Yet another Baby Mauled to Death by PIT BULL - Should they be Banned?

You people keep posting the CDC and such, but if we're to really research it all, you'd all see that even the CDC say the studies are flawed. Do they do DNA tests confirming they are pits or are they just assuming because of appearance or hearsay, hearsay. Most dogs are mutts ya know. Even those that look pure bred, aren't. You all claim to deny ignorance....well.....I'm waiting.

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

I will,
www.defendingdog.com...
www.understand-a-bull.com...
And that's just a couple.
If you were to do your research better, you'd see that the CDC even admits that the study is flawed.
Your turn.

I believe in stiff huge penalties. 10,000$ fines for people that let their dogs get loose. People in general are too uneducated on dogs, and should face punishment for being careless.

edit on 19-2-2012 by sickofitall2012 because: (no reason given)

Throwing up links to a couple pitbull advocacy sites does not trump the arguement.

Care to cite where the CDC admits that the study, which is still on their website by the way, is flawed?


My guns sit locked up and harmless until I go and unlock them and load them, at that point they are only as dangerous as I am.

Can you say anything remotely similar to pittbulls?

Having a pit around children is like having them play with loaded guns. No dog that attacks a child has a history of doing it, there's always the first.

It's like when a guy's cheese slides off his cracker and he shoots up a preschool, the neighbors always say he was a nice guy he didn't seem capable of such a thing. Children do not speak dog, they do not know how a dog will interpret it playing with his food dish, or favorite chew toy. Sweetest dog in the world can have a bad day, but if it's a miniature Dachsund you end up with a sore finger or ankle. If it's pit or other fight bred dog you could easily die.

There is no denying they are a dangerous breed just based on the history of breeding for fighting, the question is how do we handle them. Selective breeding like they have used with fighting dogs works. Just look at some other breeds and the breed they originated from. Sometimes they look nothing alike. The fighting breeds have been bred to be quick tempered with strong jaws and killer instincts, it's what makes a good fighting dog.

Again, not saying they should be banned, only regulated. If you want to own one you take responsibility for it's actions, you carry higher insurance limits, and you even face criminal charges if it attacks someone.

You make the penalties stiff and the breed popularity will die off.

Originally posted by nightstalker78
Nancy Grace? Really? But yes,I believe they should be banned.They're nasty dogs.They're bred to be the way they are.And for anyone who says 'its the owner,not the dog'. Bull# and you know it.Certain breeds are just not meant to be kept as pets.Pit Bulls being the #1 choice.

We had a Pitbull X who was absolutely lovely to both other dogs and children. I truly believe regarding these beautiful dogs that nurture can triumph over nature, from personal experience.

As an owner of a pitbull, I feel the need to bring up the point that during the early 20th century they were regarded as one of the safest, and most loyal dogs of all. Every generation has its "Devil Dog", the 80's and 90's had rotties, the new target is pitbulls. The only reason why this breed is targeted is because the violence is what is shown in the spotlight. I've never been attacked by a pitbull, but been attacked multiple times by Chows, so if I were Nancy Grace then everyone would be in an uproar about chows.

news.yahoo.com...

Originally posted by LunchBocks
I've never been attacked by a pitbull, but been attacked multiple times by Chows

I have a similar experience, but the aggressive and nasty dog was a Dachshund. Man, do they have sharp teeth!

Admittedly I've never owned a Pitbull, nor would I ever want to. My personal preference has always been for bird dogs, and I used to raise and train English Springer Spaniels for the field. I mentioned the Springers only because there will be those who jump to conclusions and accuse me of hating dogs, an accusation that's far from the truth. I've never claimed to be an expert on dogs, but I do believe I have a little more understanding of their natures than does the average owner.
Every purebred dog was originally bred with a specific purpose in mind, such as Collies for herding sheep, Terriers (especially the smaller breeds such as the Jack Russel) for catching and killing rats, Labradors for mostly waterfowl, etc. Some breeds were for guarding herds of livestock against wolves, others for the protection of families, especially children. We're all familiar with the Dalmation and its spots, a dog that was bred to keep other dogs away from nipping and biting the legs of the horses that pulled the firewagons. The powerful and loyal Mastiff was bred to fight alongside troops, and one type, the Alangu or Indian Mastiff was even used to guard enemy prisoners.
Sadly, dog fighting was once considered a sport in most countries, and to this day still is in some. Even in Canada and the U.S.A. there is still huge amounts of money spent on this cruelty, though the fighting times and locations are always kept secret between the wealthy lowlife who bet large sums on their favourite. The most notorious of these "pit dogs" is the Pitbull, and for good reason, for not only is it a powerful fighter, it just won't quit! Many's the Pitbull that has died with its jaws still locked on the throat fur of its opponent, and had to have its jaws pried off! This a dog I would never want around children, or anyone for that matter!
The owners of Pitbulls, just like most owners of other types of dogs, are quick to let you know their dog/s wouldn't bite, though in reality they can never be sure, especially a dog that has had fighting deliberating bred into it, and all traces of fear bred out! Given the right circumstances any dog will bite, with some species being more prone to do so than others, and because of what it was bred for and the many generations of it took to produce what could easily be considered as being the ultimate in fighting dogs, the Pitbull is a bomb waiting to go off, and in most cases it's just a matter of time before it does! The results are devasting not only for the victims, but for their families as well!
It's my personal opinion that the Pitbull is a breed that should be eliminated! Because I know how most owners feel about their dogs, I don't mean all Pitbulls should be rounded up and euthanized, but they should be "fixed" and never be able to breed. This way the breed will eventually die out.
I've only offered my personal opinion and am not here to argue, and anyone who disagrees only has to read the stats on dog bites, especially those that are fatal, and those that involve children!

Nancy Grace, obnoxious, rude and arrogant. I think she should be banned. I'll take a pit bull over her any day of the week.

reply to post by AGWskeptic

Here's one from the CDC website
"Because of difficulties inherent in determining a dog’s breed with certainty, enforcement of breed-specific ordinances raises con- stitutional and practical issues. Fatal attacks represent a small proportion of dog bite injuries to humans and, therefore, should not be the primary factor driving public policy concerning dangerous dogs. Many practi- cal alternatives to breed-specific ordinances exist and hold promise for prevention of dog bites. (J Am Vet Med Assoc 2000;217:836–840)"
www.cdc.gov...

And did you not read my whole previous post? I said people should be punished for not being responsible.

reply to post by WeRpeons


%100 agree, ban Nancy Grace and charge her with a hate crime... spreading fear and unnecessary controversy. Nancy grace is probably responsible for millions of dollars worth of wrongful spite and prosecution. About time we started cutting the heads off the hydra.

That is one witch hunt I can get on board with, lol.

What is up with all these threads lately filled with blind hatred towards things, the hate brigade is out in full force lately. Are people really this stupid? Or is this some kind of organized effort on ATS to spread judgmental hate? Or both?

I'm not asking for people to stop posting threads about things, just can we get it with a little less bias please? ATS is starting to look like Fox News.

reply to post by ignant


No they shouldn't be banned, but I am for some type of permit to have one. They need to be properly trained. There is a lot of people who just want a dog, so they get a pit bull to be cool, or for protection, or whatever. But then they're gone for most of the day, working or whatever, and the dog never gets properly trained and put into it's place. The dog needs to know that it isn't the alpha. When you've done that, I know plenty of pit bulls, that are the nicest dogs in the world. Its not about the dog, its the people. Why don't we start charging the people owning the dogs, because they aren't properly taking care of them. That would send a message to all the people who just want a dog, vs. getting a pit bull.

reply to post by andersensrm


I agree.
Here in New Zealand we have to register our dogs. I believe it should be the owners who are registered.

Pitbulls use to be nanny dogs for many many years. They're great dogs and are very protective of young kids.

In recent decades people have been training pitbulls to become something other then nanny dogs, so are the dogs really the ones to be banned or put the blame on?

How do we go from a dog that use to be used as a nanny because of how kind and protective the dog is to becoming a monster that should be put down or banned from being owned?

That's a complete 180 and since the dog has to be trained by humans to be what it is...waiting for the light blub to turn on for a few readers...then can the dog be the one at fault?

People do not put the effort they use to, people don't train dogs, they expect the dogs to train themselves and then wonder what went wrong when the dog goes berserk.

Originally posted by aorAki
reply to post by andersensrm

 

I agree.
Here in New Zealand we have to register our dogs. I believe it should be the owners who are registered.

Yea, I mean I know plenty of people who have raised their pits to be great dogs. But I also know a few, who just weren't around enough for most of the day to do anything with them. They come home and play, and feed them and thats about it. There is no structured training process that they put them through. A dog will always be a dog, that is it will protect it's pack, and they consider their human owners their pack. What goes wrong, is when that human has no say in what the dog does, because the dog doesn't recognize the authority. This must be taught, and if your not capable of doing this, then you shouldn't have a pitt. Get another breed.

reply to post by aorAki


We have to register our dogs with the cities here too.
I want bigger penalties for irresponsible owners cuz they are ruining it for everyone else that is responsible. As always, the losers ruin everything.

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by aorAki
reply to post by andersensrm

 

I agree.
Here in New Zealand we have to register our dogs. I believe it should be the owners who are registered.

Yea, I mean I know plenty of people who have raised their pits to be great dogs. But I also know a few, who just weren't around enough for most of the day to do anything with them. They come home and play, and feed them and thats about it. There is no structured training process that they put them through. A dog will always be a dog, that is it will protect it's pack, and they consider their human owners their pack. What goes wrong, is when that human has no say in what the dog does, because the dog doesn't recognize the authority. This must be taught, and if your not capable of doing this, then you shouldn't have a pitt. Get another breed.

I wish there were more smart people out there like you.
If you can't take care of your specific breds needs, then don't get a dog.
The nightmare will never end until they shut down every single f@#*n puppy mill in the US. The breeders are one of the biggest problems.

Years ago I was bitten by a Pit Bull who was owned by a man that bragged about "having people work with his dogs,' whatever that meant. I don't blame the dog, I blame the redneck who owned him and had him chained to a tree.

Now I own an American Pit Bull Terrier that I got from a breeder, and raised from a pup. Out of all of my dogs, who are 2 Boxer mixes, a Boxer, a Pointer/mutt, and a little, unidentifiable bred mutt, the Pit is the most level headed dog I have.

I can leave him in an open car, and he will stay. He was taught where the boundaries of the yard are, and he will NOT go over them, not even if another dog is there. He is totally safe around livestock, including horses, goats, and birds. I have a cat that likes to cuddle with him, and the cat does the kitty massage on the Pit. The cat's claws can be quite sharp, so the Pit responds by moving away, while the other dogs snap and bark at the cat. The day I brought this cat home, the Pit licked the cat all over until it was a slobbery mess. I leave him alone all day with "his" cat, but I don't leave the cat with the other dogs. They are angels when I'm home, but who knows what could happen if they knew I was gone.

Due to the history of what APBTs were bred for, which was catching and holding livestock, and pit fighting, I don't recommend that they be left around livestock or kitties, like my Pit is. In this instance, he is the exception. He is 70 pounds, and strong so I would never leave him, or ANY other dog, alone with a small child. I think anyone who leaves a young child alone with ANY animal, deserves to be thrown under the jail. I don't care if they stepped into the next room to answer the phone.

Try this: look up "rabbit sounds" on the Internet, and play them for your dog. Does he react? Do those rabbit sounds resemble a screaming child? Yep. A lot of dogs' predator instincts could be aroused by any running and/or screaming animal. Sight hounds chase rags pulled across the ground. Many kinds of dogs are aroused by running and/or screaming sounds, but it's a lot more dramatic when it's a Pit than when it's grandma's tea cup poodle. (My 15 pound mutt's goal in life is to kill a coyote. When he hears them, he almost takes the windows out to get outside! My Pit doesn't react at all.)

Finally, my Pit was bred by a breeder who shows. Any responsible breeder (as opposed to a back yard amateur, or criminal breeder) with a APBT who is a human biter will have that dog put down. These dogs were never bred as guard dogs, or to bite people, except by irresponsible, scumbag, criminals. Criminals don't read the breed standards. They do have back ally "training sessions" for their dogs though.

If you think that getting rid of Pit Bulls will solve anything, consider what can happen if another dog becomes the favorite of the criminal element, or some backyard breeder who thinks big, fluffy dogs are pretty. I would hate to see the Caucasian Mountain Dog in the hands of the wrong person or OUT OF the hands of the wrong person. It IS a large guarding breed.

reply to post by sickofitall2012


You can read this for what it's worth, I'm not sure Obama can or will actually accomplish anything but at least people are very serious about it being brought to attention. This was one of the top petitions people signed above a lot of other stuff that garnered a lot of attention (SOPA, that "substance" we aren't supposed to talk about here, etc.).

White House petitions - puppy mills

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

Here's one from the CDC website
"Because of difficulties inherent in determining a dog’s breed with certainty, enforcement of breed-specific ordinances raises con- stitutional and practical issues. Fatal attacks represent a small proportion of dog bite injuries to humans and, therefore, should not be the primary factor driving public policy concerning dangerous dogs. Many practi- cal alternatives to breed-specific ordinances exist and hold promise for prevention of dog bites. (J Am Vet Med Assoc 2000;217:836–840)"
www.cdc.gov...

And did you not read my whole previous post? I said people should be punished for not being responsible.

edit on 19-2-2012 by sickofitall2012 because: (no reason given)

They can't specify breed by AKC standards, so they lump the fighting breeds all together. AKC standards are very strict, which is why they don't do it.

What they are saying is that since identification can't be breed specific they don't advocate using the study for policymaking decisions, not that it isn't accurate. That's why it's still up on their site, they want the public to know that the odds of a fighting breed injuring or killing you is higher than with other breeds.

Someone said before that not one Cocker Spaniel had bitten anyone, I can say from personal experience that isn't true as I've been bit by one. But most minor dog bites go unreported because the injury didn't require medical care.

The problem is that once it's been bred into the dog it must be bred out, it won't go away otherwise.

Those guys in Vegas said their tigers were safe, just like the lady with the chimp that ate half of her friend, she stabbed it with a butcher knife before it was shot by a .40 cal at close range, and that still didn't kill it, it walked off and bled to death.

You have to accept the fact that some animals are more dangerous than others, and some breeds of dog are more dangerous others.

like my dad always said pit bulls are the Mondays of all dogs..
sorry for the family's lost ..

Originally posted by ignant

31 people were killed in dog attacks in the USA in 2011.

22 of them were exclusively by pit bulls, the other nine were among other various breeds.

Should pitbulls be allowed as pets whether with or without "permits"?

What if someone's pit bull gets away while your walking your baby one day in his/her carriage, and it mauls your baby to death maybe in as little as one lethal bite to neck before you can do anything, how will you feel and how will justice be served?

OFF COURSE THESE MONSTERS SHOULD BE BANNED.

Only people with pathetic little egos and low self esteem keep these nasty monsters to impress other people.

I am never impressed by such people.I think what a loser and he must have a small d..k. when i pass them by.

I also keep a metal or strong pen in my hand to stab the monster dog in the nose/eye in case they attack me.

The people who keep them have a very small penis and keep a big nasty vicious dog to compensate.