The Devil's Chord: The conspiracy to open the portal of consciousness and mystery of the octave

Originally posted by Beavers
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

I loved this post and found it fascinating.

Not being a big player in music theory, how do I replicate this on my guitar?

Assuming you're a beginner just do this:

Pick any note on your low E (1st) string. Strike it.

Move down to your A (2nd) string and hit the note one fret higher.

Now move down to your D (3rd) string and hit the note one fret higher than where you were on your A.

=

Tritone.

Imagine a "ladder" on your fretboard.... or "stairway" .... ;-)

reply to post by cointelprotroll


Thanks... that rings a bell now. If I remember it was like 1000 pages or something

reply to post by Erongaricuaro

I feel there is a "magic" in music in that it can capture and relate barely expressable emotions.

Agreed. Every lover of music has experienced this magic.

Those who have long dabbled in music but have no real knowledge of the theory have found some tricks that may be easiest classified as "magic" because the concepts are difficult to express verbally but can be felt at times.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. There is no single body of musical theory in the same way as there is a single body of, say, medical lore that one needs to absorb in order to qualify as a doctor. If one makes music for long enough, one evolves a theory of one's own, a language in which to describe what one is doing or trying to do. Most commonly, one picks up the terms and the theory from other musicians one plays with.

There is, of course, a standard terminology of music (mostly relating to harmony) and a standard musical notation which formally trained Western musicians are familiar with, but as Antonia says, every musician has a working knowledge of the same musical objects even if he uses different terms and notation to articulate them. Every style of music has its own language; the word 'turnaround', which I used earlier, has meaning for people who play the blues or blues-derived music like rock or jazz, but none in formal musical terms; the term 'subdominant' captures some of its meaning but not all of it. Another common blues and rock word, 'riff', does have a formal equivalent, but a somewhat rare and high-flown one: 'ostinato'. This is because riffs are commonplace in blues and rock, but ostinati are not very common in serious Western music. Such music is melodically and harmonically complex but rhythmically very primitive; and more rhythmically sophisticated styles of music have a language of rhythm, sometimes formal as in Indian classical music, more often casual. And don't forget that the names of certain dances, especially Latin ones, are actually the names of the particular rhythms associated with those dances.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that magic is never a mystery to magicians.

Perlman's violin have brought me the brink of fleeting otherworld insights. Galacticgirl's healing experience while attending a Perlman performance I acknowledge and find highly believeable as I utilize similar visualizations to ease internal distresses and music helps make one that much more susceptible to those benefits.

I do not entirely disagree, but I find it beyond my capabilities to believe that a violin solo can cure somebody of hepatitis.

I suppose music "speaks" to us in that when masterfully done it brings up unresolved emotional responses and "completes the statement" to bring it to our satisfaction or perhaps leaves us with an internal mystery that we can resolve on our own.

Music does not have to be masterfully executed to achieve its effects. All that is required is that the performer should have sufficient skill to play the selected piece without mistakes or lapses of taste that would break the spell. I am no virtuoso, but I have had the pleasure of moving people with the music I make on more occasions than I can possibly count.

Any theory worth its salt should be expressable in common terms but I suppose in dealing with true harmonics there is a "quantum factor" in that there is a bit of spare change left over that is difficult to account for.

I don't believe that nature is fundamentally simple, or that it can always be understood in commonplace terms, so I beg to differ. However, I do not think the complexities of the OP are intrinsic to the material.

In the end, this thread is just another excursion into numerology, salted with the usual Pythagorean hyperbole. The power of music is mysterious indeed, but it is not at all mystical, and its mysteries are not nearly so shallow that they will be revealed through hopeful exercises in secondary-school arithmetic.

Some intelligent, nonmystical discussion of tritones can be found here. It is very easy to read and may cast some light on the OP for non-musical readers.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by ogbert

 

If you wanna check out some really nice Indian music, Chinmeya Dunster's "Feng Shui" , is a great album, with a nice spiritual/meditational aura. Chinmeya plays a classical Indian Sarod, which is a 20-25 string fretless instrument, in which the strings are sympathetic.(non-plucked strings resonate along with the plucked ones) The music has a upbeat western rhythm, but you really hear what you are missing when he strums that thing.

Tune your guitar to a chord, or to a modal polychord like DADGAD or CGDGDC, and you can enjoy the same feeling of perfect harmonic richness.

edit on 9/2/12 by Astyanax because: of a model.

Otherwise referred to as "open tunings"

I agree you get a sense of "being released" tuning an instrument this way... highly recommended!



With regards to some previous comments about the flat fifth being banned due to some inability to resolve it within traditional music... I suppose that's true. It's not difficult though, if you're composing something from scratch.
It simply adds dissonance or an air of tension to what otherwise would be ... not dissonant or tense

reply to post by HIWATT
i am a luthier (maker of fretted instruments) and i play guitar but i am in no way musically trained but that is one evil sounding chord (and probably why i've never used it in anything i've written). it makes the guitar vibrate in a very different way concentrated right behind the bridge violently compared to E maj which vibrates equally across the top/soundboard. very interesting post.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


If you want to pretty much find the answer to what you're talking about, it's all in the book Quadrivium. Trust me lol.

Or not, just depends on if you want to know.

I play an 11 string, 5 of the strings have an octave higher, except my G-string, of all things.

Speaking of which, I just played a flat fifth chord on it and my cat started to meow and man, the sound it makes in the body of the guitar is crazy. Sounds like a warble monster.

reply to post by josephamccoy

Actually, HIWATT's example was of two stacked tritones.

A tritone is not a triad but a two-note interval. It can sound quite harmonious in the right context; for example, I often play only the tritone intervals of dominant chords in a blues context. Didn't Robert Johnson do a bit of that, too? Ha! Another association of tritones with the Devil!

Interesting thread OP! It actually relates to my study of the Earth's Magnetic Field and the vibration/energy we are being influenced by within the Universe itself!

As far as music being a healer and our thoughts manifesting such....I totally believe. Proof is out here!

Very interesting times we are living in that is for sure! I look forward to reading more from you.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by josephamccoy

 

Actually, HIWATT's example was of two stacked tritones.

A tritone is not a triad but a two-note interval. It can sound quite harmonious in the right context; for example, I often play only the tritone intervals of dominant chords in a blues context. Didn't Robert Johnson do a bit of that, too? Ha! Another association of tritones with the Devil!

Correct of course. My apologies.

It can get kind of confusing for the layman though.... TRI-tone is not a TRI-ad but a TWO note interval

I was just framing the concept in a manner I'm used to.

We all get the idea by now I'm sure. It's understandable how this may have been seen as "troublesome" by certain elements in the past. It really can incite a form of "disturbance" in a piece.. as alluded by Josephamccoy's description of his bridge "resonating violently" as he struck those notes.

That is Satan attempting to escape through your F-hole! LOL

Kidding of course...

reply to post by Astyanax


Right.

This thread surely presents a "crossroads" of enlightenment...

dun-dun-duuunnnnnnn

It's been interesting reading thanks OP. I'm off to buy a fresh set of nickel for my trusty old TAMA

really awesome thread! from the op to the posters. terrific info.
s&f.

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
After that my brain was permanently magnetized with bliss and I for a couple weeks I had amazing healing abilities and telekinesis, telepathy, etc. That training was ten years ago and I even saw dead spirits that visit Chunyi Lin when he is doing his qi-emitting full lotus lectures during the retreat.

Had me until this part.

Are you saying you were able to read minds and move objects with only your thoughts? While i loved the bulk of your article, this kind of thing will scare away many critical thinkers. I simply do not believe you were able to do this, if you had, some yogi would have proved this already and we wouldnt have bogus videos that have been debunked time and time again of people demonstrating telekinesis.

This is one of the most interesting posts I have ever read...thank you!!

I have some understanding of the metaphysical aspects of this post but not the musical. What does this mean for us? As someone who meditates and uses energy for healing aspects, how can I use this information in my training/practice? Possibly use these tones to increase my vibratory tone? Please explain if you can...

Also, are these sounds/vibrations related to sacred geometric shapes and if so, which ones? This has been a new area of study for me, sound/vibration and how it relates to shapes. Haven't found too much information in this area so any helpful tidbits are much appreciated!

Thank again for this, Ill be checking all these links and downloads tonight!

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
After that my brain was permanently magnetized with bliss and I for a couple weeks I had amazing healing abilities and telekinesis, telepathy, etc. That training was ten years ago and I even saw dead spirits that visit Chunyi Lin when he is doing his qi-emitting full lotus lectures during the retreat.

Had me until this part.

Are you saying you were able to read minds and move objects with only your thoughts? While i loved the bulk of your article, this kind of thing will scare away many critical thinkers. I simply do not believe you were able to do this, if you had, some yogi would have proved this already and we wouldnt have bogus videos that have been debunked time and time again of people demonstrating telekinesis.

Two questions arrive for you to answer if you like.

Why do you think it would scare a "critical thinker"??

Why do you not believe someone is able to do this?

Ya know OP....it makes me wonder if the hums people are hearing all over the world are due to the Earth trying to heal herself or possibly an external energy trying to heal the Earth... I know it is OUT THERE but just a thought.

Originally posted by MamaJ
Two questions arrive for you to answer if you like.

Why do you think it would scare a "critical thinker"??

Not sure. Perhaps i meant "natural skeptic", much like myself. Im sure a very small percentage of people on earth believe in real telekinesis.

Originally posted by MamaJ
Why do you not believe someone is able to do this?

Mostly because there have been thousands if not tens of thousands of people who claim they can do this, yet will not subject themselves to scientific scrutiny. The few who do are quickly disproven as hoaxsters. Lets spin this the other way and ask you, who has (most likely) never been presented with proof of working telekinesis, why you DO believe he can do it?

He said he could do this for roughly a week. I would imagine anyone who gained the ability to move objects with his or her mind would not have been overjoyed by it and certainly would have taken a movie clip or two of the phenomenon to show others or at least remember it themselves. I can assure you, if i discovered it, i would dedicated every free moment of my life meditating, listening to these sounds or whatever to retain that state.

Maybe the OP can provide some proof to back of his claims of healing abilities, telepathy or telekinesis? I would suggest the later, as it would be the easiest to prove with video.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong
Excellent post. Can't wait till tonight to have the time to sit down and digest all of this.

this is a fascinating thread im on here to learn.What makes Albinonis 'Adagio' solemn and spiritual for example what key in music makes it what it is because i know bugger all about music but im interested .

reply to post by Erongaricuaro

...To me I feel there is a "magic" in music in that it can capture and relate barely expressable emotions. Those who have long dabbled in music but have no real knowledge of the theory have found some tricks that may be easiest classified as "magic" because the concepts are difficult to express verbally but can be felt at times.

I want to be very careful about how I say all this - because I don't want it to be misinterpreted as my trying to suck the magic out of music - I absolutely don't want to do anything like that

I'm replying to you because you touch on something I've thought about many, many times - music having the ability to relate barely expressible emotion...

The Bach cello concertos (violin too for that matter) move me to tears sometimes - even after having listened to them over and over again. To me they're just astonishingly beautiful. That's just one example - music absolutely is magic

I once was listening to some Middle Eastern music with a Muslim friend - and I commented on how unbelievably sad it was. He was surprised I could hear that - since it's very different from the music I grew up with here in the States. But - I think music is capable of doing something language can't - it's something that can be understood at a level you just can't get to with words. We all understand it - even if we can't explain what we're understanding

And so, I've always wondered if animals have music - or it's equivalent

here is what I was aiming for - for me it makes it almost more magical

Teie has been developing a theory to explain why music plays on human emotions. His theory is that music relates to the most primitive sounds we make and respond to, like laughter, heartbeats, or a mother's cooing.

www.npr.org...

They know now that an unborn child can hear so much - imagine all the sounds and rhythms we're exposed to before we're born - not to mention what we're wired to hear and also understand on some level

it seems to me that we could call music language

I think it should be noted that some of the crappiest stinkpiles of music ever created were done to reflect "The perfect ratios" and other mathematically theories the OP discusses. Trust me, I've had to listen to a lot of that in my time. It's all pretty crappy and rather dull. Yes there is a lot of music that does conform to these mathematical ratios but it wasn't made to do so.