Are people ignoring the facts about Homosexuality?

reply to post by pitchdragon


I see what you mean but it's not all heterosexuals that do that... stupid individuals are the ones who categorize. I'm a heterosexual and don't do that, don't put me in that category.

People are homosexual because a 60' commonality between the erect penis and vagina do not necessarily a satisfying relationship make.

Heterosexual intercourse is not for recreation as much as for procreation. See any number of porn sites for evidence of this fact.

Given that homosexuality has been observed in nature in a large number of species, and these creatures have no capacity for human like choice, then how can it be said that homosexuality is not natural. Equally, given that it is observed in species not capable of such choice, how can it be considered nothing but a choice in human beings?

en.wikipedia.org...

An hour long podcast that is very much worth listening to is this, covers how gender was treated as more of a spectrum in ancient times, especially in cultures like the incas.

imaginaryfriendsshow.com...

I think it is certainly worth an hour of the time of someone who sees homosexuality as unnatural or a disease.

I am a 100% het male. Never had a homosexual experience, and have no need to try one.

I think Dr. Boys is somewhat full of himself and has a clear agenda, probably religously based.

Regarding the "born that way" question, my opinion is that it is not relevant.

Originally posted by rainbowbear
If there are negetive effects of being gay, are there also positive ones?

Two come to mind right away:
1) Gay people tend to not contribute to the extreme over population of humans on the planet as much as straight people.

2) Cultures that mix gay and het populations are more diverse by definition. More diverse cultures, if they can pick their minds up from bigotry, tend to be healthier than more monolithic cultures.

Who is most effected by homosexuality---homos, hetros, culture, children? Does it truly NOT hurt anyone?

Gay people are the ones most affected by homosexuality. It's nobody else's business. It truly does NOT hurt anyone.
(Note: Of course there are predators out there who DO hurt people and who happen to be gay. And just like with straight people, there is no causality between being gay (or straight) and being a predator.)

Why would people remain nuetral to homosexuality, if it does have health and social risks...

Being straight has health and social risks. Refer the above comment about the overpopulation of the human species. There is no connection between having "health and social risks" and being gay. Might as well ask why people would remain neutral to tallness or being left-handed.

Is being gay, really about sexual freedom?

No. Being gay is about people being the way they are. Whether by choice or birth.

Is it possible to explore the facts, even if they come from a bigoted perspective?

Sure. It is possibly more difficult, because the bigoted starting point may tend to induce unconcious assumptions, but with diligence those may be overcome, and the actual facts arrived at.

However, in complex questions such as this, when we do not have full knowledge, "facts" as opposed to bigotted opinion are sometimes difficult to separate (the whole "choice vs birth" thing).

My personal feeling about gayness, is I have NO problem with it, until they try to take over the world. this goes for all "groups", people, organizations, agendas.

I find this statement somewhat interesting... do you use that same language with all other groups? Do you say "My personal feeling about Catholics, is I have NO problem with it, until they try to take over the world... "?

Or do you say that about carpenters? Or sidewalk artists? Or opera singers? Or Marines? Or Beef ranchers? Or firemen?

I understand and agree with your resistance to having the world dominated by any one group; I just wonder if you phrase it that way with other groups?

Since not many of you will read the book here is a video of him covering the subject.

I've read all of this thread and it is going nowhere. I hear evidence from people who are actually homosexual who can tell first hand that they always felt this way. That is in my opinion evidence enough as nobody else could possibly argue with first hand knowledge.

Before I give my 5 pence worth I have to explain that I did study Neuroscience. So my opinion is actually based on scientific ground.
I will not go into biological differences [even they do exist], because they are being countered by words from a book that has been re-written so often that its original meaning has simply gone out of the window and stating the obvious will just be ignored..

What I would like to point out is the FACT that homosexuality an heterosexuality are not simply two sides, with no middle ground. Rather they are lying on a graph and everyone is somewhere on this graph. So it is entirely possible to be slightly gay but mainly interested in the opposite sex. You can be bi-sexual but still prefer one to the other, you could be entirely gay or straight and all in between.

Nature works on practicality. If homosexuality would in any way be a danger to a species, it would simply get bred out by evolution/ survival of the fittest. But homosexuality is there, always has been and always will be. Nature couldn't care less if you are gay. You are no danger to anything!
I personally favour this observable fact to a man made [and frankly very skewed] point of view based on nothing more than opinions.

I was shocked that the OP can spout IMO very insulting and hurtful quotes at other human beings and nobody is batting an eyelid. If we were to speak about any other minorities like this there would be sirens and bannings and penalties galore.
Why is it OK to spread open hatred against others, especially by those that call themselves religious.
I am not religious but at least what I expect from the religious crowd is some sort of understanding of their own belief. In x-tianity this would be: "Love thy neighbour" or "do unto others..."

However what I see is bigoted racists [I know homosexuality isn't a race but the principle of picking a minority and wishing them the worst is just as bad].

I personally couldn't care less what dangles between people's legs and what they do with it or with whom, as long as they are decent people. If you are so obsessed with it that it makes you hate then I have to say that there is something very wrong with you.

reply to post by Cocasinpry



saying this i avoid to categorize people , there is no hetero or homo and will never judge you, you are what you are for my case i don't look the gender or ethnicity this is just the packaging, we are 7 billion people and eatch one is unique, this is huge, we are not perfect but this is what make us perfect, eatch one has his own imperfection...this is beautiful when we think about it, we'v cross the edge and learn to survive all together but for some obscure reason we have not yet succeeded to initialize a real union, it is always our differences that we highlight ...if i look at you i will not look your sexuality or where do you come from but , it is rather how two people who are total opposites can build something that they can evolved in their thinking ... without judgment, even if our ideas do not sound adequate, we can communicate and learn from each other.
last thing i could not feel superior to another, as i say we are all unique, therefore everyone has a place on this planet.

i allways learned that who you are ect is depanding on your dna and within it you genes..

if you are born and your biochemic reaction in you brain is not the way it supose to be it is due too your genes ..
so when people are born with down syndrom , adhd or what ever illness due to mutation in the genes or wrong mixture of dads and moms genes will be said to have a genetic disease ..

so why not homo sexuality.. in real freedom people should be free to choose and if you are born homosexual why not create and use medication like with hiv and cancer if someone doesn't want to be homosexual ..

people should be free in that .. if they choose to take medication to repress the urges they have due to a genetic mutation they should be free to do so.

and if they don't want to they are free to stay the way they are..

but in todays world we are not free to make these choices because we may not develope cures or ways to tackle it even if homosexuals want to be cured from something which should not be ..

next to that i believe that it might be introduced artificially as population control so there are not people being born in these relations and there will not be a rise in human population.

I don't ever post or discuss my real viewpoints on homosexuality because no one is capable of having a civil or unemotional discussion about it.

If you try to say that homosexuality is anything other then 100% normal then your bigoted and if you Have the opposite opinion then your a degenerate.

Any other percieved abberance of human behaviour can be discussed by science without anyone fluttering an eyelid but as soon as you want to talk about the phenomena of homosexuality everyone turns into a nutcase.

So why even bother trying, even an enlightened and open minded group of people like those here at ATS are incapable of having a scientific discussion about the homosexual phenomena.

Every time one speaks now days, one is accused of bigotry, racism, sexism or a host of other Phobias. And that is likely to be of the practitioners of fundamentalisms in a moral based society ie. JudeoChristian beliefs. And to a lesser but no less adamant degree, all the (other, and less mainstream) religions and moral societies. This is the United States and like it or not, this was a Christian based society at it's founding. Immigration has brought all the (other) outside influences, as the United States was founded by a Christian inspired group of our forefathers.. Deviation from natural human behavior is considered abhorrent. The Majority holds the political power, and this manifests in the moral structure and composition of that society, ....our society. Those who act outside the social or political norms or values are ostracized. Homosexuality practiced by either sex fits that definition of deviant behavior and is not regarded as natural or acceptable. As for having to defend the moral majorities beliefs, it is not necessary by virtue of their beliefs of acceptable behavior. Arguments of a biological difference are widely used in defense of homosexual behavior, yet has not been proven to be so. Nature would provide that homosexuality would ultimately self destruct. We all know the reason for that....reproduction, thus by nature they would not replicate, the final outcome with non-replication, a failure to sustain their populations. To heterosexuals, homosexual behavior is repulsive. It is a small percentage that choose this lifestyle. Their numbers have increased as the population as a whole has increased, however it has become considered no less deviant, and in some areas, strongholds have appeared where the populations of homosexuals have essentially enclaved. San Francisco comes to mind as well as North Hollywood, where liberal attitudes have allowed it. male homosexuality has its inherent risks of hepatitis and AIDS. And to a lesser degree, the lesbian population. These are the primary diseases, though a plethora of others follow this lifestyle. To choose to abhor or be repulsed by this behavior is well within the rights of a moral society, or a religious society as it runs contrary to their values.

I personally find homosexuals offensive in their behavior, and I will avoid any contact with them. Nor will I condone any activity in which they as a group are involved. And I agree with measures that oppose them. For which I feel no apology necessary or required. Their demise would not be unwelcome in my estimation.

Sigh. So many things wrong with our world and there are 21 pages arguing about a non-issue. If someone is gay, so what? There's not a single gay person on Earth that have affected me negatively in any way that matters. As a matter of fact, the gay men and women that I've had the absolute privilege of knowing have all had positive effects on my life.

Why does it matter to any of you if they were born that way or chose to be that way? If they weren't then that's their decision to live their lives how they see fit. Who are any of you judge how they live their lives? Get over yourselves, grow up, and try to fix your own lives without screwing up other peoples' lives.

/TOA

Haters gonna Hate.. its as simple as that.. no longer is it stylish to be racist. .to degrade one race and compare it to another, because you come away from it looking like a total fool in most of socities eyes, thankfully such small minorities that form such.....cults.. somewhat have become hated by society and seen for what they are..

but ahhh. .the "gay" thing.. its not hard to find a hater to link up with and pride one another in a false sence of superiority about how great you are and how inferior others are that you so much hate.. you link to blogs and posts of likeminded people that have a track history of such outrages, erronously quote bible passages of so called religion (a problem in itself on another topic of similar ideals) and the last great word thats always spoken is generally about lack of reproduction and end of all society and race..

not suprisingly its mostly focused on men.. and gay men get the most insults, get used in comparisons time and time again yet the straight.. or so called straight usually man at the center of all this fountain of hate chooses to ignore the feminine side of homosexuality.. quite simply displaying a lob-sided view of the subject.. showing terrible lack of morals and no education on the subject other than their own hatred and bigotry..

is the subject REALLY about homosexuality.. or is it more akin to simply having the need to feel superior to another. to insult something and a great many people...because you want too.. not because its right.. not because it has any basis in reality or facts to backup your accusations

but simply...wanting to hate something.. that most primal of urges thats lead to meaningless wars, conflicts.. heartache..

Haters gonna hate... theres so much I could contribute to this thread..but i'd be wasting my time.. given the original context and intent of this very thread and opening post.. theres "other" places on the internet to vent such things.. and other forums too.. a few come to mind.. perhaps you should try to rally peoples there rather than polute ATS with such sad hostility towards humanity.. this is not a personal attack.. its an observation..

Originally posted by Plotus

I personally find homosexuals offensive in their behavior, and I will avoid any contact with them. Nor will I condone any activity in which they as a group are involved. And I agree with measures that oppose them. For which I feel no apology necessary or required. Their demise would not be unwelcome in my estimation.

I personally find religious extremists and other hate groups offensive in their behavior. They represent the minority in this country, and therefore don't reflect "normal values". I will not condone any activity in which religious extremists or other hate groups are involved. And I agree with measures that oppose religious extremists and other hate groups, for which I feel no apology is necessary or required. The demise of religious extremists and other hate groups would not be unwelcome in my estimation.

It goes both ways, doesn't it?

I'll be honest, I didn't read every page of the posts here because some of the commentary really boils down to bashing one side or another, and honestly - I don't like to read that knid of thing. However, this is a touchy subject for several, and I thought I would throw my two cents in. First, let's review the facts related to this, and not necessarily ones covered by the OP.

• Fact: Most, if not all, religions around the world have a Golden Rule.
  
• Fact: Since people are trying to impose their religious beliefs onto others, they obviously want to have others impose their religious beliefs onto them.
  
• Fact: People claiming their religion is right and thus, need to educate others on how right it is, are hypocrits as they are violating the Golden Rule.
  

Why does anything about someone's private lives affect me what so ever? Why do people make it such a big deal out of threads like this? As long as people are happy living their lives, I am happy for them - I don't even have to know them for that. It doesn't matter if they were born that way, or chose that way, or environmental pressures made them that way - because it is their life, not yours. I only hope they are happy with who they are, because that is really what life should be about.

reply to post by rainbowbear


Gay's will behave and try for the equality crap. But then when it comes around ,they'll be like the women, the black skinned, etc and pull a stereotype card to get their way. "They fired me because of my sexuality!" I defeinetly see that coming in th future.

reply to post by rainbowbear


This is such a baseless arguement, it makes no difference if someone is born gay or makes a concious choice...if they are gay they are gay. If this effects your life as a straight individual, then your the one with the serious problem.

If someone wants to make the arguement that gays make a concious decision to be gay, then it must go the other way as well.

To those of you that feel this is the case, then when did you decide in your life that you were going to be straight?

At what age did you men look at boys an say "naw, that's not for me. I like the women!"

See how bassakwards that comment is when you look at it from the other perspective.

Love is blind! If you love someone nothing else matters...not sex, age(legal age of course), ethnicity, or personal traits.

I am a straight man, happily married with a family, and I have some friends that are gay...it does not effect my life at all.

One cannot argue that gays make a choice of sexual preference and not argue the same for straight.

So to those of you who are straight...were you born that way?

If so, then so must be those that are gay...

Originally posted by locololo
reply to post by rainbowbear

 

Gay's will behave and try for the equality crap. But then when it comes around ,they'll be like the women, the black skinned, etc and pull a stereotype card to get their way. "They fired me because of my sexuality!" I defeinetly see that coming in th future.

Well, excuse this Woman for having the right to vote. Your post is a prime example, why the court system has been utilized for decades, to achieve some semblance of equality.

Guess you would prefer me barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen cooking, where I belong....

Sexual love is an expression of the totality of love, that is, once you strip anything or anybody of its conceptualized identity, you'll find love. Whether that love is between a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, or anything between, doesn't matter. Beyond the "lower state of self", which I've concluded is an illusion, men and women are no different. Physically, yes. Divinely, no.

Follow your bliss, I always say. What makes you happy, as long as you are not harming, interfering, or corrupting another person in the process, it's really no business of anybody else who you fall in love or spend your time with.

The question was raised by the thread if homosexuality is a born condition. It may be. It may not be. I suppose it depends on a person's situation. A person may be born gay, or the conditions they are born and raised in ultimately cause a shift in their sexuality. Regardless, it doesn't matter how you got here. Stay true to yourself, whether you are straight or gay, and find your own happiness.

I was just reading an article showing that children scoring below average on IQ tests were much more likely to have conservative and bigoted views as adults. Maybe their lack of intelligence is a personal choice and not biological?

As homosexuality has survived so long against evolutionary pressure in many different creatures there is likely a good reason for its existence.

reply to post by rainbowbear


I was hoping to see some of these facts??

And how do these people know wether or not some people are "born gay"?

Andalso, when does consensus mean fact? Because im pretty sure it does not necessarily mean that.

I really wish as a society we can get over the gay issue. Its one of the best smokescreens used by the right to distract us from the REAL issues that face our planet. I could give a rats ace what people do as long as they arent hurting anyone or polluting.

Although i would agree with the poster above, id prefer to not see gay PDA. In the same way i wouldnt make out with my girlfriend in public. If you want to do it, do it in the gaybar