Dalai Lama: Conflicting Philosophies of World Religions

reply to post by crankyoldman


When China invaded Tibet, he fled to India.

If he had stayed, there would have been more death and destruction.

The Tibetan military could not win against China.

It would not make sense for him to have stayed in Tibet and then been killed.

Originally posted by Tasmanaut
reply to post by seedofchucky

 

Buddha said: "I consider the positions of kings and rulers as that of dust motes. I observe treasures of gold and gems as so many bricks and pebbles. I look upon the finest silken robes as tattered rags. I see myriad worlds of the universe as small seeds of fruit, and the greatest lake in India as a drop of oil on my foot. I perceive the teachings of the world to be the illusion of magicians. I discern the highest conception of emancipation as a golden brocade in a dream, and view the holy path of the illuminated ones as flowers appearing in one's eyes. I see meditation as a pillar of a mountain, Nirvana as a nightmare of daytime. I look upon the judgment of right and wrong as the serpentine dance of a dragon, and the rise and fall of beliefs as but traces left by the four seasons."

I'm not trying to pick a fight or be a smarty pants at all here, I'm just trying to point out that perhaps where you see a conflicting opinion here there is in fact a unity underlying what you are all saying.

'People dedicate their lives to reach enlightenment only to fail , then on their dying beds , they say "well maybe i didn't try hard enough " ' It's just so damn ironic. I simply cannot describe it, but I'll try and look like a idiot. Say you are completely non-religious, and non-spiritual. On your death bed you simply die, and then there is 'nothing'. In doing so, you've pretty much reached the state you say is impossible to achieve in life, and maybe it is, but will you not achieve it through dieing? This is going to sound stupider and stupider now. Is this state of nothingness not the 'emptiness' and such that is the cosmic source? is this not the state the buddha claimed was possible to achieve during life? Whether it is possible or not to achieve in life, whether it is a worthless pursuit because we all ultimately die and return to nothing, at the very least, the mind can be stilled to some degree, and a great deal of insight can be gained, including the acceptance of death itself... my idiotic explanation is over

What does enlightenment mean for you? Is it flow of mana/chi? Is it seeing with the thrid eye like synchronicty? Out of body experiance? Is it becoming one of the shiny happy people? Who can say that they have failed on their deathbead? The answer is afterwards. I belive in reincarnation and evolution and service to the 1 that is All. From this viewpoint can I ever fai?. I can go backwards a life and create bad karma that I have to fix as I will always do. So I might have to run up the same hill again another life. Whatever I did in my last life to get here was prohbably a big screw up . If I could kick "the me" that I was in my previous life in the ass I would. It is not a race and I have all the time in existance to get it right. Check this video out if you wanna see a theory on how the brain works when it gets enlightened vimeo.com... . It makes a lot of sense since for me it explains how some people get enlightened (and I mean being able to feel the blissstate) thru depression and some thru mastery of mind/being. You can probably end up at the same place thru both roads. From my point of view all road leads eventually to awakeening (from the dream forced on you) and enlightment but some take many lifes to get there. Or maybe some just enjoy lifes and don't worry at all without caring about ego and duality. Namaste

reply to post by seedofchucky


I am also in support of unconditional freedom for all of mankind. No infringement of Free Will or oppression of anyone. I understand established religion to be a control mechanism. A mechanism to control the masses with conceptualizations of the formless and timeless.

However, this thread is about the acceptance of religious and philosophical diversity. If you have such a bone to pick with the Dalai Lama, Buddha, or Buddhism how about you spew your facts in a thread that addresses those issues. I'm really tired of people's inability to stay on topic here at ATS.

Originally posted by ManjushriPrajna
Indeed he has every right. I also have the right to ignore his negativity, and in this thread I will no longer try to discuss with him why my mind isn't so "clouded" as he makes it out to be.

Back to the topic at hand. I think we (the world) are making great steps towards an understanding that, despite these philosophies and philosophies within philosophies concerning religion, that those good people in all religions want the same thing: Happiness, happiness for all.

Yes, happiness, to which I would add LIBERATION wherein happiness dwells, as the domain of freedom, to be freely self expressed and to freely love as we are loved and are love itself, at core. And if we were to add to Absolute Love for all (if you can't love everyone, then you cannot REALLY love anyone in particular, one's self included, since love reserved for some but witheld from others isn't really love at all, but some sort of idolatrous worship), Absolute Forgiveness, as its corollary, then we've just encapsulated the Christian ethos in a nutshell, since such a love also breeds peace and happiness, not of the world (fallen societal structure of "dog eat dog"), but from the incorruptible center and source of all, in God, which is what it means to be "reborn from above", not of the flesh (corruptible and temporary), but of the spirit which informs all creation, including the body, but now I'm running on too much I suppose..

My aim, in short, is to seed the world with the kind of seeds which will make the world worth living into, both for me, others, and for all generations (which may even include me then as well), and that's bodhisatva-like, or is that a "sacriledge" to leclare one's self-other interest in alignment with being and becoming a bodgisatva? Screw it, if this is my hearts desire, and if I'm willing to return as many times as needed to this place to realize our individual and collective happiness, then indeed I AM a bodhisatva.

To thine own self be true, and that's humility. Aside from unfounded arrogance, there is nothing more arrogant and repulsive, than false humility, imho!

Best Regards,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


We are on a Forum Board. There are many sub-categories, and many threads that are already arguing religion and religious figures. This forum board allows one to even create their own thread.

So, why not go argue in one of the religious argument threads or make a thread of his own?

If I, being a non-Christian, have a complaint against the Bible, Apostle Paul, or Christianity, should I barge in a Sunday Worship service with my arguments against Christianity? Or should I state my mind in the proper platform?

The forum boards here are big enough to have freedom of speech in one's own thread or a debate type thread.

The OP is accepting and understanding religious and philosophical diversity. Is staying on topic such a hard difficult concept to understand?

reply to post by Sahabi

Relax, but just, for a moment, setting aside your point, which is valid, consider that his view is part of the whole array which forms the tapestry, and his view is that enligtened masters as leaders suck freedom of expression and liberty FROM the system, and set traps for people, and who may even gain for themselves by feeding off the energy of followers, which has a certain predatory nature, at odds with the very principals they aspouse, a POV worth considering, although where would humanity be without such great lights... who knows, maybe we'd ALL be "enlightened" by now..? He may have a good point is all I'm saying.

Who sanctioned the Dali Lama with his status? Was their a vote? Was he spoken to by god? If hes the self awakened one..then what helped him be awakened? The teachings of Buddha? If he did self awake from Buddhas teaching, why only him? Why cant everyone be Dali Lama?

I think people should look at tibet history under the delai lama rule.
Most of the people were slaves, tortured in horrible disgusting ways,
and staved. Its funny how the western media hide this and alot of
people believe that tibet was heaven on earth under lama rule. That
couldnt be further from the truth!

Delai lama is nothing more than a puppet.

Free Will is not about allowing someone to just derail a thread with off-topic attacks because they want to. The person "practicing" their free will and free speech by derailing a thread is actually infringing upon the free will of others! Free Will is figuring out a way where everyone can win without infringing upon each other.

• Free Will is allowing the op to discuss unity and accepting religious and philosophical diversity in this thread. OP did not introduce argumentation, nor did the op ask others for arguments against Buddha, Buddhism, or the Dalai Lama. Introducing such arguments is an infringement upon op's free will because he/she did not ask for it.

• Free Will is allowing others to create their own threads about why they are in opposition to Buddha, Buddhism, or the Dalai Lama. None are violated in such a thread, because the initial intent is to debate, influence, and argue.


In the manners of forum posting, going off topic is an unaaceptable derailment. It is not hard to argue in a debate thread or make your own topic instead of derailing a thread. Stay on topic or go post in the appropriate thread.

In the universal laws of free will, if you give information when not asked it is an infringement upon the person's free will to not know.


I am not a Buddhist. I am not protecting the Dalai Lama. I am just tired of off-topic derailments.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Everyone coming in this thread may have valid points to argue against the Dalai Lama, Buddha, or Buddhism. I am not in favor of religious or philosophical control figures. All I'm saying is that the op and the specific video in the op were ONLY discussing accepting diversity. Period. Nothing else. So in this thread we should be discussing that.

Do we have something to say about Buddhism being a false religion? The Dalai Lama being an imposter, a CIA agent, or an unenlightened fool? Any personal attacks against the Dalai Lama? Then we should make separate threads for those issues so that we are all on the same topic.

Dear Sahabi and ManjushriPrajna,

Forgive me if I improperly assign you to the same camp, but you strike me as kindred spirits.

I applaud and support the position you've taken and the methods you've used to express yourselves. "Deny Ignorance" is a fine slogan, but I would far rather have wisdom than knowledge. I would vastly prefer to know the truth about God and His universe, than the truth about Nibiru, ETs, 9/11, or the Illuminati.

Searching for the universal truth is a little like prospecting for gold from the stream of life. There are some who do it, and all who do are richly rewarded. There are others who take a great and perverse pleasure in childishly dumping mud on the stream and the prospector.

Truth can be found in every place and in every heart. I have come to believe that it is found more abundantly and completely in some places than others, but it is foolishness to disregard the truth we are shown in whatever place.

We will all be asked "Did you seek and embrace Truth?" Those who say "No" will face penalties infinitely greater than any that a Mod can dispense.

ManjushriPrajna, Sahabi, and all others of good will, please accept the company of another traveller.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by ManjushriPrajna


yeah, the budhist (spelling) are ones to talk, they love riding the middle of the fence. ask one if there is a GOD and they say maybe maybe not, never yes or no, It is even in their text's just never anything definite I tried budhism (spelling) for a few years and it is a luke warm kind of a thing that I did not like very well.

reply to post by Wildbob77


I'm familiar with the myth, this story can be told for countless leaders, but most are leaders by divine right or election, so when the ship/country goes down their loyalty can be shifted. Few are said to lead by reincarnated legacy, for which the myth behind that appointment suggests the highest of orders. He simply walked away, and while the myth contends it was to save his people, it could be said that staying might have saved them too if he was of the highest order as he claims.

Further, Tibet isn't the spiritual center of the world and their deposed leader isn't the exiled spiritual leader of the greatest of people - their human rights issues are well documented, then and now. They are people just like the rest of us, somewhat different but not much.

I'm only pointing out that is it really curious that he left. I do believe it is very possible the real Lama didn't leave at all. It is said Saddam had several body doubles, it fact, many, including his wife, suggest the guy who was hung was in fact a body double and the Saddam fled after handing over the keys to Iraq to the US. So it is possible the same happened in the Lama's case.

I find it just bizarre that the highest Lama would leave with the help of the CIA, then spend the majority of his life hanging with sycophants and celebrities while spouting some of the most infantile spiritual advice in the most meekly manner possible.

imagine how the world would be changed if all the christian religions could be unified in their charity work???

reply to post by mcamp2011


Maybe is the only logical and sane answer. If anyone says the know whether there is a God or not, they are lying or delusional. You can have faith either way but you cannot KNOW.

reply to post by ManjushriPrajna


Have any of the Dalai Lama detractors ever met or seen the man up close in person?

I'm no Follower, as the long term members know, but I can tell you from experience, that you know nothing about him until you have the Experience of this small man. I saw him once as his motorcade was stopped in traffic.. I was righ beside him as he sat in the front passenger seat of the car.. as our eyes met, we smiled and I "got" a massively powerful rush of loving energy from him. I understood in that split second that he recognised me from other times.

I do not care if anyone thinks I am lying.. for whatever reason one owuld think that. I do not care what any thinks about my experience ..fullstop. As I am not a newbie to the spirutal realms, I know what I know from direct experience.. not from anyone's Belief-System.

On Topic... religion will always argue over who is the right one until all realise they each only hold one miniscule part of the bigger picture truth and not the whol thing. Then we may see some coming together to leanr NEW ways grow and awaken that work for the majority of people.

Enlightenment is, like everything else, misunderstood. It is ONLY the ability to open yourself up to the Light, and thus are more effective in choosing to operate in your human experience with the increased memory of the Soul you are... and that is all there is to it.

Anyone can 'attain' enlightenment. It's not like a trophy you win and always have ever after.. it is something that must be chosen in each moment in order to to continue Remembering what You are and Why You are Here in this Now.

Sorry for any unintended offence.

reply to post by Tayesin

May I support your experience? One woman in my family served lunch to Mother Theresa, another received an award for Catholic school teaching directly from the Pope. They both report the same experience you had.

This love, and its source, is the wisdom I spoke about earlier. It is the gold we are given. (I know that makes little sense, but I had to say it anyway.)

reply to post by charles1952


Thank you Charles.

Gold would be a perfect description, although not in the material sense as you know.

Originally posted by theubermensch
I wish the Dalai Lama would shut the hell up.

While you're entitled to your own opinion as we all are, this just seemed hateful. Would you care to elaborate on why you feel this way? Did you come to this thread just to say that? It seems pointless to do so.

I cant believe the ATS animosity towards him. Once he said dont believe me...go back to your OWN religions and be the BEST THEY want you to be and believe in what THEY teach. All the worlds religions NEED you to participate in yours and what it believes.

You dont have to believe him. You dont have to like him. You dont have to care about what he thinks...or what he does. Does it affect you? Do you live and die by what he says? Do you hang on or wait in anticipation of his next words or councel? Why even care?

Unless youre Buddist or accept his philosophies...it doesnt matter if he's Buddist, Catholic, Atheist, Protestant, Muslim, Shinto, Jehovahs Witness...or anything else.

But as a leader to HIS people and to those who have a right to believe in an English multilanguage speaking, college educated Doctorate possessor...we all at least owe him and his thousands...yes thousands of years of leadership to his religion...some respect.

Just nod to an intellegent man and accept his intellegence. Just that. Dont believe. Its not required.

We pick apart the Whitneys and Dali Lama...great. Whats that say for a "civilized" society? Next it will be YouTUBE is the BIBLE and KORAN! I GOOGLED IT!

Some of you should be ashamed. I am for you. Your asses are showing.

Troll that.....