVIDUALS who they get information from. This has to be done on a person to person basis. Hard as it is for their ego a mass theft from a bank is almost impossible in the best situations. Otherwise why would identity thieves need to get information on each person they rob? As for erasing everyones debt, see first point.

Lastly people need to be VERY AFRAID of these people and trying to catch them, not cheering them.

Why?

Because unlike revealing corruption or catching crooks in the act (which are noble causes) the fact is they are targeting sites that having opinions they don't like and denying people who want/need those sites access to them.

All well and good if you believe in their cause, but what if you don't? What if your some small business just staying afloat and these putz deny you access to paypal? Those employees you pay and your family need that income.

Who made them the kings/lords/law/ judge and jury?

Anyone ever reads ANIMAL FARM or 1984 by George Orwell?
Or even watch congress, senate, or your local political leaders?

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

What makes them immune or is their ANOMIMOUS Check and balance?

Just food for thought

I call total BS on all of this.
a) For one thing there are doubts whether it is the original anonymous group.
b) I don't think it is possible anyway
c) We are now on the 27th February - it hasn't happened.

In any case it's naive to think that this wouldn't in fact harm Greek citizens. This threat was penned by someone who has no idea of the financial system. If they did have any understanding/real capability, they would know there are better ways...

So Anon is becoming the new project mayhem form Fight Club?

I have to say even though I don't have any debt(I'm cash and carry or check card only) I wouldn't mind seeing the private citizen debt in America wiped out.
I doubt it would be as easy as hitting one or even 5 banks of servers there has got to be a paper trail somewhere.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I know what I am talking about. Finance capitalism works hand in hand with politics. It's called imperialism.

Is Lenin not required reading for most people on this site? I highly suggest it.

Lets spin this around then and simply ask you what it is you would do to get the Greeks out of trouble if you had the power? Im assuming ditching the euro and going it alone, with balancing the budget (read: AUSTERITY) within a year or two to avoid mass starvation?

Or do you suggest going back to bartering since you have voiced on this thread more than once that money seems to be your root of all evil. Funny, i dont remember Lenin outlawing money or trade on the financial world market.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Maybe somebody in Greece with enough balls will stand up and tell global capital markets to wear the responsibility for creating easy credit and attempting to profiteer from poor countries. Instead of the poor reforming it is time the money lenders reformed their greed and gross speculation.

Im not sure how the government officials of Greece were "forced" to take these loans. As they were not forced, the sole responsibility lies on the Greek politicians and the Greek citizens. After all, they are the ones who must hold their politicians to task. You off all people Dimitri would tell us "Hands off Iran! They are their own country, let them deal with their problems!". Why does this not hold true for Greece then?

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
And now you know why Hitler is demonized as being the biblical antichrist or something. While I agree that genocide is always an evil thing to accomplish, it was his policies that evolved Germany (raped by neighboring rivals after its WWI defeat) from collapse to world-class power in a manner of two decades that is a threat to financial imperialists.

Geez, you dont think their campaign of military conquest and annexation across Europe and Africa had anything to do with that, hmmmm? Funny, the Western powers only attacked Germany when they attacked Poland, not when they thumbed their noses at reparation payments. Hell, Chamberlin would have happily watched while Europe burned, all the while appeasing Hitler. Tell yourself it was all about money if you want, i think others seriously feared living under the Nazis, and rightfully so.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I know what I am talking about. Finance capitalism works hand in hand with politics. It's called imperialism.

Is Lenin not required reading for most people on this site? I highly suggest it.

Lets spin this around then and simply ask you what it is you would do to get the Greeks out of trouble if you had the power? Im assuming ditching the euro and going it alone, with balancing the budget (read: AUSTERITY) within a year or two to avoid mass starvation?

Or do you suggest going back to bartering since you have voiced on this thread more than once that money seems to be your root of all evil. Funny, i dont remember Lenin outlawing money or trade on the financial world market.

Why is it up to me to make such serious decisions regarding the future of another country? I am not an architect of Greece.

And no, I wouldn't abolish money. That is a retarded notion. There is simply no way for any country to maintain sovereignty without some kind of play in international markets, so money is required (unless we want to take into account something like a military fortress country).

My solution to any economic problem is nationalism. Nationalize all assets, establish internal stability, and then open up to the world again. Opening yourself up to "help" from much stronger countries when you are at your weakest is beyond stupid and borders on pure desperation where perhaps only your small elite benefit while the rest don't.

And you think Greeks will starve without neo-liberal austerity? I believe exactly the opposite, and so do they hence why they riot everyday against this austerity.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Maybe somebody in Greece with enough balls will stand up and tell global capital markets to wear the responsibility for creating easy credit and attempting to profiteer from poor countries. Instead of the poor reforming it is time the money lenders reformed their greed and gross speculation.

Im not sure how the government officials of Greece were "forced" to take these loans. As they were not forced, the sole responsibility lies on the Greek politicians and the Greek citizens. After all, they are the ones who must hold their politicians to task. You off all people Dimitri would tell us "Hands off Iran! They are their own country, let them deal with their problems!". Why does this not hold true for Greece then?

Why are you bitching at me? I didn't even write what you quoted here, sy.gunson did

Geez, you dont think their campaign of military conquest and annexation across Europe and Africa had anything to do with that, hmmmm? Funny, the Western powers only attacked Germany when they attacked Poland, not when they thumbed their noses at reparation payments. Hell, Chamberlin would have happily watched while Europe burned, all the while appeasing Hitler. Tell yourself it was all about money if you want, i think others seriously feared living under the Nazis, and rightfully so.

I never said it was about money?

In fact, I said that Hitler is demonized after the fact. Before Europe declared war on Germany, the US and the UK were backing Hitler so he could fight communism on the front lines instead of them. The other europeans were scared of the Nazis, and rightfully so considering the Nazi ideal of re-establishing the Germanic Empire. France was especially scared, to be expected considering what they did to Germany after WWI.