15 year old teen with Autism shot and killed by police.

reply to post by paxnatus

No, the police are to blame no one else!! They were ill equipped to handle the situatuon! There should be a full investigation and they should be brought up on charges.

Please do not let me disagreeing with you overshadow my empathy towards your situation.

The parents are to blame. Maybe not after the first time the police were called to help them get their child under control, no matter what the mental handicap, but after the 10th time the police had to respond to the house because the child was out of control, measures needed to be taken. The parents failed to take those measures.

These measures needed to be taken by the parents, way way way before it got to this point. The parents should have consulted a doctor, a social worker or a mental health worker way before the 10th time the police needed to be called. The child should have been placed or steps should have been taken to move the child into an environment where the explosive behavior can be controlled, the child can be subdued and the child does not have access to anything that can be used as a weapon.

Police are given basic training on how to deal with mentally handicapped or disturbed people. That is it. They are not doctors, psychologists or social workers. When a mentally handicapped individual threatens their life, the situation has to be handled accordingly.

There was / is a full investigation being conducted. It is a very tragic event but based on the information we all have at this point, there are no charges that could be placed against the police officers.

heartbreak­ing, this child's life was violently ended by the police!
to his mom, my heart breaks for her, as we cannot even attempt to understand her pain on losing her child,
feel this murder could have been prevented, think it is lack of police training towards understand­ing autistic children/a­dults.
This is why every parent reading this who has an autistic child needs to know that they need to be advocates for their child and not involve authoritie­s, the officers that arrive at your home are not the best of the best, they are low paid and very much into using excessive force,
especially if you are a darker shade than lily white.
it doesn't take much to be a cop, yes, some are great and true heroes, yet some are morons with a gun.
our prayers and love go out to you, mom of Stephon Watts,

hope that all parents of autistic children will see this tragedy of deadly police force against an autistic child and get involved in changing the police response before another of our children is senselessl­y murdered.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

These are the exact situations that things like tazers and pepper spray were invented for.

No. No they were not. Tazers miss and dont have a completely incapacitating effect 100% of the time. Pepper spray is only effective if a person has a normal pain tolerance. Pepper spray could have no effect on mentally handicapped / disturbed individuals or individuals on certain drugs like PCP.

If these measures were used on an individual charging you with a knife and were ineffective, you are now WAY behind in the game which could result in your death. That is why if a police officer is confronted with deadly force, deadly force is the proper response.

Your predisposition against ALL police officers is blinding you so much you cant even use common sense.

reply to post by areyouserious2010


Thank you, I sincerrely mean that. A couple of questions, why could they have not aimed for a shoulder, knee, the wall? Why did they not call. Forr an ambulance before confronting this child. They had. To have known he was in crisis! He needed medical assistance the police werre suppose to help, to protect, this makes me hesitate in calling them for assistance again.

I'm sorry I cannot continue this conversation Im far too emotional right now, This hurts it really does.

Thanks,
Pax

reply to post by maria776

feel this murder could have been prevented, think it is lack of police training towards understand­ing autistic children/a­dults.

Even a person who is an expert in autism and is very skilled at dealing with autistic people is not prepared for an autistic person charging at them with a knife and meaning to use it.

...especially if you are a darker shade than lily white.

The fact that you even brought race into this argument, where it obviously has no bearing on the situation at hand, is proof that you lack the basis from which you can formulate a rational arguement on the subject. Shame on you.

hope that all parents of autistic children will see this tragedy of deadly police force against an autistic child and get involved in changing the police response before another of our children is senselessl­y murdered.

Hope that all parents of autistic children will recognize that if they have to call the police 10 times to get their autistic child under control, they need to start taking greater steps to get their child the help they desperately need before something like this happens.

Another very sad story at ATS. They should've done that to real criminals (government/CIA drug traffickers and corrupted bankers).

At least we know the teen is now in a better place in heaven. Let our prayers reach him. God bless his soul.

reply to post by areyouserious2010


It was a kid, and two cops. You can always say technically and by protocol and blah blah, but that's not how police should operate. The human element is important, the last thing we want is sociopaths or machines in authoritative positions.

Missing with a taser isn't a great argument either. Two cops both using them aren't going to miss and so what? What if they had missed with their guns? The consequence to them would have been the same, the consequence to the victim not so much. They could of and should have used a taser.

Cops didn't always shoot first, and if it really was a butter knife the would have recognized, one of them could have taken him down. If it had been a lone cop I might be more forgiving, but not with two.

I'm not going to make an argument out of, because I can see that you are going to take the "argue because there is an argument to be made stance" and sure that shows you are intelligent enough to recognize situations in which arguments can be made logically, but that doesn't always mean they should be made, held on to, or are correct. In this case the cops could have and should have taken a different route.

reply to post by paxnatus

why could they have not aimed for a shoulder, knee, the wall?

Because in a stress reaction, accuracy is reduced. Aiming for a shoulder or knee could result in a miss possibly resulting in shooting a bystander. A miss could result in a person with a knife closing the distance and stabbing you or slashing your throat.

Aiming for a wall leaves the possibility that the round could go through the wall and into a person behind it.

Why did they not call. Forr an ambulance before confronting this child.

Because most medical personnel will not even drive up to the house if there is the potential for violence. Mostly because they are not trained or equipped to deal with violent people. They will wait until the police arrive and secure the scene before they enter.

. They had. To have known he was in crisis!

That depends on what was communicated by the parents when they called the police. They could have known he was autistic or, due to lack of communication by the parents, they could have just thought it was a son fighting with his father. Either way, they have to enter the scene and assess the situation. Based on the article, as soon as they entered the basement, the child charged at them with a knife. There was no time for futher assessment.

He needed medical assistance the police werre suppose to help, to protect, this makes me hesitate in calling them for assistance again.

Indeed he did. But the police have to render the person safe before any medical or other assistance can be given. Involving the police is the parent's own decision. And it should be made after much consideration. But in a violent situation, especially one with a weapon, it can deteriorate very quickly. Again, a parent being killed by their child who is mentally handicapped is doing the child absolutely zero good.

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by paxnatus

 

These measures needed to be taken by the parents, way way way before it got to this point. The parents should have consulted a doctor, a social worker or a mental health worker way before the 10th time the police needed to be called. The child should have been placed or steps should have been taken to move the child into an environment where the explosive behavior can be controlled, the child can be subdued and the child does not have access to anything that can be used as a weapon.

He had autism, the state was not going to come into their home and take their child and their responsibility. He wasn't a criminal and his violent behavior was obviously a result of his mental illness. He shouldn't be deprived of love and and an attempt at a normal life because somebody got fed up with him. I am quite sure that everytime the police respond to situations like this involving a minor, an inquiry by social services is mandatory. I don't know what else they could have told the parents besides: make sure he takes his meds, take him to a doctor (who'd end up perscribing more meds), or take some classes. I also wonder how and if they were medically insured. Maybe they were financially strained.

You have the disability plus hormones, plus puberty, plus peer pressure, plus an inability to understand and regulate emotion, equals a time bomb.

by paxnatus

A time bomb indeed.!

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

It was a kid, and two cops.

It was a person with a knife and two people. Were not talking about a seven or eight year old, he was 15. And were not talking about two machines were talking about two people, which people sometimes forget.

You can always say technically and by protocol and blah blah, but that's not how police should operate.

Leave the technicalities and protocol out of it. I would expect anyone who is confronted with another person charging at them with a knife and getting cut with it to use deadly force in self defense. Police or not.

Two cops both using them aren't going to miss and so what?

There is still the possibility for a miss. And if it is ineffective, then what? Then you have to transition to a handgun and attempt to draw and fire. There is no time. Again, read about the 21 foot rule in one of my last posts.

What if they had missed with their guns? The consequence to them would have been the same, the consequence to the victim not so much.

Tazers only have one fire before you have to change out the cartridge and attempt to fire again which takes way too long if someone is charging at you with a knife trying to kill you. Handguns have 10-12 chances to strike the target before reloading. So if you miss with a handgun you have a better chance then if you miss with a tazer. Especially if your life is on the line. Which you seem to ignore just because they are police. You speak of consequences but fail to recognize that the police officers could have been killed as well.

They could of and should have used a taser.

They COULD have used a tazer but what they SHOULD have done is not up to you, a monday morning quarter back who is sitting comfortably in front of a computer with 20/20 hind sight and all day to think about what COULD have happened.

Cops didn't always shoot first...

Do you realize that until fairly recently, because better minds prevailed, police were allowed to shoot a fleeing suspect just because they had probable cause to believe they committed a felony? I bet you didnt. The supreme court ruled in Tennesse V. Garner that the police may not use deadly force unless they can articulate that the fleeing person poses a great risk to public safety. So dont try to pull this stuff with me. You have no idea what you are talking about.

reply to post by CaptainNemo

He had autism, the state was not going to come into their home and take their child and their responsibility.

If it required the police to come to the house 10 times because the child as violent, obviously whatever steps are being taken are not working. If medication and counseling are not working then the child could be committed to a facility or placed in a group home where proper supervision and steps can be taken.

He wasn't a criminal and his violent behavior was obviously a result of his mental illness.

That is true. He was not criminally responsible because of his mental illness. I made no argument to the contrary.

He shouldn't be deprived of love and and an attempt at a normal life because somebody got fed up with him.

Further steps needed to be taken, not because they got fed up with him, but because he required more supervision and more treatment. Seeking better treatement is not depriving someone of love or a normal life, it is showing your love by seeking a way to live a normal life.

I am quite sure that everytime the police respond to situations like this involving a minor, an inquiry by social services is mandatory.

That may depend on the state. I know for a fact that in some states, this is not the case.

I don't know what else they could have told the parents besides: make sure he takes his meds, take him to a doctor (who'd end up perscribing more meds), or take some classes.

Again, if they are a danger to themself or others they can be placed in a mental facility. If they require more supervision as part of their treatment, they can be placed in a group home.

I also wonder how and if they were medically insured. Maybe they were financially strained.

None of this is any fault of the police. I am sure there is some sort of program that assists lower income families in situations like this.

reply to post by areyouserious2010


Not just two people.. two cops. Trained for situations exactly like this. Knowing who was involved. Not a cartel member, terrorist, or serial killer, but an autistic kid.

I know all about the 21 foot rule. People tried to use the same poor argument when the cop murdered the wood carver. I do know what I am talking about, what I know and what you think I know are two completely different things.

reply to post by CaptainNemo


so police can catch real criminals with minor problems yet when it comes to an autistic minor weilding a butter knife the first reaction is to kill the kid? The father would of known what the kid had, I thought he at least would of told the cops what was actually going on or what the kid possessed. Not only are the cops at fault, but the father should be canned for allowing this tragedy to happen in the first place.

Forgive me for not reading the entirety of this thread. Forgive me if somebody already noted this.....I just had to jump in........

Ever heard of suicide by cop? How about murder by cop?

Who called the police? Who (may have) (could have) manipulated this kid to a frenzy, and then called the police?

Why wouldn't the family member, who called, inform the police of his disability? Why are they (the family) so out of control? What's wrong with them? Drugs?

Its a strange story, smells of set up. I have to look at the "Law and Order" "other" side of the story. (Law and Order Music here)

reply to post by CaptainNemo


Actually for once, and this rarely happens. I am on the side of the police officers here.
It was in a basement, we dont know the whole story. Perhaps it was dark and the officers had no time to react or see that it was simply a butterknife. But fact is, if you perform an armed attack against a cop, you will get shot. Fair and square. That goes for the insane, the handicapped, the "normal" and kids with aspergers. Tough luck, dont attack an officer of the law. Simple as that.

Why call the police in to deal with a kid with autism? I don't get it. Why didn't they call a specialist/doctor?

Originally posted by CaptainNemo

Source

Just before 8:30 a.m., Calumet City police responded to a call at the home on the 500 block of Forsythe. Police say 15-year-old Stephon Watts was in the basement and apparently had been fighting with his father. When two officers went downstairs, police say the boy lunged at the officers with a knife. The boy's father, who witnessed it, says it was only a butter knife. Both officers fired one shot each at the boy. He was pronounced dead the hospital a short while later.

Do you think the shooting was justifiable.? The police department had knowledge of the boys handicap, and previously have dealt with the same situation, using tasers to subdue him. The article also says the lead officer did not have a taser on him, Why.?

Police say they knew the boy suffered from Asperger's syndrome. They had previously responded to the home 10 times and say the boy had attacked officers before

A loaded weapon on a kid with autism .? I just don't understand that with all the training and ways to subdue a person NON-lethaly, you still fire two rounds into a kid who allegedly had a butter knife.?

U must understand that police is law....What ever they do,is legal. Their job is to protect and serve....rich!

Reply to post by HallamFoe

People call the police for all sorts of inappropriate reasons. An argument over chores, a late pizza delivery, a telemarketing call interrupts dinner, they're sicced on people for amusement or revenge, all sorts of ridiculous things.

The whole "serve and protect" ideal is at best 5% of the job. The rest is putting up with drunks and morons while trying to cover your increasingly jaded outlook.

Is it really any wonder why theyre so eager to tase, tackle and shoot?

911 switchboards the nation over are clogged with nonsense. Dispatchers the nation over are clogged with nonsense.

Firefighters are the lucky ones. Their BS levels are much lower. And they're never in a position to crack a persons head open with that fire ax.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

For starters the parents can rot in hell, they have no one to blame but themselves for getting the stazi involved with their family like that, what an ignorant, irresponsible and stupid thing to do!! call the police on your children, Filthy.

Secondly, He was in a basement... leave him there, lock the door, he's not gonna harm anyone but himself.

When will people learn not top rely on police? They are so often little more then violent bloodthirsty animals, filthy disgusting scum... And recruitment policies around the world seem to be letting more and more deranged lunatics into the force...

There was a day when you could trust a cop... but most of the good ones are retired and any that are left are certainly in a minority.

To the good cops out there... get out while you can.. go into some other line of work cause the police force's of the world are quickly on theior way to being remembered as fondly as the Nazi's.

reply to post by needlenight


Agreed, if someone with a knife jumps at a cop there's a good chance the cop will protect his own life. I would do the same if someone armed jumps at me. I doubt they had the time to see what the knife was.

The more interesting question is why the father can't handle his son and needed police help. Looks like bad and lazy parenting.