NYT 1932 : Hitler should have more power

Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Nope I don't watch TV...

Anyway, if any of these fools supporting Hitler had read Mein Kampf, they would have known that Hitler was very very bad news.

Really?

How much do you really know about Hitler? You think your clever because you read Mein Kempf? Clap clap. Guess you are a Hitler expert now.

Think that you can read the Green Book or the Communist Manifesto and become some kind of expert?

Not all of Hitlers supporters were fools. That just foolish.

There are still people that love Hitler in the USA at the current time.

But they definitely won't tell you the Nazis were inspired by the Eugenics program in the USA.

They won't tell you that the USA force sterilized people until 1974 either. And they won't tell you family court are the remnants of the Eugenics courts of the past.

Originally posted by mcdgray129

Originally posted by theubermensch

Originally posted by NuminousCosmos
reply to post by theubermensch

 

Then I ask, what is the point of your post? Are you not showing admiration of Hitler by dredging up sympathetic articles from historical sources?

For example, the Time Man of the Year article is not a flattering portrait of a misunderstood martyr...it paints Hitler in the image of a ruthless man out for power.

www.time.com...

I didnt say anything about the Times article. This isnt my thread. I commented that there was alot to like about Hitler and that yes,he did indeed have many supporters in America.

I thought that it was refreshing to see a thread on here that attempts to take a less hysterical look at Hitler. You are blinded by propaganda.

And I admire Hitler for many reasons.

edit on 19-2-2012 by theubermensch because: (no reason given)

So you admire a man who killed so many??. thats not news propaganda as you like to say but facts..
Really shows your character btw....

edit on 19-2-2012 by mcdgray129 because: (no reason given)

Facts can stand up to scrutiny, although, anyone challenging these "facts" in some countries go directly to prison.

Do you suppose people would feel the same about Hitler if he supposedly killed another group such as middle eastern terrorists instead of jews? Of course not, we would be calling him a hero. Hitler was not the first to espouse the idea that jews overtake every country they go into, that they steal pennies from the poor to line their own pockets, that they try to force their religion on others, and hate people who don't follow it.

Hitler was just one of many who understood this and tried to free his country of it. So much of the lies that we hear about Hitler are media, eucation systems, and the jews own propaganda.

Read "How Jews control America" www.realjewnews.com...

reply to post by theubermensch


Ok sir you need to take a closer look at what Hitler did. Everybody talks about the Jews, but no one says anything about the gays, gypsies, Russians, Autistic Polish people, French Females. Take in the larger picture, and just so you know you might want to re-read Mein Kampf. I have a first English edition copy, it's the ravings of a evil madman.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
I'm sure if ATS had been there back in the 30s, it would have exposed Hitler as a genocidal maniac bent on war

I seriously doubt that.. I would place my money on biased support for Hitler simply because he is not the US or the West. The same response ATS'ers give the Taliban, Saddam Hussein, North Korea, Bin Laden, Ahmadinejad, Assad...

If it weren't for the fact Idi Amin is dead im sure we would see people with high praise for him as well.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Are you kidding me? All ATS would have to do is post snippets from Mein Kampf and his speeches. Hitler would have been EXPOSED as a despot.

reply to post by RealSpoke

I'll bet it really depends on which snippets for which context it would appear to be placed in for how many attack or defend. I was on a holocaust denial thread a couple months ago and with actual quotes and links to the official transcripts of the Nuremburg trials and there were still people arguing that the key aspects of it happened.

Agreed on the horror of Eugenics and how seriously it was pursued right here in the United States until Hitler made it a dirty word...and then it's just been pursued in entirely different ways since.

It sounds like we're even coming full circle back in how talk seems to be starting up in society about what conditions, if any, constitute illness, age or disability beyond where life should be valuable. Nothing much surprises me for what people come up with these days... It's crazy, isn't it?

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Are you kidding me? All ATS would have to do is post snippets from Mein Kampf and his speeches. Hitler would have been EXPOSED as a despot.

For 3 minutes until the conversation comes back around to the US and the West, at which point some person without regard for facts will make some asinine claim that the West took mein kampf out of context in order to portray Hitler as evil. It would then be dubbed as propaganda putout by the West and off we go.

Like people have done on this site with th protocols of the elders of zion, which have been debunked time and time again, yet people still believe it.. Why? Because it targets Israel.

The only thing that would have been exposed is the confirmation that people dont know their history and choose to go with whats popular instead of what actually occurred.

As far as exposing save the argument..

So far the people have failed to expose -
Saddam Hussein
Kim Jong Il
Kim Jong Un
Ahmadinejad
Assad
Hu Jintao
Ghadaffi

etc etc etc

It always comes back to the US..


Case in point -
ATS thread - US, Israeli cyber attack on Press TV fails

Nothing to support it except for the fact its Iran making the claim. Thats good enough for people in the thread because its against the US and Israel.

If we had this mentality during the 30's / 40's, we would be speaking German and would be well on our way into the thousand year reich.

Reply to post by Nana2

I think ALL Nazi sympathizers/anti-semites should be *BANNED* from ATS.

Why?

Because they ARE ignorance at it's finest.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by The Sword


Why specifically anti-semites? what about people who talk rubbish about Indians, Chinese, Africans or even Whites?

Who would decide who fits into his category? Ive been accused of anti-semitism several times on this site for saying thing that were pro Palestinian.

While were at it why specifically Nazi sympathizers? why not Communist or even Democratic sympathizers?

Maybe we should just ban anyone who doesnt share the same opinion as you

Censorship is censorship, everyone should be entitled to their say no matter how distasteful you find it.

P.s I think people who like pistachio ice cream should be banned, seriously if you like it thee is something seriously wrong with you and your opinions on ANYTHING cannot be valid

Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Nope I don't watch TV...

Anyway, if any of these fools supporting Hitler had read Mein Kampf, they would have known that Hitler was very very bad news.

It's the same thing for people like ATSers who expose the nutjobs running countries around the world... we all know what they plan to do because we read what they write and who they are hanging out with.

I'm sure if ATS had been there back in the 30s, it would have exposed Hitler as a genocidal maniac bent on war.

edit on 19-2-2012 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

Indeed. The ability of the internet to shine spotlights on tyranny is one of the few reasons for any optimism in the world today. Thats why the battles against internet censorship are so important.

It intrigues me what an organisation like AVAAZ.org will be able to accomplish in 10 years if it keeps expanding at the current rate.

reply to post by Xcathdra

reply to post by masqua


Had the net been around back in the 1930's Hitler and his propaganda machine would have mastered it, and in the same manner Iran is doing today. We have the world wide web, 24 hour new service, independent media to state controlled media, and we still have people who think the holocaust never occurred, that Iran is not out to wipe Israel off the map while at the same time believing everything that comes out in media that targets the west, and people buy it hook line and sinker simply because it targets the west.

So no, had we had the net back in the 1930's Hitler would not have been exposed, and if we actually use history as our guide people would back Hitler before they would the west, just as they do today. Had we had the net back in the 1930's no, ATS would not have exposed Hitler.

The only countries that would have taken flack would be the countries who would, rightfully, criticize the actions of the Nazi regime. We can see perfect examples of that today..

So the Nazis exterminated millions...
The Soviets exterminated millions...
Iraq... Libya...Yugoslavia...Afghanistan.....Iran....China.... All with repressive government with extremely weak human rights records...

The only time these countries have been the focus of conversation by those who supposedly care, including ATS, is when the US and other countries intervened. Now people are whining about dead people here, dead people there, only because they can blame the US or the West. Where was their care factor when it was going on? Even after the fact, when the true extent of Hussein's actions were known, people ignored it, only to complain about the US.

Differing opinions is fine, and is actually a secure reminder that we all have not been brainwashed by one side or the other. The issue though is the thought process when incontrovertible facts are presented, only to be ignored not because of facts, but simply because it doesn't target the right "group".

What we do not want is a society which fails to question the 'official' stance on important issues, nor do we want to start 'shooting messengers'.

Right now we have a society that says as long as it doesn't affect me, who cares what happens to them. People seem to quickly forget (or ignore) that the 2 times the US tried to stay neutral, we eventually got dragged in, and not because of what we saw, but because our own interests suddenly were under threat.

2 World wars is enough.. The wholesale slaughter is enough....

We either stop the actions now, or we wait for it to knock on our door again...

That messenger is on the way... In that particular case, when the messenger is brining you the war, the messenger becomes a valid target.

The intellectuals always lick the heels of tyrants. Consider how they licked the heels of Stalin. Just because Hitler made promises of social welfare.

Someone with common sense like Churchill was called a war monger.

Originally posted by KwisatzHaderach
reply to post by theubermensch

 

Ok sir you need to take a closer look at what Hitler did. Everybody talks about the Jews, but no one says anything about the gays, gypsies, Russians, Autistic Polish people, French Females. Take in the larger picture, and just so you know you might want to re-read Mein Kampf. I have a first English edition copy, it's the ravings of a evil madman.

Yes. Everyone does always talk about the jews dont they.

I know the cleansing went further than the jews. Im not sure what you are trying to imply but your logic is a worry.

Did you know that 150000 jews fought for Hitler and Germany?

Originally posted by theubermensch
Yes. Everyone does always talk about the jews dont they.

I know the cleansing went further than the jews. Im not sure what you are trying to imply but your logic is a worry.

Did you know that 150000 jews fought for Hitler and Germany?

I wouldn't consider forced labor technically as "working for".

HItler is a curiosity. I believe it was Einstein or some other famous figure that said he admired Hitler because of his ability to lead an entire people with unwavering authority. Those are not the exact words. But I think it's true. How many of us have wished we could say just the right words at the right time to have others do as we say? Hitler led his nation as a true dictator with his Nazi party in power. What's amazing is that he did it so smoothly. His words seemed to melt the resistance. He could command his army to slaughter millions of jews and they didn't even blink. Think about that. He could have had anything he wanted. If you read Mein Kampf, you will get a taste of what Hitler wanted. He was a bigoted man. He considered himself a god fearing man, but it 's hard to imagine him that way. His extreme ideals led him become the man he became and to lead his people to war. The results of WW2 are what happens when Hitler realizes he may able to control the will of his people, but he couldn't control the will of the world.

Hitler is the climax of arrogance, of pride, of conceit, of self-absorption. He is what we would all become if we let the darker half of our character reign over the other. Nature would cut us down, just as it did Hitler.

True government works not by command, but by cooperation. When one party recognizes another and compromises. When one nation works with another, not through force, but through law. One day, we will realize this ideal for the whole world. No more dictators. No more isolationism. No more genocide.

EDIT: Go here and read:
www.mondopolitico.com ...

See what he's saying? He's essentially saying that compromise and coordination prevents the strong and healthy from achieving their goals and causes the future to crumble in failed coalition dreams. He's opening the doors to the Third Reich and the rule of his Nazi party; himself as leader. I admire his writing style, but just from this one chapter you can see a dangerous man in his earlier years, rapidly coalescing.

Some would agree with him that cooperation is weakness. That compromise shows lack of conviction. That to break from your principles in anyway at all is to fracture your strength and become weak. This is essentially what he's arguing in that chapter. It's something I've seen before too, sometimes even in myself. I always desire to be in the center, politically. I always want to see what others think and to adopt what they think with what I think. But sometimes I get impatient or angry with what others think and I can even outright reject it. But it's not something I am proud of. Ultimately, I view myself as only one person. There're about seven billion other people in the world and a long history. I cannot even touch the surface of all of it. I know that I am blind and that my viewpoints are inferior. I know that wisdom is found in others and in history. But whether it's a sin or a flaw, I still can become too attached to my opinions.

One thing I've noted is that it's a lot easier to agree with oneself than someone else. In fact, the more you disagree, the more you feel this pain. Perhaps Hitler had a extreme sensitivity to this. I've read some studies that're relevant. I do not remember their names, however. Maybe some people are predisposed to being this way. Negotiating with others then would be a painful ordeal for them. One that they try to avoid.

I wonder if something happened in Hitler's childhood that made him this way? Is it genetic? Or maybe I'm just wrong. For that matter, my whole post could be off the mark by a wide margin. I don't know.

Originally posted by The Sword
Reply to post by Nana2

 

I think ALL Nazi sympathizers/anti-semites should be *BANNED* from ATS.

Why?

Because they ARE ignorance at it's finest.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Why is it only anti-semites? I'm tired of Jews getting special sympathy. Hate is hate, and no one is a more important race than the other.

However, I think all people of political persuasions should be allowed to post on ATS. Censorship of political ideas is stupid. But posts filled with hate ideas or violence shouldn't be allowed, and already isn't.

reply to post by Vitchilo


"The victors will never ask if they told the truth" - Adolf Hitler

But anyways, I'm no Nazi sympathizer but I don't like my history being muddied for political gain, like WWII history. I find true history somewhere in the middle of what my books tell me and the opposing (and sometimes radical) view tells me. Nothing is ever black and white. Be it news, history or a relationship. There's more to it all.