Dalai Lama: Conflicting Philosophies of World Religions

Originally posted by Jay-morris
I think people should look at tibet history under the delai lama rule.
Most of the people were slaves, tortured in horrible disgusting ways,
and staved. Its funny how the western media hide this and alot of
people believe that tibet was heaven on earth under lama rule. That
couldnt be further from the truth!

Delai lama is nothing more than a puppet.

edit on 14-2-2012 by Jay-morris because: (no reason given)

I have seen no evidence of this whatsoever except for a few slanderous articles in chinese newspapers and we all know the relationship between china and the dalai lama. Also there are poorly put together youtube videos showing still frame pictures out of context. Show me an unbiased source if you want me to believe you. Until then you have a good day sir or madam.

The LAMA is a false prophet... He teaches a gospel other than that of Jesus Christos.

Originally posted by seedofchucky
lol what about buddhism it self though ? That's just another branch of the same thing.

Its great for meditation and what not , but w hen you bring in buddha and enlightenment , you've done the same thing as religion . Promise something that nobody can seem to achieve .

People do "achieve" enlightenment. When a person's right amygdaloid and hippocampal activity goes past it's maximum threshold it burst across the brain to the left amygdala with enough force that it causes the synapses that inhibit right-to-left activation to drop out, including the synapses from the right hippocampus to the right amygdala. What this means is that all experiences evoke positive emotions. most of the right amybdala activity is shifted to the left. And most importantly the right hippocampus has more access to the left amybdala than the one right next to it. A person with a brain wired like this would be in a constant state of bliss, even with a gun at their head. it's just how they'd be wired. this happens a lot of times to people who have head injuires

also the nonlingustic self would be dominate. you'd be in a state of silent bliss, but you could still think of course if you wanted

Once upon a time there was a poor people who lived in serfdom in a land ruled by oppressive despots, but one day a neighboring country invaded, freed the serfs and cast the despots into exile.

Once upon a time there was a wise king, who ruled a serene land, but one day an evil empire invaded and cast him into exile from where he struggled for the freedom of his people for the rest of his life.

These are both the story of China's invasion of Tibet. The first one is factually correct, while the second one is the biased version most commonly associated with the plight of the Dalai Lama in the West. When you juxtapose these two stories, it is clear why China and the West disagree so vehemently about the role of the Dalai Lama. In the first story he is the villain and China the liberator of the people, in the other he is the hero and China the oppressor. But why is the Western perception so different than the Chinese?

A story must have its heroes and its villains, and when China took control of Tibet in the 1950's, they were already established as villains in Western eyes, because they were communists. That left the role of the hero to the Dalai Lama, who also gained the sympathetic role of the underdog against the great empire. If the CIA had not stepped in and supported the exiled Tibetan leaders, they would probably have suffered the same fate as other ousted dictators and faded into obscurity, but they proved to be a useful propaganda tool against the evil communists. So today the story of the of the wise king in exile perseveres, and Western heads of state are obliged to meet this wise king when he visits, or their public relations might suffer. It is an odd situation, because the Dalai Lama lacks anything that the West would normally account as legitimacy. He is not democratically elected, but is the last in a long line of theocratic leaders, and the West does not normally favor theocracy.

Granted the Government of Tibet in Exile has adopted some democratic traits of late, but can hardly claim any legitimacy to the governing of Tibet. The Dalai Lama has done an impressive job in promoting the myth of the wise king, but he has had amble help from the CIA, anti-communism, and a Western hunger for spirituality. When you look at the history of Tibetan Buddhism, you find that it is just as rich in oppression and corruption as Christianity and other religions, but has managed to get a pass as pacifist. I do not doubt that the Dalai Lama is a nice old man, and that there is useful wisdom in Buddhism, but it is time that we removed the black and white story prism we have been viewing the world through since the Cold War. China with all its potential and imperfections is an important partner of the West in shaping the future of our world, and a stable foundation for good relation needs to be established. The attitude towards China should not be based on old myths and animosities, but on the virtues of democracy. That includes letting Dalai Lama slip into obscurity as the relic of theocracy he is.

Stolen from here ...www..rustylime.com...

A different perspective from the main stream story, worth a read

reply to post by borntowatch


This is from someone's personal blog. Not a good source of information at all. I am genuinely asking for someone to provide factual evidence of said events, not hearsay. Are we really trying hard to deny ignorance here?

Originally posted by Redeemer
reply to post by borntowatch

 

This is from someone's personal blog. Not a good source of information at all. I am genuinely asking for someone to provide factual evidence of said events, not hearsay. Are we really trying hard to deny ignorance here?

What evidence, you show me your evidence.
All I am doing is suggesting you may have it wrong, why dont you come up with evidence to justify your point of view is correct. I am not siding with anyone, just relating an interesting article (from a website that I should have stated, I dont recommend for valid information) that suggests the OP is a little gray on his comment.
Its common knowledge Tibet had a religious inspired civil war.....or are you prepared to put NO personnel research in to this matter.

Deny ignorance indeed.
Just follow the pack if they say what you want to listen to??

This didnt take even 2 minutes of internet searching
www.michaelparenti.org...
Hope you are embarrassed by your laziness to research something so simple, shameful on your behalf in light of you suggesting we "Deny Ignorance"
Spoonfed like a child.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by Redeemer
reply to post by borntowatch

 

This is from someone's personal blog. Not a good source of information at all. I am genuinely asking for someone to provide factual evidence of said events, not hearsay. Are we really trying hard to deny ignorance here?

What evidence, you show me your evidence.
All I am doing is suggesting you may have it wrong, why dont you come up with evidence to justify your point of view is correct. I am not siding with anyone, just relating an interesting article (from a website that I should have stated, I dont recommend for valid information) that suggests the OP is a little gray on his comment.
Its common knowledge Tibet had a religious inspired civil war.....or are you prepared to put NO personnel research in to this matter.

Deny ignorance indeed.
Just follow the pack if they say what you want to listen to??

This didnt take even 2 minutes of internet searching
www.michaelparenti.org...
Hope you are embarrassed by your laziness to research something so simple, shameful on your behalf in light of you suggesting we "Deny Ignorance"
Spoonfed like a child.

edit on 15-2-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

Yay another blog! Certainly doesn't look like anything credible to me. Go go go propaganda machine! Want to go round and round forever with this? We're definitely on the right track for that now. The burden of proof isn't on me. It's on the ones making these claims. Or would you also like me to prove that the sky is blue?

reply to post by borntowatch


Also if all the evidence you have is 2 internet blogs then I think the proof speaks for itself. Why isn't there more proof than that? Because of a CIA cover up? Hilarious. If I see some good evidence then I'll have no choice to believe it but until then keep your blogs to yourself.

I suggest you READ THE REFERENCES listed in the second blog.
Thats how you research an article.

Hmmm, dont think this is worth my time.
68 references in the second article and you still question the BURDEN OF PROOF
Notes:

Mark Juergensmeyer, Terror in the Mind of God, (University of California Press, 2000), 6, 112-113, 157.
Kyong-Hwa Seok, "Korean Monk Gangs Battle for Temple Turf," San Francisco Examiner, 3 December 1998.
Los Angeles Times, February 25, 2006.
Dalai Lama quoted in Donald Lopez Jr., Prisoners of Shangri-La: Tibetan Buddhism and the West (Chicago and London: Chicago University Press, 1998), 205.
Erik D. Curren, Buddha's Not Smiling: Uncovering Corruption at the Heart of Tibetan Buddhism Today (Alaya Press 2005), 41.
Stuart Gelder and Roma Gelder, The Timely Rain: Travels in New Tibet (Monthly Review Press, 1964), 119, 123; and Melvyn C. Goldstein, The Snow Lion and the Dragon: China, Tibet, and the Dalai Lama (University of California Press, 1995), 6-16.
Curren, Buddha's Not Smiling, 50.
Stephen Bachelor, "Letting Daylight into Magic: The Life and Times of Dorje Shugden," Tricycle: The Buddhist Review, 7, Spring 1998. Bachelor discusses the sectarian fanaticism and doctrinal clashes that ill fit the Western portrait of Buddhism as a non-dogmatic and tolerant tradition.
Dhoring Tenzin Paljor, Autobiography, cited in Curren, Buddha's Not Smiling, 8.
Pradyumna P. Karan, The Changing Face of Tibet: The Impact of Chinese Communist Ideology on the Landscape (Lexington, Kentucky: University Press of Kentucky, 1976), 64.
See Gary Wilson's report in Worker's World, 6 February 1997.
Gelder and Gelder, The Timely Rain, 62 and 174.
As skeptically noted by Lopez, Prisoners of Shangri-La, 9.
Melvyn Goldstein, William Siebenschuh, and Tashì-Tsering, The Struggle for Modern Tibet: The Autobiography of Tashì-Tsering (Armonk, N.Y.: M.E. Sharpe, 1997).
Gelder and Gelder, The Timely Rain, 110.
Melvyn C. Goldstein, A History of Modern Tibet 1913-1951 (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1989), 5 and passim.
Anna Louise Strong, Tibetan Interviews (Peking: New World Press, 1959), 15, 19-21, 24.
Quoted in Strong, Tibetan Interviews, 25.
Strong, Tibetan Interviews, 31.
Gelder and Gelder, The Timely Rain, 175-176; and Strong, Tibetan Interviews, 25-26.
Gelder and Gelder, The Timely Rain, 113.
A. Tom Grunfeld, The Making of Modern Tibet rev. ed. (Armonk, N.Y. and London: 1996), 9 and 7-33 for a general discussion of feudal Tibet; see also Felix Greene, A Curtain of Ignorance (Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday, 1961), 241-249; Goldstein, A History of Modern Tibet, 3-5; and Lopez, Prisoners of Shangri-La, passim.
Strong, Tibetan Interviews, 91-96.
Waddell, Landon, O'Connor, and Chapman are quoted in Gelder and Gelder, The Timely Rain, 123-125.
Goldstein, The Snow Lion and the Dragon, 52.
Heinrich Harrer, Return to Tibet (New York: Schocken, 1985), 29.
See Kenneth Conboy and James Morrison, The CIA's Secret War in Tibet (Lawrence, Kansas: University of Kansas Press, 2002); and William Leary, "Secret Mission to Tibet," Air & Space, December 1997/January 1998.
On the CIA's links to the Dalai Lama and his family and entourage, see Loren Coleman, Tom Slick and the Search for the Yeti (London: Faber and Faber, 1989).
Leary, "Secret Mission to Tibet."
Hugh Deane, "The Cold War in Tibet," CovertAction Quarterly (Winter 1987).
George Ginsburg and Michael Mathos Communist China and Tibet (1964), quoted in Deane, "The Cold War in Tibet." Deane notes that author Bina Roy reached a similar conclusion.
See Greene, A Curtain of Ignorance, 248 and passim; and Grunfeld, The Making of Modern Tibet, passim.
Harrer, Return to Tibet, 54.
Karan, The Changing Face of Tibet, 36-38, 41, 57-58; London Times, 4 July 1966.
Gelder and Gelder, The Timely Rain, 29 and 47-48.
Tendzin Choegyal, "The Truth about Tibet," Imprimis (publication of Hillsdale College, Michigan), April 1999.
Karan, The Changing Face of Tibet, 52-53.
Elaine Kurtenbach, Associate Press report, 12 February 1998.
Goldstein, The Snow Lion and the Dragon, 47-48.
Curren, Buddha's Not Smiling, 8.
San Francisco Chonicle, 9 January 2007.
Report by the International Committee of Lawyers for Tibet, A Generation in Peril (Berkeley Calif.: 2001), passim.
International Committee of Lawyers for Tibet, A Generation in Peril, 66-68, 98.
im Mann, "CIA Gave Aid to Tibetan Exiles in '60s, Files Show," Los Angeles Times, 15 September 1998; and New York Times, 1 October, 1998.
News & Observer, 6 September 1995, cited in Lopez, Prisoners of Shangri-La, 3.
Heather Cottin, "George Soros, Imperial Wizard," CovertAction Quarterly no. 74 (Fall 2002).
Goldstein, The Snow Lion and the Dragon, 51.
Tendzin Choegyal, "The Truth about Tibet."
The Dalai Lama in Marianne Dresser (ed.), Beyond Dogma: Dialogues and Discourses (Berkeley, Calif.: North Atlantic Books, 1996)
These comments are from a book of the Dalai Lama's writings quoted in Nikolai Thyssen, "Oceaner af onkel Tom," Dagbladet Information, 29 December 2003, (translated for me by Julius Wilm). Thyssen's review (in Danish) can be found at www.information.dk...
"A Global Call for Human Rights in the Workplace," New York Times, 6 December 2005.
San Francisco Chronicle, 14 January 2007.
San Francisco Chronicle, 5 November 2005.
Times of India 13 October 2000; Samantha Conti's report, Reuter, 17 June 1994; Amitabh Pal, "The Dalai Lama Interview," Progressive, January 2006.
The Gelders draw this comparison, The Timely Rain, 64.
Michael Parenti, The Culture Struggle (Seven Stories, 2006).
John Pomfret, "Tibet Caught in China's Web," Washington Post, 23 July 1999.
Curren, Buddha's Not Smiling, 3.
Curren, Buddha's Not Smiling, 13 and 138.
Curren, Buddha's Not Smiling, 21.
Curren, Buddha's Not Smiling, passim. For books that are favorable toward the Karmapa appointed by the Dalai Lama's faction, see Lea Terhune, Karmapa of Tibet: The Politics of Reincarnation (Wisdom Publications, 2004); Gaby Naher, Wrestling the Dragon (Rider 2004); Mick Brown, The Dance of 17 Lives (Bloomsbury 2004).
Erik Curren, "Not So Easy to Say Who is Karmapa," correspondence, 22 August 2005, www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=22.1577,0,0,1,0.
Kim Lewis, correspondence to me, 15 July 2004.
Kim Lewis, correspondence to me, 16 July 2004.
Ma Jian, Stick Out Your Tongue (Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 2006).
See the PBS documentary, China from the Inside, January 2007, KQED.PBS.org/kqed/chinanside.
San Francisco Chronicle, 9 January 2007.
"China: Global Warming to Cause Food Shortages," People's Weekly World, 13 January 2007

Regardless of WHO is the devil or the saint in Tibet, it HAD BEEN 60 long years past.

60 long years for the illegitimate imperialist CCP China gov to prove themselves worthy for the mandate of Tibet.

BUT had they proven themselves better admistrators? Or had they only proven themselves worse than barbarians, hideously imported foreign labour and land/resources grabbing in Tibet, mercilessly killing and torturing Tibetans today?

Do not let the past confuse you. LOOK at the PRESENT, and then form your own judgement.

Tibet is only a small nation and the Tibetans are only seeking for help, largely fighting on their own against the brutal and corrupt CCP overlords. Are the rest of fellow humans around the world to be continually silent, ignoring our moral compass, over the sufferings of the Tibetans there today?

reply to post by borntowatch


Look up "serfdom in tibet" on wikipedia if you want to see how this just goes in circles. I don't feel like quoting the article and maybe this isn't worth my time either but I am pretty sure that China isn't the great liberator that they claim to be.

Originally posted by Redeemer

Originally posted by Jay-morris
I think people should look at tibet history under the delai lama rule.
Most of the people were slaves, tortured in horrible disgusting ways,
and staved. Its funny how the western media hide this and alot of
people believe that tibet was heaven on earth under lama rule. That
couldnt be further from the truth!

Delai lama is nothing more than a puppet.

edit on 14-2-2012 by Jay-morris because: (no reason given)

I have seen no evidence of this whatsoever except for a few slanderous articles in chinese newspapers and we all know the relationship between china and the dalai lama. Also there are poorly put together youtube videos showing still frame pictures out of context. Show me an unbiased source if you want me to believe you. Until then you have a good day sir or madam.

You are joking right? You dont have to look at chinese sources to know the truth about tibet and the terrible way the people were treated. Go look yourself, you wont have to look far, believe me!

It annoys the hell out of me when people fail to do their own research, and just believes the western propaganda BS!

reply to post by Jay-morris

It annoys the hell out of me when people fail to do their own research, and just believes the western propaganda BS!

And it annoys me when someone rejects one line of propaganda and swallows another whole. China is trying to be a world power. You cannot excuse their imperialism while decrying others. If you justify China's illegal invasion of Tibet, you cannot condemn America's illegal invasion of Iraq. That is the definition of hypocrisy.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

It annoys the hell out of me when people fail to do their own research, and just believes the western propaganda BS!

And it annoys me when someone rejects one line of propaganda and swallows another whole. China is trying to be a world power. You cannot excuse their imperialism while decrying others. If you justify China's illegal invasion of Tibet, you cannot condemn America's illegal invasion of Iraq. That is the definition of hypocrisy.

Like i have said to you in the other thread. Since when was most of the iraq people staving or enslaved? How can you even say that iraq was like Tibet is beyond me!

And the poster who i responded too just proved my point about western media painting tibet as some heaven on earth before chinese rule. Are you going to tell him he is wrong when you know he is, i doubt it very much.

reply to post by Jay-morris

Like i have said to you in the other thread. Since when was most of the iraq people staving or enslaved? How can you even say that iraq was like Tibet is beyond me!

Iraqis were arrested without charge and tortured. Isn't that the sort of thing you find objectionable? You need to develop a stronger skin if you're going to side with a wanna be superpower. China is investing in developing countries in Africa. The inevitable result of this is that the rich there will get richer and the poor will get angry. Eventually, there will be civil war and people will talk about how great things were before the Chinese came and ruined everything. Deal with it. The US has been dealing with it for 50 years now. When revolutionary (or counter-revolutionary, or counter-counter-revolutionary) forces start seizing Chinese assets in Africa, let's see how the Chinese government deals with it. Britain chose to depose Mossadegh when he seized British assets in Iran. Judging by their behavior in Tibet, I doubt the Chinese will just smile and say: "Oh well, easy come, easy go."

Luckily buddhism is a metaspiritual philosophy of the universe

whereas "World Religions" are some concoction of stories about things God "told" chosen people

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Like i have said to you in the other thread. Since when was most of the iraq people staving or enslaved? How can you even say that iraq was like Tibet is beyond me!

Iraqis were arrested without charge and tortured. Isn't that the sort of thing you find objectionable? You need to develop a stronger skin if you're going to side with a wanna be superpower. China is investing in developing countries in Africa. The inevitable result of this is that the rich there will get richer and the poor will get angry. Eventually, there will be civil war and people will talk about how great things were before the Chinese came and ruined everything. Deal with it. The US has been dealing with it for 50 years now. When revolutionary (or counter-revolutionary, or counter-counter-revolutionary) forces start seizing Chinese assets in Africa, let's see how the Chinese government deals with it. Britain chose to depose Mossadegh when he seized British assets in Iran. Judging by their behavior in Tibet, I doubt the Chinese will just smile and say: "Oh well, easy come, easy go."

edit on 15-2-2012 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)

Again, look up how many tibetans were unslaved,tortured, and starved to death under lama rule. Yes, bad stuff did happen in iraq, and other countries for that matter, but you are ignorant if you think they are on the same scale as the disgusting things that happen in Tibet under lama rule.

You may slag China off, but you are again ignorant if you think America is perfect and peace keeper of the planet. The iraq war was illegal, and was nothing to do with helping the people. If thats the case, why dont they go into other countries, say N korea. Why is it always the mddle east?

And China are not a wannabe super-power. Chances are, they will be the next super-power, either them or India. You talk about china unrest. You can see the same things happening all over the world, yes including America, so don't be ignorant of that fact, like you have been ignorant of many facts i posted in the last thread.

You have never stepped foot in China, and all your news is from western media. I have lived and travelled china. So while i know china is not perfect, far from it, like most countries, i can see alot of the western propaganda aimed at China.

A good example was the video you posted showing chinese police beating tibetans, the video poster failed to post footage of the tibetan rioters violence, that included beatings, looting, killings, and burning down business. And when i told you this, you simpley ignored what i said, like you ignored most of my posts.

reply to post by crankyoldman


I celebrated with the Tibetans’ in Dhamsala (Dali Lamas home town in exile) on his acceptance of the noble peace prise. Such a beautiful man and a beautiful people.

I listen to his words in this video and must ask the people here – who could have delivered this message better? Do you think his holiness the pope could or would speak with such humility? Would accept Islam as a proper path to God?

His message was delivered from a state of love. Are you so blind that you can not see? Free yourselves, your thoughts are causing a distortion of what is. It seems that a negative emotion has a hold of you – whatever it is, however you choose to achieve it. Can we agree that love will set you free?

Or can you tell me that these words in these posts are inspired and written from a state of love? This man can teach you how to do this, who else do you know of that can do this? Who’s way encompasses this?

May peace be in your hearts, may we all find our self love and meet the world from this place.

reply to post by Jay-morris

You may slag China off, but you are again ignorant if you think America is perfect and peace keeper of the planet. The iraq war was illegal, and was nothing to do with helping the people. If thats the case, why dont they go into other countries, say N korea. Why is it always the mddle east?

Did I say the invasion of Iraq was legal? No. Did I say America was perfect? No. Are you saying the Chinese invasion of Tibet was legal? Are you saying it was only done to help the Tibetan people? Your hypocrisy is blatant; you condemn American imperialism while lauding Chinese imperialism.

im am disturbed by the rude comments towards this man :O

Such sick and closed down individuals on this site... im gone.

MoDs is you see this PLEASE delete my account (again), I no longer want anything to do with this ignorant site.

Goodbye.