The Top 10% of income earners paid 71% of federal income tax

Originally posted by decepticonLaura
quite apart from all those tasty lies, lies, and damned statistics,

This slogan is always used when someone disagrees with a statistic. If the statistic conformed to your beliefs
you'd make no mention of it.

Everytime anyone posts any statistic at all and someone disagrees with it, he`ll blurt out "lies, lies and damned statistics".

blaming "the rich" or "the poor" is not going to help.

Im not blaming anyone for anything. I posted because Im curious about what people think about our tax system.

Its been an interesting read thus far.

Originally posted by nuclear12346
They need to pay MORE!!!!! MUCH MUCH more.

Stealing from the productive and those who have more .. simply because they have more.
Sour grapes. Jealousy. You have no right to take what belongs to others.
They earn it. They have a right to keep it. Otherwise, you are advocating slavery to the state.
These people work for their income and they invest their money which in turn helps us.
You want to put some arbitrary cap on that .. essentially make them work for nothing at some point.

SLAVERY TO THE STATE.

reply to post by FlyersFan


You make it sound like the wealthy create that wealth without the benefits that taxation have given the wealthy. Taxation has made it possible for an environment to be created where wealth can be made in such large quantities.

Imagine America without a military, or without public roads or education. Would it still have been possible to gain wealth if these things had not been paid for by taxation?

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
The thing is, the top 10% of Americans are some of the richest and most comfortable people on the planet. Millions around the world would give their right arm to be part of that 10%. The fact you can become so wealthy in America does not happen in a vacuum. It has relied on the infrastructure, education system and military defense that has allowed people to be come so wealthy. All these things need to be paid for with taxation. So the fact the 10% pay the most should not be viewed as a problem, rather the price you pay for being in a very exclusive group of human beings on the planet.

Nice to have a more moderate sounding poster around.

I dont mind the rich paying more taxes. But if it goes up any further than it already is, I do mind. Taxing the rich should not be the only solution that comes to mind for saving the economy.

Do all of you people whinging really understand how the system really works. Do you realise that a significant proportion of the wealthy assets are in boring things like shares,their own business, properties both residental and industrial and bonds etc If you redistribute the wealth who will invest in these things. The poor do not own anything of much value. The things they buy are generally fast depreciating and of little real value Eg plasma tvs and mobile phones. The poor do not usually value education, do not plan for the future ( Eg saving) and do not know how to cultivate contacts or have very much people skills. The middle class generally invest in things ( homes etc) that are for personal use and are not productive but generally do not loose a lot of their value as well as some of the assets that the poor invest in. Many of the middle class definetely value education, try to gain at least limited people skills, limited planning skills and save a little for a rainy day. The rich on the other hand plan for the long term, place huge importance on developing their people skills and planning skills and any other skills that they think they might need. The rich place value on education to the point that they will find it useful in the completion of their plan but not just to provide well paid employment. The rich invest in assets that will provide them with a return on their investment ( Eg businesses and shares)
A final question how many of you would be prepared to invest 20% of your income as well as several hours a week studying and learning about and tracking your investments. If you did this over a long period of time you would not be poor at the end of your life.

Originally posted by snowcrash911
how about a flat salary?

Now we're all paying an equal amount of income tax.... Problem solved.

We're all about equality right?

The idea to give everyone equal salary, regardless of their contribution, regardless of merit, regardless of education, regardless of their work undermines diversity and ambition. Even the attempt to implement such a society will cause disasterous results.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
The thing is, the top 10% of Americans are some of the richest and most comfortable people on the planet. Millions around the world would give their right arm to be part of that 10%. The fact you can become so wealthy in America does not happen in a vacuum. It has relied on the infrastructure, education system and military defense that has allowed people to be come so wealthy. All these things need to be paid for with taxation. So the fact the 10% pay the most should not be viewed as a problem, rather the price you pay for being in a very exclusive group of human beings on the planet.

Nice to have a more moderate sounding poster around.

I dont mind the rich paying more taxes. But if it goes up any further than it already is, I do mind. Taxing the rich should not be the only solution that comes to mind for saving the economy.

Why? It was giving the breaks in the first place that led to the downfall of our economy. When the upper class paid as much as everyone else the economy always does better.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
You make it sound like ...

No. Not at all. Look at what I was responding to. People screaming that the more someone makes, the higher percentage they should pay. The fact is that those who make more ALREADY pay more than those who make less. Screaming 'MAKE THEM PAY MORE' is the same as making them into slaves of the state ... people who will work and earn nothing for themselves, but instead will earn just for the state. That's simply not fair.

Example ...

Someone earns $150 .... the state takes away $100 and leaves them $50.
Someone earns $75 ... the state takes away $25 and leaves them $50.

What motivation is left for the person who earns $150 Why bother working harder or investing smarter if the state is just going to come along and take it anyways? There is no reason to be more productive than the person doing absolutely nothing and still getting entitlements from the state. (then we'd ALL suffer !!)

The ONLY fair tax is a flat across the board tax. Everyone pays the same percent.
No deductions ... no getting off paying the same percent because you make 'too little'.
No paying a bigger percent because you make more. JUST A FLAT PERCENT TAX.
The same for everyone.

Originally posted by buster2010
Why? It was giving the breaks in the first place that led to the downfall of our economy. When the upper class paid as much as everyone else the economy always does better.

You promote Ron Paul in your Avatar. I recommend you go read some of his books.

The reason I say taxing the rich should not be the only thing that comes to mind for the Government to have more money, is because it undermines other way for the Government to make income. The Government can also make money by saving and by investing and by working.

On a small scale, if you run out of money, do you first think about getting it from someone who has more than you,
or do you think about working?

A state needs a tax income. An economy needs money. For money to be in the economy somebody has to put it in there. People can while and scream all they want, taxes, wages for people to spend, it has to come from somewhere.

Your assets going up, low wages, low taxes, its an Utopia that can not be sustained. You might as well lament the fact that your engine requiers a fuel source. Maybe if not so many people incountry would work for minimum wage and people abroad for even less the money that is put into the system wouldnt have to come from inflation and taxation on those who made profits through low wages. Or we allow the race to the bottom to go unchecked.

Whats that? Prices are falling? Cant sell that condo for half a mill? Nobody has money to buy at the prices you want to sell? Dont like that eithier?

reply to post by Qspeedyrock


correct
if i did these things i would not be poor
but somebody would be
in fact the more money i make the more people have to be poor in return
theres only so much to go around
you make it seem as if everybody can be a millionaire if they try..... things dont work that way resources are limited if you add to one pile you take from another


my solution would be to put a cap on earning say 10 million dollars..... anybody can live more than comfortably the rest of their lives on 10 million dollars and that gives other people a chance to WORK and EARN wealth for themselves

you can work and make money thats fair
but you cant make ALL the money.... thats #ed

Not this junk again......

If someone makes 40,000 and pays 20%, they pay 8,000 in taxes.

If someone makes 1,000,000 and pays 10%, they pay 100,000 in taxes.

If someone makes 1,000,000,000 and pays 5%, they pay 500,000.

It takes over 60 people at 40,000 to match the contribution of the billionaire. However, saying that they billionaire pays too much is kinda like failing 5th grade math.

Since it can be argued that the billionaire is a larger recipient of infrastructure and societal services by virtue of the fact that they make 1,000,000,000 dollars off of it, it is only fair that they also pay 20%.

Do mods troll like this everywhere, or is posting flamebait and then giving the "please explain why you're stupid, I don't get it" passive aggressive response a uniquely ATS thing?

Actually, mods, please delete my account. The type of discussion you generate as mods is nothing more than typical echo chamber crap. If I wanted talking points, I'd go the MSM.

reply to post by buster2010


I agree flat tax across the board, I don't know what percentage we should go with but 15-20% sounds like a good starts....ahhh life without the IRS letters or forms...

Sniper

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I found a chart sourced from the IRS that shows how the top 10% of income earners paid 71% of federal income tax. This is pretty interesting because it would mean that all those calls that the rich should pay more taxes or that they dont pay enough taxes are wrong. The 10%ers seem to be paying plenty of taxes.

Thoughts?

How much percent they pay from their income??
Maybe their income is so big, that they just need to pay 0.5% of their income, to make that numbers that you told.

This smells to disinformation...

The real issue is income inequality. In order to get the top20% of earners you have to include people making 100K:

SIEGEL: Now, let's look at this from the other end. If we take the higher income taxpayers, how much of the income tax do the taxpayers with the highest incomes pay?

Mr. WILLIAMS: Well, if we take a look at people with incomes, say, over $500,000. That's about one percent of all Americans. And the total share of taxes that they pay is about 24 percent. They have about 16 percent, 17 percent of income. They pay about half again that much share of taxes.

SIEGEL: And if we looked at, say, the top 20 percent, the top fifth of all incomes in the U.S., who would that be and how much do they pay?

Mr. WILLIAMS: The top fifth starts a little bit above $100,000. That group makes about 56 percent of all income and pay about 70 percent of all taxes.

--

That means that 80% of Americans earn less than 100K.

You would expect that portion to pay a lot less in taxes because 100K isn't "rich" by any standard.

And guess what those 80% don't all make $99,999. A huge percentage of them are on minimum wage. Trying to sort out the US debt on the back on the minimum wage earners won't work.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


just to clarify again
income /= wealth
so while the top 1% may make 16-17% of all income they make a substantially larger portion of the over all wealth due to investments etc.

There seems to be a few voices of reason, unfortunately, you are being derailed by one word...FAIR. I could use all the statistiscs, or logic, none of that matters...too many people want something for nothing. The tax rates are there for you to see, but since those percentages don't help your argument you move to loopholes...newsflash...we have a progressive tax code...key word progressive. You dont like the deductions, they are there for people that put into the economy. Nothing will ever be good enough. Flat tax...hell yes, but that will never happen as now the close to 50% that pay nothing...would have to pay something. This whole argument starts to sound like a bunch of petty teenagers (it does, I have 2...trust me!)...I want, I want, I want. Awesome...go out and get! Quit being jealous of what others have, or worrying about what others pay, worry about yourself (gasp...so selfish I am). The only person that owes you anything is...you.

Bit of a troll OP TBH

Im sure you are intelligent enough to understand that it is not the total amounnt of tax collected from the top 10% it is the fact that the top 10% often pay a LOWER RATE of tax than the poorest. You know this though and just wanted to troll.

Why are you a forum moderator?

Spin straight from the Heritage Foundation


One can down load a spread sheet of taxes paid from the IRS that shows what income bracket paid what taxes
(last I checked was for 2009)

the median was about $250,000 -- that means those taxpayers that made more than 250,000 paid half of the taxes

those earning less than $250,000 paid the other half

the gross percentage of taxes paid was about 20% for the very top 1%'ers

I pay over 20% and I am not even half way to the median

'Fair and balanced -- you decide'

Don't worry. The wealthy elites don't pay a dime.