America there is no freedom, page 5

posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 06:08 PM

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The reason government exists is because it takes weeks, months, and even years to get information from point A to point B.

You may not remember this yourself, but hundreds of years ago this was the reason for America's government in it's current form being devised.

lonewolf19792000

posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 06:42 PM

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reply to post by hmdphantom

As long as we have the right to bear arms we will always be free because we have the largest standing army i the world. Until they take away the second amendment we will always have a measure of "freedom". The day we let them take our guns will be the day we deserve to have the chains of slavery heaped upon us.

edit on 16-2-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

allprowolfy

posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:06 PM

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You, have a good point op. Americans-myself, are free to do what?
1) Need a passport to travel to get outside of the U.S.
2) Have to pay taxes or can-will be arrested.
3) Cannot sleep on the side-walk, or will be incarcerated
4) We have an electorate democracy that picks our President
5)Indocrinated since infancy, of just how good we are.
6)need a permit to picket-or protest.
7)need a permit to drive
8)need a permit-certification in any academia to get a decent job
9)need that same permit to get into almost all state-federal jurisidictions now.
10) Lastly, America can scoff at other countries for not being Democratic, however we have the most people per-capita in jails throughout the world
I think your right in a sense, maybe Americans are not as free as we think

sharkz

posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:43 PM

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reply to post by allprowolfy

Well said and not the only one to have a bit of sense in this discussion. Freedom to what extent would be a more appropriate topic.
IMHO America seems to be ahead slightly in the freedom dept. although in practice freedoms go alot deeper than the physical.
I was brought up Catholic from this aspect alone i,m not free. Infact any God fearing individual is not free.

Another thing.....total freedom for the indiviual cannot exist whilst co-existing with others in a modern society. Some sort of line must drawn for the greater good!

edit on 16-2-2012 by sharkz because: (no reason given)

spinalremain

posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:47 PM

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Speak for yourselves.

I enjoy all my freedoms very much

Snoopy1978

posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:10 PM

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Wait a minute, you librul scum...we HAVE been fighting wars of aggression for the past eleven years for our freedoms, right? I mean, we should be oh so grateful to our troops for their daily freedom protecting duties half a world away, right? We wouldnt have a superbowl if it wasnt for our profiteering, professional soldiers, RIGHT?! I mean theyre getting college money AND patriotically defending our "freedoms" by guarding poppy plantations overseas! Gotta count for something, dont you think?! Where's your yellow ribbon, commie?

USA!

edit on 16-2-2012 by Snoopy1978 because: (no reason given)

ludwigvonmises003

posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:34 PM

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USA is a fascist nation now with NDAA 2012 with which indefinite detention,torture and execution without warrant can happen . People can be made to disappear off the streets.

USA is now worse than Iran and equivalent to China.

benevolent tyrant

posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:36 PM

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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by allprowolfy
You, have a good point op. Americans-myself, are free to do what?
1) Need a passport to travel to get outside of the U.S.

No you don't..... you need a passport to enter another country or to enter the U.S. This is something that every country demands.

Originally posted by allprowolfy
2) Have to pay taxes or can-will be arrested.

I can't think of many countries that don't have income taxes or provide for penalties for not complying with the regulations for paying them. After all, nations do have infrastructures such as roads, bridges and electrical cables to provide for. Also, what about education, health, welfare?

Originally posted by allprowolfy
3) Cannot sleep on the side-walk, or will be incarcerated

Well of course you can't sleep on the sidewalk. For that matter, you can't sleep in the road either. People in that position will probably be incarcerated for their own protection -- giving them some time to "sleep it off".

Originally posted by allprowolfy
4) We have an electorate democracy that picks our President

Considering that the Electoral College was still established and voted upon by a democratically elected legislative body, this would hardly be a violation of your freedoms but, still, this would be one valid point. Perhaps it is time that the Electoral College is revisited.

Originally posted by allprowolfy
5)Indocrinated since infancy, of just how good we are.

I have to scratch my head at how 'this', exactly, violates your freedom. Other than giving you an inflated sense of your own importance, no harm is actually done. Frankly, it's rather symptomatic of the educational and parenting techniques demonstrated over the last generation more than anything else.

Originally posted by allprowolfy
6)need a permit to picket-or protest.

Yes, you do need a permit to picket or protest..... while you do have a right to demonstrate and voice your opinion, others also have a right not to have their rights infringed upon. This process allow for both parties to have their rights protected.

Originally posted by allprowolfy
7)need a permit to drive

Of course you need a permit to drive. The permit is to establish that you are capable of driving a vehicle safely.

Originally posted by allprowolfy
8)need a permit-certification in any academia to get a decent job

I suppose that in part we have the technological era to blame for this more than the United States, per se. The day and age when an unskilled laborer can earn a decent wage has come to an end. I guess instead of dropping out of high school, more than the 50% who currently graduate will have to buckle down and study. Besides..... when I go to a dentist, I wan or doctort to see a diploma from a certified University hanging on the wall.

Originally posted by allprowolfy
9)need that same permit to get into almost all state-federal jurisdictions now.

I'd comment on this one if I only knew what, exactly, you meant.

Originally posted by allprowolfy
10) Lastly, America can scoff at other countries for not being Democratic, however we have the most people per-capita in jails throughout the world

Well, you got me on this one. Yep, The U.S. certainly does have a lot of people in prison. Of course, there could be a lot of reasons for that: unjust drug laws for one. Still, this can be countered by saying that prison might be avoided by simply "obeying the law". I'm in my fifties and I've managed to live a good and decent life without having to mug, rob, steal, forge, embezzle, rape, murder, kidnap or, in other words, obey the law. (for the most part).

I think you have confused freedom -- real Freedom -- for things you would "kinda like to do". The freedom to believe in whatever you want to believe is a real freedom. Throughout history, throughout the world, people have been denied the freedom to believe in a God of their choice or, conversely "not" to believe in a God of their choice without repercussions.

A freedom to assemble with your fellow citizens of like minds is a freedom that is also overlooked but one that is important and one that has, similarly been denied people over the ages.

I could go on to mention the Freedom of the Press...... a free press is paramount. Imagine if you were restricted as to what you could read....study or research.

Should I go on?

edit on 2/16/2012 by benevolent tyrant because: (no reason given)

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theBigToe

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 01:57 AM

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Apparently you can access this website from Iran.

But that doesnt mean you arent still intimidated by Khamenei's regime into not criticizing it in the slightest if you are posting from Iran.

edit on 17-2-2012 by theBigToe because: (no reason given)

FlyersFan

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 07:44 AM

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I saw the thread title and knew it was our resident Iranian Government Agent working overtime.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
There is no freedom in USA

Says the Iranian government propagandist agent who hails from a country with no freedom ... with 'morals police' who dictate what a person will wear ... with laws that support homosexuals being hung in the town square ... with forced conversions to Islam ... with complete censorship of all TV, Radio, and Internet.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
but I should add that we don't like your version of freedom.

'We'?? You mean you and the rest of the totalitarian Iranian government agents?

OUR version of freedom = freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of information, equal rights for women, right to assembly, freedom of speech, right to keep and bear arms, right to a speedy trial, right to bring witness, right to a REAL trial by jury, right not to have cruel punishment, right of search and seizure regulated, ....

YOUR version of freedom = censored internet, censored press, censored radio and tv, forced conversions to Islam , hanging of homosexuals simpy because they are homosexual , 'morals police' who beat women for absolutely no good reason , massive numbers of human rights abuses, mostly in the name of 'Islam ...

Hell .. Iranian kids can't even play with a freak'n barbie doll and can't even play with water guns on a hot day without the threat of the government. Yep .. some freedom! :shk:

For you, hmdphantom, an Iranian propagandist government agent, to come here and say "There is no freedom in USA' ... Your propaganda words are unbelievable and pretty damn pathetic.

If you are so hyped up on gaining freedom for people, then I suggest you start in IRAN ... stop your buddies in the Iranian government from beating women for no reason. Stop your buddies in the Iranian government from their human rights abuses. Stop your buddies in the Iranian government from forcing Christian ministers to convert to Islam or die. Stop your buddies in the Iranian government from hanging homosexuals simply because they are homosexual. How about you start with those things instead of trying to fling poo on the USA.

FlyersFan

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 07:47 AM

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Originally posted by theBigToe
Apparently you can access this website from Iran.

Have you asked yourself WHY? How is it that this person can access this site from inside Iran? The Iranian government has a tight grip on internet access. Do you think that he'd be able to post all his pro-Iranian propaganda (that comes straight from the government there) without being an Iranian government propagandist agent? Answer = no.

ThichHeaded

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 08:04 AM

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Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
Being able to freely express one's opinion, to raise one's voice without fear of reprisal from the government is important. Americans still value this freedom.

I can understand, however, why Iranians might take a different view. When the Students in Tehran raised their voices in protest against their government -- expressed their opinion --- they were severely repressed by force. Deadly force! No wonder Iranians might consider that their opinions don't matter. It is interesting to note, however, that the Iranian government considered the voices of those brave students important enough to use strong, even deadly force to suppress.

Srly now?

This is America, I think it looks worse than Iran if you ask me.. Let's see what happens when you defend yourself shall we?

For the record I knew this girl in the video above, She was only going home after hanging out with friends in Oakland, She could have given a rats ass less about the protests.. It isnt her thing.. She was on her way back to the southside when this went down.. So umm.. Yes, a terrorist she is..

Oh and lets not forget the Military weapons they use on people also..

Ya looks alot like Amerika to me.. Your right we get no backlash from speaking out against out governement.. You are so right, Let me thank you for setting me straight.. Oh and yes I can bring up many more incidents also.. Lets say RNC 04, A Judge found that most people who were thrown in jail in NYC were there illegally and stated anyone still in jail after this hearing the city will have to pay 1000 dollars per head of those people still in jail..

There was over 2500 arrests that weekend.....

But yep we can say whatever we want.. And not worry about anything bad happening to us..

edit on 2/17/2012 by ThichHeaded because: (no reason given)

Mclaneinc

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 09:38 AM

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reply to post by Mart0

There's no such thing as freedom while being alive..

All you really have is less or more choices...

When you die you are then free...

SharpKnife

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 10:05 AM

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It is obvious to me that you have never visited outside America. If you did you would see that America still has the most freedoms around the world from south korea to iran. How can you say America has no freedoms when gay marriage is being passed around the nation, in iran you get executed. How can you say we have no freedoms when you are free to write anything you want on the internet, in iran a man was sentenced to death for running a XXX site. How can you say we have no freedoms when you can buy and play any video game you want, in aus they ban certain video games.

Some members who sit on this website all day have become completely delusional and brain washed. Just go visit mexico where water and electricity are considered a luxury. Sure the govt spys on our internet use OK, well honestly not much we can do about that, and sure some places have stupid laws and marijuana isnt legal but in the end America is still one of the greatest nations to live in. You wouldnt have any idea how much freedom is still allowed to us in this country until you go and visit somewhere else, that is over populated and does not even have paved roads or hospitals, when you need help you can call 911, let me tell you theres no 911 in the jungles of africa where innocent people get massacred daily for that diamond your wife is wearing.(Let me tell you a vast majority of these diamonds are blood, they have just been laundered to seem legit)... Stop bashing America and stop apologizing for what you are, an AMERICAN, if you dont like it LEAVE.

edit on 17-2-2012 by SharpKnife because: (no reason given)

Indigo5

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 10:11 AM

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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by theBigToe
Apparently you can access this website from Iran.

Have you asked yourself WHY? How is it that this person can access this site from inside Iran? The Iranian government has a tight grip on internet access. Do you think that he'd be able to post all his pro-Iranian propaganda (that comes straight from the government there) without being an Iranian government propagandist agent? Answer = no.

I am still searching to try and determine if ATS is banned in Iran as that would be near conclusive.

They have banned the BBC, Twitter, facebook etc. I can't imagine they would allow access to ATS.

an issues list of banned websites

By Mahmoud Salem in Cairo
For Al-Shorfa.com
2010-01-12

Last week the government of Iran published a list of 60 websites that its intelligence services banned, accusing the sites of supporting a "soft war" against the Islamic regime.

The list includes the websites for Voice of America and BBC, the American Enterprise Institute, the Ford Foundation and the Soros Foundation. Any collaboration with any of the listed websites is considered criminal. The move is seen as an attempt by the government to diffuse the momentum of the opposition as street protests continue against the government and its leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

And this from just yesterday..Again...if Facebook and Twitter warrant a ban and government firewall, how the hell would they allow ATS?

Iranian Internet Disruptions May Be Sign of Iran's Own "Clean Internet" to Come

BY Raphael Majma | Wednesday, February 15 2012

What appear to be Iranian government efforts to interdict or inspect Internet traffic have come with increasing frequency in recent months.

Most recently, Iranian activists and journalists were the target of an anonymous Feb. 13 email “warning” that threatened them with punishment for working for the goals of foreigners.

“The email included a list of people’s names that the government received and they were accused of helping foreigners to achieve their goals,” said Fred Petrossian, a reporter for Global Voices. Within the email, the recipient is notified that they are not only on a list, but if their illegal activities continue they will be punished.

This is just the latest in what looks to be a series of measures by the Iranian government to control or curtail Internet use inside that country.

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Starting as early as Feb. 7, Iran Media Research reports, the Iranian government began blocking encrypted Internet traffic attempting to reach banned sites or get around the state-run firewall, an interdiction that by Monday had been greatly reduced. The New York Times' Jen Preston has also been following this story.

Iranian Internet users quickly found that access to popular social media sites and frequent tools of protestors, including Facebook and Twitter, were being blocked. Mehr, the semi-official Iranian news agency, reported that over 30 million users had been unable to access their Hotmail or Gmail email services. Users who attempted to access the blocked sites were met with error connections or were routed to Peyvandha, a list of links to content on the Internet that is acceptable by Iranian government standards.

techpresident.com...

SharpKnife

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 10:34 AM

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Anty thing related to democracy and free will is banned iran and the OP wants to say we have no freedoms in America...get real. Iran , china have to use VPN services to reach banned websites and it looks like they are cracking down on that to, Who knows what the punishment is for using a banned website over there...

edit on 17-2-2012 by SharpKnife because: (no reason given)

DoNotForgetMe

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 10:43 AM

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Reply to post by lonewolf19792000

TPTB have no intention of taking your guns, it's the ammunition for those guns that's in question. Outrageous tax? A limit on how much one person can have? That worthless piece of hemp the gun-lovers always bark about has NO stipulations on ammo. More money for TPTB if the focus is on the ammo. Say you have one case of bullets too many, then each bullet would be a charge. Just like each individual hit on a sheet of acid is a felony. My opinion, owning A gun is the right thing to do, but a pistol, shotgun or rifle, NO hunter needs an AK or a closet full of weapons to kill a deer. Deer don't shoot back. No need to go Rambo in the bush. Either way, one of 2 things will happen: The gun-lovers will turn out to be all bark no bite, or they will be shot down on their front porch. TPTB cannot be beaten with violence....unless you gun-lovers have friends who happen to be missile-lovers.

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

DoNotForgetMe

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 11:00 AM

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Reply to post by allprowolfy

We're not. I said this in another thread but I will say it here as well, the only freedom ya have is the freedom to blow your paycheck, after Capone, I mean IRS, takes a cut. Oh, don't forget about the numerous minor taxes you pay throughout the year. Tax on gasoline while Big Oil makes a billion dollar profit(and they get tax breaks btw), tax on tobacco products that harm us yet STILL OK to sale to us, tax on a car, tax on a house, tax on money won(can ya get a tax break on money lost?)...and guess what...hey....16 trillion in the red....oh yeah we are free. Free to be stupid.

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

harvib

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 11:08 AM

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reply to post by benevolent tyrant

Your posts' feel analogous to a person screaming from a jail cell on why their cell is better then the rest. They sit back and watch the brutalities committed to the other inmates. And when the exact same brutalities are committed in their own cell their mind tries to justify it and find reasons why it is not the same, i.e not as often, not as severe, it was deserved, etc.

You have cited several examples of the Iranian Governments brutalities but seem oblivious that for every example you have provided their is an equally severe and brutal rebuttal that happened in the US. You have made statements that indicate that you believe that the Iranian Government has a regime that is intent on silencing dissent. You state that Iranian dissenters have been incarcerated for years or worse and use this as evidence on why the Iranian Government and US Government are "night and day". Yet you appear oblivious that the same has happened and continues to happen here in the US.

I believe that both Stockholm syndrome and battered wife syndrome are the minds way of protecting itself. However that protection is counter productive if it stops us from contemplating our own escape.

EDIT TO ADD:

You proclaim this:

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
A freedom to assemble with your fellow citizens of like minds is a freedom that is also overlooked but one that is important and one that has, similarly been denied people over the ages.

Yet you admit this:

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
Yes, you do need a permit to picket or protest..... while you do have a right to demonstrate and voice your opinion, others also have a right not to have their rights infringed upon. This process allow for both parties to have their rights protected.

Just want to point out that you don't have a "right" or a "freedom" if you need to ask permission to use it.

edit on 17-2-2012 by harvib because: (no reason given)

theBigToe

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 11:31 AM

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reply to post by Indigo5

They can access ATS in Iran (and my friends dont have any kind of clearance from the Supreme Leader.) They both live in Tehran.

I checked with my friends and both of them said theyre able to with no problem. They cant see certain things though like youtube video embeds. Its weird that this site wouldnt be censored though, I will admit. Perhaps Ayatollah Khamenei and his thugs think this site is doing Iran more good then bad.

Wouldnt surprise me thanks to so many far left libs on here.