Occupy Wall street, we are witnessing social revolution.

The Proletariat VS. The Bourgeoisie, lower class VS. the upper class. Class antagonism. I am not an advocate of Communism (I don't know enough about it yet), but we are witnessing what Marx wrote about in the first pages of the Communist Manifesto having to do with class antagonism and social revolution.

The Bourgeoisie are the owners of the means of production. I interpret this as being those that own the factories, the machines, and the ones that employ the work force. This also includes the bankers that everyone on here talks about.

The Proletarians are the lower class, the ones that have to sell their labor to sustain themselves. They don't own any of the means of production of goods and services. This is the 99%.

We know now, because it is becoming increasingly self evident, that Capitalism does not work. This system has class antagonism and division built right into it. As the bourgeoisie have amassed for themselves more wealth and more influence, we see today how the lower class, the proletariat, are increasingly being subjected to the will of the upper. It appears they would like to make slaves of us all. Capitalism has, in the name of profit and self-gain, built into it methods of brutal exploitation. We see this going on around the world. The ones being exploited are you and me, we work endlessly to sustain ourselves at the mercy of the upper class, who provide to us in exchange for our labor just enough to sustain ourselves, while they sit on millions of dollars, incredible amounts of financial resources, probably more than they even know what to do with.

Now, I see some people on here seem to be disfavorable of the Occupy movement, for reasons I have witnessed are rather trivial. In a failing system such as the one we live under right now, social change ought to be embraced. We know society today has major problems, and we know it can be a lot better. You have to understand the ones that benefit from this system will do anything they can to stay in positions of influence and power. Consequently I see us reaching critical mass in the near future, I think things are going to get a lot worse and the civil unrest a lot greater, so it's expected that America turns into a police state. They will do all they can to stay in power, like Jacque Fresco said, "this is the only system that perpetuates their kind".

I also am aware that our individualistic culture has a strong tendency to lean towards criticism, mistrust and overall divisiveness. I know how hard it is to get over long standing habits and prejudices, I believe all these things are a product of our social system, which has resulted in the overall feel of the whole culture. I don't have all the answers and I am just a young man trying to understand what's going on around me in the world. It's obvious to me that this system does not work, I believe awareness is the first step and we should do all we can to change it. How do we get over our petty differences and unite towards a common cause? I don't know. I wish I did know, perhaps a unification will come gradually, but the stakes are high, war is so easy to get in to it seems and whats worse we have the technology now to completely destroy ourselves and the Earth

Occupy wall street is the beginning of a major revolutionary social change as we see now our great American empire is on its way out the door, so that leaves to be asked, what's next?

These are just some thoughts I've been having a lot lately and thought I'd share them here.

Occupy Wall Street FAILED because of drivel similar to yours.

"Capitalism"?

Originally posted by RadioactiveRob
I believe awareness is the first step and we should do all we can to change it.

Yes it is and more and more of the 99% are waking up.

But like anyone suffering from a psychological disorder, awareness is the first step.
We the 99% should influence the 1% and make them see that what they do isn't right for us AND them.

Very rich people aren't happier and I want to make those people happy too, make the 100% happy.
Most are not evil, just disillusioned.

reply to post by PaxVeritas


what are you refering to? drivel?

anywho to the OP, communism is not the solution to the troubles in our current system, there is reason they lost the cold war.
i am a supporter of the OWSR however i would like to clairify there has been many uprisings in the past i just hope the movements inspired by OWS can contiue and pervade meaning over the hearts of the people and cause change to the system, not many other movements in history have caused meaningful change to the tyranny and monopoly of the systems operators, TPTB

The optimism and wishful thinking is really quite interesting to follow, but I believe the current events are showing Occupy to have turned out as what not to do in social change.

I DO hope the good people that formed the core of it a couple months ago and who weren't hard core, over the top ideologues can help form another movement with those on the right side of center.

At the moment though, the only news that the VAST majority of America even hears about Occupy is 100% bad and the video clips shown from above always seem to look like rioters run amok these days. Nothing like the organized protest camps of the early days.

Together and working toward the same limited goals which are common to both sides, some real change could come. Anything short of both sides working together will just be false hope among one side and amusement to the other. Nothing changes and the politicians always have a fresh set of talking points.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

At the moment though, the only news that the VAST majority of America even hears about Occupy is 100% bad and the video clips shown from above always seem to look like rioters run amok these days. Nothing like the organized protest camps of the early days.

But here on ATS you are all too smart for that sort of programming, aren't you?

Bravo, you've put my feelings about our current system into words.

Now our only problem lies in finding a better system that actually works; one that's not a total pipe dream as is communism.

equality and free net working of resources is a start to the solution.no country should have more energy,goods or shelter then another. when that is understood and accepted,then we will start to see some real evolotion as a species.ownership and commerce is were the problem is at.(follow the money trail)take money value out of the equation.instead put individual availability in its place yes also conservation of our resources. like being stranded on a island.would you over use the resources?would you charge some one for food,shelter or goods on a emergency of the likes? is exactly what the problem is.eevery one working for the survival of all and in need of his fellow man to survive.balance and equality of all resources for all and based on needs not luxury.did some one say money is the root of all evil? i think it is,since it is something all humans do not have to contribute to the ship and when his contributions is undermind by it.apathy follows and many other feelings and actions.if the cells of a anus just stopped working or any other organ the whole of the body suffers the danger of diying.when i say equality for all,i mean for all on a global scale.all pyarmids should be radicated from earth,net working is the future.look how peacefull a tree is and strong,yet we try to resemble other animal species like ants and bees.in my opinion!.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
At the moment though, the only news that the VAST majority of America even hears about Occupy is 100% bad and the video clips shown from above always seem to look like rioters run amok these days. Nothing like the organized protest camps of the early days.

Much like the Counter Culture movement of a half century ago, the Occupy movement has scared the crap out of TPTB, and they are doing everything they can to discredit the whole thing. And they have plenty of mindless drones to infiltrate and disrupt.

Of course the MSM doesn't say anything good about the movement; they are nothing more than corporate mouthpieces.

Nothing changes and the politicians always have a fresh set of talking points.

Sadly, all too true. And the mindless morons keep re-electing the same bunch of crooks like Bohner, Kantor, etc. So of course nothing has changed. Yet.

Hard to say if the Occupy movement will survive this attack by TPTB... the Counter Culture movement, while still alive, was successfully repressed. We can but hope. And support the Occupy movement to the best of our individual abilities.

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
Occupy Wall Street FAILED because of drivel similar to yours.

"Capitalism"?

edit on 11-2-2012 by PaxVeritas because: (no reason given)

Failed? Not at all. It woke up a lot of people that to the idea that perhaps something is wrong with this country. That the corruption in the government that favors the wealthy corporations and individuals over the majority of the Americans is wrong. That perhaps the growing income disparity is something to be questioned instead of pretending that benefits will somehow trickle down to the average American through job creation while the jobs are being exported to other countries.

Sure the camps are being broken up, but the feeling that something is wrong in this country still persists. When you see Republican nominees talking about income disparity instead of the normal trickle down and how the wealthy are suffering, you know something is changing.

Great OP. I think that while many people say they don't know what Occupy wants or they want too much or they are going about things in the wrong way, it's undeniable they have woken many within the sleeping masses. I think a lot of people are finding themselves agreeing with the movement even as they speak against it.

That aside, I think socially we haven't ever seen a system that can resist corruption, we've never really seen Communism or Anarchism in their true forms and I think that is because we aren't evolved enough for those, yet. I think we very much still need laws and governance. Capitalism has devolved into Corporatism or even selective communism and we haven't seen it in it's true form either or at least not for quite a long time. Capitalism I think is still our best option for our current brains so that means we need to fix it.

Any social system has to be regulated but what we are seeing now, is our system is full of regulations that are designed to make people resent regulations with the intention of favoring no regulations. We are also seeing regulations that are designed to benefit the few and hold back the little guy, as well as the few common sense regulations that we do have being bribed away.

It is up to us to fix this. It is up to us to temper ourselves and not go too far and tear the whole system down. It's our fault that things got this bad, we let ourselves get lazy and distracted and foolishly believed that the deck wouldn't be stacked against us in our apathetic slumber.

Marx was wrong. They had to improve his ideas, either through Leninism, Fabianism, or Cultural Marxism to establish the conditions for Marx's theories to be put in practice. Research the Frankfurt school. Take away religion and society falls apart.

I agree with the OP,this is why I advocate that humanity as a hole adopt a more sustainable approach to the world,where we all have access to resources,since that's what's important not money,and which in the lack of thereof it causes needless suffering in the world.That system is a Resource Based Economy.

Today we have the technologies to build a system that actually takes care of the hole of humanity and not just a few like in capitalism.

I'd like to recommend anyone interested in such a system to check out the following videos:

www.zeitgeistmovingforward.com... - A great presentation of the flaws of today's system and the bad influence it has in our values,society and education as a hole.

While this following video brings a good summary of what a Resource Based Economy is all about.


As well as this one:



These videos offer a basic education of the problems of our world and how we may have a choice to change all that.

Also a brief presentation of what education in a Resource Based Economy would be like:

tzmeducation.org...

but the poorest member of the 99% can rise to the upper half. probably not the 1%, but certainly into the top 25%

I'd like to keep that system thank you

the problem with the US system is the top 1% can literally buy the gov't, and have the rules made to favor them, and then escape punishment even after they ruin the WORLDS economy

occupy should be at the steps of congress, and the offices of the lobbyists

that is where the problem lies

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
Occupy Wall Street FAILED because of drivel similar to yours.

"Capitalism"?

edit on 11-2-2012 by PaxVeritas because: (no reason given)

Before you laugh at your own lie, why dont you realize that it has not failed. In many ways they may have given themselves a bad name, but failure? No way. What they are protesting IS getting through to the higher ups. It may take time to accomplish their demands but 1 by 1 you will start seeing the cookie crumble.

These very manipulated movements existed in the late 19th/early 20th century too. Then, as now, "people's movements" are convenient means to use the rabble to further empower the elite.
Occupy is a sham. Wake up.

The only possible way that "labor"can not be the "means of production" is if they willingly surrender their labor to employment on a collective level, and absolutely refuse to negotiate the price of their labor on an individual level. This thread is as simplistic and naive as Marx was. Class struggle exists for classes. Those who do not participate in classes do not participate in class struggle.

Workers of the world get a clue!

reply to post by bumpufirst

equality and free net working of resources is a start to the solution.no country should have more energy,goods or shelter then another. when that is understood and accepted,then we will start to see some real evolotion as a species.ownership and commerce is were the problem is at.

OH, that’s classic! So “no country should have more” resources than another and “ownership and commerce” are keeping humans from evolving?? BAH..hahahahah!

So collectivism is the answer to the world’s problems? So if one man is lazy and never leaves his couch, that man should have the same standard of living as his neighbor who is motivated and productive? So should we also distribute the wealth of prosperous nations to 3rd world countries to bring them up to par?? These steps would elevate our species to the next level?

Please explain how these things could possibly be sustainable when all you would be doing is incentivizing people and nations to be lazy and WAIT FOR THE EQUALITY to magically show up?

Originally posted by Kali74
That aside, I think socially we haven't ever seen a system that can resist corruption, we've never really seen Communism or Anarchism in their true forms and I think that is because we aren't evolved enough for those, yet. I think we very much still need laws and governance. Capitalism has devolved into Corporatism or even selective communism and we haven't seen it in it's true form either or at least not for quite a long time. Capitalism I think is still our best option for our current brains so that means we need to fix it.

I agree that no system has ever resisted corruption. However, whatever ideal systemic utopia you favor, reality will always fall short.

Communism or anarchism in their true forms simply isn't possible- and it has nothing to do with evolution. Communism by its nature favors direct democracy, or a tyranny of the majority (aka- dictatorship of the proletariat). What happens when you're one of the always sizable minority who doesn't agree with the majority? You'll cause trouble. The majority won't like it and attempt to nicely re-educate you to see their light. When that fails, you'll be killed. Hence, millions of the minority dissenters are killed in the name of enlightenment. True anarchy is never possible- and only exists as a transitory state. People by their very nature form even primitive forms of government.

I also agree that capitalism has devolved into corporatism, but I disagree that there is a selective communist element there. Any seemingly communist elements you see in our system are more accurately termed as fascist. There is a little overlap between certain elements in communism and fascism and always has been.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
but the poorest member of the 99% can rise to the upper half. probably not the 1%, but certainly into the top 25%

I'd like to keep that system thank you

the problem with the US system is the top 1% can literally buy the gov't, and have the rules made to favor them, and then escape punishment even after they ruin the WORLDS economy

occupy should be at the steps of congress, and the offices of the lobbyists

that is where the problem lies

The problem is the elites, yes, its the banks and corporations that run this #ing world that are the problem. Its the federal reserve. Its the IMF. Its the World bank. Its the Bank of internal settlements. Its the corrupt governments with corporate CEO's running them.
No one from the 99% can get into the top 10% without some severe luck. If you have a good idea and you make millions on that idea, that is awesome!
But there is NO CHANCE of making that kind of money in a corporate setting. In 10 years if i continue to work where i work (in a corporate setting), i will probably be making maybe 2 or 3 thousand more than i do right now. Seems awesome to get to the top right?

This system needs to be fixed period. gaining wealth is not an issue. when you control the world with that wealth is when it becomes a problem.
Like today.
I agree OP. Some of these people just do not get the OWS movement, they think its all about jobs and that they have completed nothing. Ignorance my friends, that is all i have to say. We will hit a critical mass, and TPTB are going to try to invoke a police state, and we will -destroy them- and remove them from this planet and replace government and the economy in hands of people qualified and cabable of working it for the benefit of everyone on this planet, instead of just the west and the elite.

People say "Oh, but we're okay here! We're not like africa and having most of our population starve!!", to which i reply "You know that the reason most african countries are poor is because their leaders accepted a corrupted loan that would never be paid off, and now they cannot afford the basic necessities of life even though MOST of the wealth on the planet comes from the african continent (oil, diamonds, gold, iron, copper)" That, is on our governments and the elites hands.

Say goodbye to the amazon, because private interests want the land and oil for cattle and profit.
All of these countries that are 'third world' and cannot afford to eat, CAN. They only can't because of a system that beats them and makes them lower than human, makes it seem like we are holier than them and they do not deserve to have a good home, medicine and food. We try our best here, some of us, to donate to things like this. But do the things we donate to ever make it to the people we are donating?

I recall a story about UNICEF trucks being intercepted by military in some african country, UNICEF trucks filled with food, water, clothes, books, school supplies for small african countries, taken and used for the military(if you can really call it that). So why are we not down there killing some dictators ass so we can feed some poor africans?
Oh wait, no resources.
The only thing they are good for us a vote at the UN, and a country they can call on because of the enormous debt that was placed on them with the promise of 'becoming more like america' with our modernized way of doing things.

Unheeded capitalism has led us to this place, We are slaves and we don't even know it. We work hard for what, next to nothing these days. The greed of the global elite has lead us here. Their control. Their propaganda, their poisoning of our food and water and air. Its not a coincidence my friends.

Economic hit men (EHMs) are highly paid professionals who cheat countries around the globe
out of trillions of dollars. They funnel money from the World Bank, the U.S. Agency for
International Development (USAID), and other foreign "aid" organizations into the coffers of
huge corporations and the pockets of a few wealthy fami-lies who control the planet's natural
resources. Their tools include fraudulent financial reports, rigged elections, payoffs, extortion,
sex, and murder. They play a game as old as empire, but one that has taken on new and
terrify-ing dimensions during this time of globalization. I should know; I was an EHM,
I wrote that in 1982, as the beginning of a book with the working title, Conscience of an
Economic Hit Man. The book was dedicated to the presidents of two countries, men who had
been my clients, whom I respected and thought of as kindred spirits — Jaime Roldos, president
of Ecuador, and Omar Torrijos, president of Panama. Both had just died in fiery crashes. Their
deaths were not accidental. They were assassinated because they opposed that fraternity of
corporate, government, and banking heads whose goal is global empire

Confessions of an economic hitman pdf