ALL will be "Saved"

My opinion on salvation is just my opinion based on a feeling I have about Jesus.

I think fundamentally everybody is screwed and the opera isn't over til the fat lady sings. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit or being a monk on Mt. Athos or being a mass-murdering dictator are trifles compared to the problem we all face when we die. Jesus can save us at that moment or not. Nobody knows until it happens.

On the other hand, my impression of Jesus tells me that He will save everybody one way or another. So I think salvation must be universal - not because of the nature of humans but because of the nature of Jesus.

reply to post by cloudyday


You said that Christ can save.any of us at any time which is 100% fact, He can. Remember the parable He spoke about the man who hired workers at the 11th hour? But what you said about all people will be saved one way or another is 100% false, in fact He said MANY people will be on the broad way that ends in Hell and only a few people choose the narrow way that leads to life. He also said many people on that day (day of Judment of the Dead) will be shocked that they were not saved. They spent their lives working as hard as they could to make themselves worthy by their own sweat and toils and Christ will tell them "I never knew you."

Its all about relationship/intimacy not working as hard as you can. It's about knowing Him personally. Relationship not religion.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by cloudyday

 

You said that Christ can save.any of us at any time which is 100% fact, He can. Remember the parable He spoke about the man who hired workers at the 11th hour? But what you said about all people will be saved one way or another is 100% false, in fact He said MANY people will be on the broad way that ends in Hell and only a few people choose the narrow way that leads to life. He also said many people on that day (day of Judment of the Dead) will be shocked that they were not saved. They spent their lives working as hard as they could to make themselves worthy by their own sweat and toils and Christ will tell them "I never knew you."

Its all about relationship/intimacy not working as hard as you can. It's about knowing Him personally. Relationship not religion.

edit on 4-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Again, this is just my opinion, but it almost makes me angry when people define salvation based on something other than the whim of Jesus. We are totally at His mercy when we die. If Jesus is at all selective about who He saves then I don't have much hope. I think He wants to save everybody. I think He can save everybody. So I hope He does.

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by cloudyday

 

You said that Christ can save.any of us at any time which is 100% fact, He can. Remember the parable He spoke about the man who hired workers at the 11th hour? But what you said about all people will be saved one way or another is 100% false, in fact He said MANY people will be on the broad way that ends in Hell and only a few people choose the narrow way that leads to life. He also said many people on that day (day of Judment of the Dead) will be shocked that they were not saved. They spent their lives working as hard as they could to make themselves worthy by their own sweat and toils and Christ will tell them "I never knew you."

Its all about relationship/intimacy not working as hard as you can. It's about knowing Him personally. Relationship not religion.

edit on 4-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Again, this is just my opinion, but it almost makes me angry when people define salvation based on something other than the whim of Jesus. We are totally at His mercy when we die. If Jesus is at all selective about who He saves then I don't have much hope. I think He wants to save everybody. I think He can save everybody. So I hope He does.

edit on 4-6-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)

If it's based on our merit none of us have a change. It's based on His merits, and therefore all who believe on Him are eligible. Nobody is perfect but thank God it's not merit-based, but faith-based.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by cloudyday

 

You said that Christ can save.any of us at any time which is 100% fact, He can. Remember the parable He spoke about the man who hired workers at the 11th hour? But what you said about all people will be saved one way or another is 100% false, in fact He said MANY people will be on the broad way that ends in Hell and only a few people choose the narrow way that leads to life. He also said many people on that day (day of Judment of the Dead) will be shocked that they were not saved. They spent their lives working as hard as they could to make themselves worthy by their own sweat and toils and Christ will tell them "I never knew you."

Its all about relationship/intimacy not working as hard as you can. It's about knowing Him personally. Relationship not religion.

edit on 4-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Again, this is just my opinion, but it almost makes me angry when people define salvation based on something other than the whim of Jesus. We are totally at His mercy when we die. If Jesus is at all selective about who He saves then I don't have much hope. I think He wants to save everybody. I think He can save everybody. So I hope He does.

edit on 4-6-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)

If it's based on our merit none of us have a change. It's based on His merits, and therefore all who believe on Him are eligible. Nobody is perfect but thank God it's not merit-based, but faith-based.

It is mercy-based.

Saying it is faith-based is just as wrong as saying it is works-based. If Jesus wants, it can be universal salvation or universal damnation. How much faith is enough faith? How much works is enough works?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So the murderer, the rapist, the pedophile... all are elegible for "saving" yet a good man/woman who does not believe in Jesus is condemed?

I guess its a good thing the title of this thread is "ALL will be saved" or i'd be laughing...

While it may be true that all of these people will also make it to the "afterlife"... as i stated in the original post they will not be happy once they face God.

As for the "fear based religions"... pick one... Any Group/sect that uses Hell for a means of conversion qualifies as a "fear based" religion.

JW's base their entire theology on revelations, and the belief that ONLY their group will be going to heaven... and not just when they die... they believe it will be soon.

You say "believers" have no reason to fear... but again, "they have no reason to fear... as long as they believe what we do"

divide and conquer right?

Didn't Jesus say a house divided can not stand?

Well humanity is divided... and these are some of the reasons why...

reply to post by Akragon

. . . in fact those Athiests also have a powerful spirit within them which is of God . . .

I think this is a mistake that comes from people with a faulty cosmology.
Standard religion does not have everyone automatically having the spirit of God by just being alive.
Life is a natural aspect of the physical universe.
God is a discrete entity within the universe.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Who said anything about religion?

We are all born the exact same way... spirit and flesh...

I believe the idea that this "holy spirit" christians believe in is there at birth... and then realized as one matures.

On the other hand i don't believe it just appears within a person one day after a ceremony, or upon joining some group or sect...

Everyone has the same spirit within... But, not everyone listens to that spirit within

The body can not live without the spirit... IF no spirit is within, no life is within either

reply to post by cloudyday


It's mercy on His part yes, salvation by grace through faith IS mercy. There are only two options.. either I accept a gift I do not deserve or I accept a wage I have earned. The second choice is the way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof..

is not good lets just say.

reply to post by Akragon


Laugh all you want to. Humans have a grading scale for sins, God doesnt. A lie is the same as murder. The thief is going to the same Hell as the pedophile. ALL is sin, there isnt some sin God winks at and some sin He judges. All of us fail the law, some worse than others, but no one keeps God's laws perfectly their entire life.

But the GOOD NEWS is that Christ made a way with His sacrifice. The good news is that He took our sin upon Himself and gifts us His righteousness. The Father putting His own coat on the prodigal son who returns. The moral man might not have the exact same sims as the liar and thief who repent, he has his own sins. Moses, David, and Saul were murderers too remember? And they repented. God is merciful to anyone who repents regardless of what they have done.

And you are wrong about the JWs. They teach only the original 144,000 get to go to heaven, the JWs who come later gilet to live in paradise on Earth for eternity.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Laugh all you want to. Humans have a grading scale for sins, God doesnt.

Yes i know... The christian God fails all of his students... Good thing i dumped his class eh

A lie is the same as murder. The thief is going to the same Hell as the pedophile.

I disagree... completely

ALL is sin, there isnt some sin God winks at and some sin He judges. All of us fail the law, some worse than others, but no one keeps God's laws perfectly their entire life.

The christian God does not forgive these things...

The one Jesus spoke of does... and he gave us the example to live by

The moral man might not have the exact same sims as the liar and thief who repent, he has his own sins. Moses, David, and Saul were murderers too remember?

yup... one of the reasons i don't trust paul... once a liar always a liar.

By your logic, a murderer can be forgiven if he repents,but the unrepentant liar has no chance... Thus Christian theology offers the golden ticket to sin... as long as you repent.

You don't think thats a little twisted?

God is merciful to anyone who repents regardless of what they have done.

And you know that is wrong according to your own book...

And you are wrong about the JWs. They teach only the original 144,000 get to go to heaven, the JWs who come later gilet to live in paradise on Earth for eternity.

Meh... i don't study their material... though they do amuse me when they come to my door... It seems to me all they talk about is revelation. Most can quote it easily, yet ask them about the gospels and they're stumped

reply to post by Akragon

IF no spirit is within, no life is within either

So?
Doesn't mean it is God's.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon

 

IF no spirit is within, no life is within either

So?
Doesn't mean it is God's.

If "God" created all...

What isn't God's?

reply to post by Akragon

If "God" created all...

What isn't God's?

There is a story in the Bible where someone created a person to live in his garden.
After Eve came onto the scene, then people created people in the same sort of way as that other person created Adam.

reply to post by Akragon


Twisted? No, I call that redemption. Christ said the person who has been forgiven of much is the person who loves much. God is in the business of turning His worst enemies into His friends. Christ died for all sinners, just not a select few. That's a testament to His awesome glory, some folks are just too rabidly proud to humble themselves and repent. That's not God's fault man. Redemption is offered to all who repent, God isn't a respecter of persons.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by cloudyday

 

It's mercy on His part yes, salvation by grace through faith IS mercy. There are only two options.. either I accept a gift I do not deserve or I accept a wage I have earned. The second choice is the way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof..

is not good lets just say.

IMO, anybody who thinks they are "saved" (past tense) and others are "not saved" is very wrong. If we say we are already "saved" because we were baptized or we believed something or we were filled with the Holy Spirit or we experienced theosis or whatever - then we blind ourselves to the only hope we have - the mercy of Jesus. Jesus can save anybody He wants and He can not save anybody He wants. And we don't know for sure how it will be until we die.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon

 

If "God" created all...

What isn't God's?

There is a story in the Bible where someone created a person to live in his garden.
After Eve came onto the scene, then people created people in the same sort of way as that other person created Adam.

Isn't that the same story as the one with the talking snake?

Sorry my friend, i don't believe in fairytales.

If God created ALL... Then the same is of God

reply to post by Akragon

Isn't that the same story as the one with the talking snake?

Sorry my friend, i don't believe in fairytales.

If God created ALL... Then the same is of God

Then what mythology are you basing your assumptions on regarding spirit, God, and creation?
Where are you getting "If God created ALL... " from if not Christianity? If you are engaging in an ideological argument within Christianity and reject all accepted norms from Christianity as being valid in this argument, then what do you allow?

reply to post by cloudyday


Why can we rest our declarations on the Word of God? Thats what Biblical faith is anyways, believing something because God has already declared it to be so. Or in other words, we are not saved by making promises to God, we are saved by trusting in the promises God has made to us.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon

 

Isn't that the same story as the one with the talking snake?

Sorry my friend, i don't believe in fairytales.

If God created ALL... Then the same is of God

Then what mythology are you basing your assumptions on regarding spirit, God, and creation?
Where are you getting "If God created ALL... " from if not Christianity? If you are engaging in an ideological argument within Christianity and reject all accepted norms from Christianity as being valid in this argument, then what do you allow?

edit on 5-6-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Amen! A person cannot digest all the good about Christ and reject all the stuff that isnt palatable to the flesh. That would be idolatry.