The Top 10% of income earners paid 71% of federal income tax

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I found a chart sourced from the IRS that shows how the top 10% of income earners paid 71% of federal income tax. This is pretty interesting because it would mean that all those calls that the rich should pay more taxes or that they dont pay enough taxes are wrong. The 10%ers seem to be paying plenty of taxes.

Thoughts?

The people saying they don't pay their share is right. Everyone should be paying the same percentage in taxes. Everyone that cries they pay too much just looks at amounts never percent of income.

The total of the top 10% pay less percentage-wise in taxes than the rest because taxes cap off at certain levels. If we all paid the same percentage the top 10% would be paying way more into the system, and that might be more fair. Certainly a significant increase in tax revenues would be the result. There are only 2 times in history where the top 10% earned far more than the average person...the Great Depression and Today. I'm not against wealth and those who earn it, but they have far more financial ways to hide earnings. With that greater income comes the ability to shelter it. The top 10% can afford to take money they don't need to live on and invest it in things not available to the average person. The average person has seen their wages drop and cannot save much because of rising food/energy prices now.

Additionally, CEO pay has risen dramatically in the last 10 years while the average person's wages have fallen dramatically. This country had a middle class that made us wealthy as a country. With the wealth transferring so far to the top 10%, with all the money shelters they can afford, etc., this country will look like a 3rd world nation soon. That won't benefit even the wealthy in the long run. I'm not proposing a social agenda, I'm just saying that everyone should contribute the same percentage without loopholes or shelters.

Also, I am for smaller Government, and less overseas bases. Our military forces are mobile enough that we could close many overseas bases. We could also stop funding proxy war partner countries with billions of dollars as we do today. That money needs to be spent at home.

Taxes on businesses should also be the same or even nonexistant. GE pays nothing in taxes. I think all businesses should be taxed at the same level or even eliminate business tax all together. Make it easy for businesses big and small to grow in this country.

P.S. I'm against a Value Added Tax too.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Look at the tax breaks that large corperations pay or check out the square mile in london. The richest square mile in the world - tax exempt

They need to pay MORE!!!!! MUCH MUCH more. If you count their incomes, their overseas holdings, and their homes you will find these guys own more than 70% of the wealth in this country!!! It needs to be shifted back down into the hands of the middle class of this country. No, not just the top 20% or 30%. A real downward shift in wealth that affects the poor, the real middle (which is suffering tremendously), while still promoting expansion of the overall economy. It is NOT socialism to demand a fair wage, especially given the profits and capital America has accumulated. People are clueless as to how much money these guys are making. It makes me sick that this idea of "they need to keep more of it so they can give it to us!" actually has traction in America.

If these folks really believe in a middle class, in a country that allows great upward mobility, then they will GIVE WITHOUT REMORSE their double trust-funds and third homes so that others have a chance to live comfortably. These people don't add anything to the economy by holding massive amounts of money in overseas accouns that are taxed at lower rates.


Here is how things REALLY are just based on taxable income! (Doesn't include their trust-funds, houses, cars, overseas accounts).


The economy is "recovering" based upon several measures lately :


BUT YOU WILL NOT SEE IT OR FEEL IT EVER! Unemployment will not go down quickly! Your pay will not go up! THIS IS WHY :


It is your choice to be a slave. This country is so incredibly wealthy but it is not FOR YOU. You are NOTHING in the eyes of these people, especially at the very top of the pyramid.

Originally posted by InfoKartel
And we're going to draw life altering conclusions from this graph here that has these fancy colo...ooooh look , colours!

What a joke this place is becoming

Colors are commonly used in graphs to differentiate between brackets and make them easier to read. Hope that helps in understanding why colors are used.

This particular graph shows how the successful pay more and more taxes each year, which coincides with the economic decline of America.

Originally posted by unityemissions
Treats for all

Im glad to read your post. It means you dont believe in punishing success.

Originally posted by Laokin
Are you for or against the super rich?

Cuz I'm against them.

Im not "against" anybody, including the poor and rich. Live and let live.

Originally posted by jacklondonmiller

Originally posted by phatpackage

Originally posted by jacklondonmiller
They should pay more and entitlements should be reformed.

Obviously a comment where the only motivation was jealousy. Jealous of the rich kids are we? Jealousy is curse. You obviously have never "earned" real money as you would not feel that way if you had.

Obviously you are not American, where all the tax policy has been written to benefit the 10%
which has created an artificial budget crisis by design.

I'll tell you Ringo, ignorance is the worst curse, you should see a witch doctor.

www.forbes.com...

yeah it sure looks like we who make more money have it easier. Its a progressive tax rate. Designed to tax the wealthier at a higher rate and tax the poorer less fortunate at a lesser amount and percentage.

Some of you people on here amaze me at you point of views being so far from the truth

reply to post by guttybaby


Explain why corporations and people can move money in ridiculous ways to attain effective tax rates at 20% or less? Warren Buffet pays a smaller % of his income in taxes than an average middle class man or woman. Yes, with all the loopholes and deductions it really does favor the rich more. They pay a smaller % of their income effectively if they move their money properly (which most do).

You want even more ridiculousness? Look up how many companies paid an effective negative tax rate that earned untold billions in profit. It will make your head spin.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Capitalism is all about abusing the weak.

Im sure the rich would sell children and sex slaves

the greedy psychopaths

they are a parasite.

Abusing the weak? Selling children as sex-slaves? Parasites? Psychopaths?

Is there the remotest possibility any of the 10% reached their position through work and education?

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by snowcrash911

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The 10%ers seem to be paying plenty of taxes.

Thoughts?

Yes. Many rich people like the idea of flat tax. I have a better idea: how about a flat salary?

Now we're all paying an equal amount of income tax.... Problem solved.

We're all about equality right?

Who would get to determine the salary level?

don't let's bog this down in trivia
please
the salary itself
as you are perfectly aware
has nothing to do with anything
[6th line]

It's almost as if the government and world powers would like the global economy to collapse.

It's obvious that this current system is too broke (and there is a double meaning in that) to fix. There are so many holes and loopholes, especially with entitlement programs and tax codes, that government cannot simply just concentrate on one. In the United States, social security is essentially completely underwater, however, even still, people expect that it will be there and that it should be saved, even though saving it would not truly save it, it would only be able to sustain itself until it inevitably drowns again. People are addicted to entitlements and special dispensations. It's so hard to take away a handout, especially when people grow dependent on them. If you take it away, you need a legitimate excuse. The only excuse people will accept is that the system that made these promises no longer exists. If the government and economy collapsed, it could start fresh, without such mindlessly intricate and complex calculations and requirements for who arbitrarily gets what. I see this as the only answer, or rather, I see this as the most plausible answer. This could be done, and our way of life could be saved if someone were to step up to the plate honestly and vocally, not compromising with lobbyists or making deals with fat cat special interest groups.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
the damage done by increasing taxes on the "rich" is nothing compared to raising taxes on the poor.

This is a generalization. It really depends. Some poor get ambitious and grow $100 stronger if you raise their taxes by $5. Some middle class get discouraged and grow $100 poorer if you increase their taxes by $5.

We need to stop throwing around political slogans and look into this more deeply.

Originally posted by MightyQuincunx
Sourced from the IRS??? Now that's reputable ::laughs:: I just found out that the government has never lied to us about anything. Source: The Easter Bunny & The Tooth Fairy

edit on 21-2-2012 by MightyQuincunx because: I needed to add one more reputable source.

That was what i was thinking.

See the thing is ,They report these numbers and these numbers alone for a specific reason. What they are doing is holding back the numbers that actually show how that top 10% in all actuality pays less in taxes.

What they do not tell you is that this 10% ultimately pays less because of the lower Personal income taxes they enjoy but they are more then happy to show you the federal tax numbers.

This 10% does not pay MORE tax then the regular person ,they still pay less.


Tax laws ,rules and systems are over complicated for a reason. To avoid transparency which is what makes claims like in the op possible. Transparency, something that no IRS or government is a big fan off ,now wonder why.


Quick finger magic is what it is.
AND PRESTO!! here are the results!

Originally posted by jacklondonmiller
Just like a right wing idiot, you have no idea about my financial situation, exactly why half of you

are closeted bigots and racists. Mexicans stink, Asians are good at math, homeless people are

unintelligent and people who are not for right wing ideas are on welfare, I get it, I grew up around

it.

This is extremely harsh speech. I dont believe mexicans stink or that you must be on welfare. I am opposed to racism and cultural superiority ideas of any kind and I am sure most other people on this thread are too.

Equating people who value civil debate on tax issues with racists and bigots is what I see more and more around here. This troubles me greatly because it shows how open and civil speech is gradually being undermined by some very, very angry people.

Originally posted by tw0330
this does nothing but prove the income inequality we have in this country.

The reason not everyone has equal income is because there are a great variety of jobs and a great variety of levels of ambition and a great variety of goals people have and a great variety of levels of education.

Originally posted by beezzer
Why this obsession with how much people have is beyond me.
The wealthy are taxed more, because they have more.
What they have left, after taxes, is still too much in many opinions.
And it should be none of anyones business.

That's what irks me.

Good point. There is something very totalitarian and control-freakish in wanting to determine what other people are allowed to have.

The thing is, the top 10% of Americans are some of the richest and most comfortable people on the planet. Millions around the world would give their right arm to be part of that 10%. The fact you can become so wealthy in America does not happen in a vacuum. It has relied on the infrastructure, education system and military defense that has allowed people to be come so wealthy. All these things need to be paid for with taxation. So the fact the 10% pay the most should not be viewed as a problem, rather the price you pay for being in a very exclusive group of human beings on the planet.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I found a chart sourced from the IRS that shows how the top 10% of income earners paid 71% of federal income tax. This is pretty interesting because it would mean that all those calls that the rich should pay more taxes or that they dont pay enough taxes are wrong. The 10%ers seem to be paying plenty of taxes.

Thoughts?

Here are the two main problems with this argument.

It doesn't mention how much wealth that they own.

It also doesn't mention that income tax is but one tax, along with sales tax etc. In fact in 2007 Federal Individual Income Tax accounted for 30.2% of the total tax take by US government.

Originally posted by Ghost375
This thread is propaganda, plain and simple.

You (and many others here) presume that the IRS engages in political propaganda and this has really sparked my curiosity. What do you think the aim and purpose of their propaganda campaign is? When do you think the IRS started engaging in propaganda campaigns? Who do you think should check into the propaganda campaigns of the IRS?

It isnt about what is fair anymore. That ship has sailed a long time ago. The question at hand is of a more existential nature, the question that needs to be asked, can we keep things the way they are and expect the system to last, to carry on?

If a fraction of the population is in a position to impose lower and lower wages on the working class, while being able to buy itself power that is used to get out of taxes or game the system in other ways, when more and more players can buy themselves above the system, its rules its checks and balances what is the expected end result going to be?

Its like a poker game, where everyone is a cheat, noone wants to bet more than the small blind, but try and strong arms public money to be put into the pool, which is of a dwindling supply seen as everyone tries his best to avoid taxes. Of course there is always more money that can be printed, at the cost of inflation though.