Atlantis is....Totally OBVIOUS

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by lostinspace

Speaking of Masonry check out the ancient seaport of Tyre from 332 B.C. It’s constructed in a similar fashion to Tenochtitlan. The sea port looks different today because of Alexander the Great’s siege.

Ah no, Tyre is build on an island off the coast in the sea. Tenochtitlan was built on a lake. The cities* were built 5,000 years apart in time....

* Tyre probably started as just a fisherman's habitation while Teno was built from scratch as an easy to defend capitol

edit on 4/2/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

So the fisherment of Tyre wanted to defend their choice fishing hole? That sounds like todays fishermen.

Tenochtitlan is situated on two islands within Lake Texcoco. Both cultures defended their home by being surrounded by water. It's just that Tyre was more ancient than Tenochtitlan.

The twin islands upon which Tenochtitlan and Tlatelolco were built did not at first sight appear to have the resources needed for the growth of an empire.

mitchtestone.blogspot.com...

This mystery lies with the Toltec origins.

Originally posted by Harte


That's the vara I'd heard of. Read it while disputing the Noah story.

Do you have any links to the earlier Vara with the rings?

Never heard of it. Can you show that Plato had?

Harte

VENDIDAD: Fargard 2. Yima and the deluge from avesta.org.

i don't dispute the noah story except for that fact that it was a cowpen and not a boat and on the danube not the t&e

did plato know of zoroaster? google plato and plagiarize and zoroaster. i recon he's been accused of that for over 2000years and he had a published opinion of when the fellow lived as i recall? maybe just google plato and zoroaster for that.

the cowpen exists and its not at the bottom of the sea or some other impossible place. its one of the most often depicted structures in ancient art and well described in ancient literature. it was unique then and its unique now.

Originally posted by Parta


VENDIDAD: Fargard 2. Yima and the deluge from avesta.org.

This general link points to the place I provided the quotes from earlier. Please link specifically to the part which talks about the earlier varas with the rings. Is it the arctic place you think is Atlantis?

did plato know of zoroaster? google plato and plagiarize and zoroaster. i recon he's been accused of that for over 2000years

Then point to the Greek or Roman source for that. Now if Plato in some way heard of the story and incorporated it into his story. What is the first date for this claim? That means he took a common myth and used it, not that 'Atlantis' existed.

and he had a published opinion of when the fellow lived as i recall? maybe just google plato and zoroaster for that.

I think that is your obligation and not ours

the cowpen exists and its not at the bottom of the sea or some other impossible place. its one of the most often depicted structures in ancient art and well described in ancient literature. it was unique then and its unique now.

How do you know its a cowpen? Isn't it really just your opinion it is a cowpen and isn't also just your opinion that this rectangle is the one from the stories? Didn't you earlier complain that they wouldn't let you dig there? Or was that some other place?

Originally posted by Hanslune

This general link points to the place I provided the quotes from earlier. Please link specifically to the part which talks about the earlier varas with the rings. Is it the arctic place you think is Atlantis?

everything he builds up to the rectangular vara is the first vara. he goes out with his shovel and he follows the sun. the sun goes in a circle across the ground [or an arc]

Originally posted by Hanslune

Then point to the Greek or Roman source for that. Now if Plato in some way heard of the story and incorporated it into his story. What is the first date for this claim? That means he took a common myth and used it, not that 'Atlantis' existed.

google it yourself and say its not there. go ahead. i'm not your slave.

Originally posted by Hanslune
I think that is your obligation and not ours

i think you've got an obligation to yourself to learn something. i can't teach you everything.

Originally posted by Hanslune
How do you know its a cowpen? Isn't it really just your opinion it is a cowpen and isn't also just your opinion that this rectangle is the one from the stories? Didn't you earlier complain that they wouldn't let you dig there? Or was that some other place?

i call it a cowpen for convenience. call it an enclosure then.

i compained that they wouldn't let me pay for the work i commissioned and wouldn't let me have the work filmed. as i said this rectangle is one of the most commonly depicted item in ancient art. both it and it in its landscape.

Originally posted by Parta

everything he builds up to the rectangular vara is the first vara. he goes out with his shovel and he follows the sun. the sun goes in a circle across the ground [or an arc]

No link, no quote and no resemblance to Atlantis, your statements about anything on any subject if not backed by a real link to a real facts will be considered unproven.....next

google it yourself and say its not there. go ahead. i'm not your slave.

Points deemed to be conceded, the claimer failed to provide evidence

i think you've got an obligation to yourself to learn something. i can't teach you everything.

LOL - sorry dude if you cannot even be bothered to provide evidence for you own claims - I'm sure not going to do it? I believe this is your way of dodging the fact that there is not such evidence. In the future don't make claims you cannot support - if you do we'll just have to make mock you, lol

i call it a cowpen for convenience. call it an enclosure then.

You didn't answer the question; how do you know what this enclosure is for? Who built it and when? If you don't know that you can speculate but you cannot state it is 'x', or 'y'

Parta this is your problem: you are voicing opinions and seem to want us to take them as facts - that isn't going to happen. If you make a claim you must provide evidence; if you are just speculating state as much

we have established that you are the expert right hans?

Originally posted by Hanslune


Points deemed to be conceded, the claimer failed to provide evidence

posting something you know to be incorrect is against the terms here. shall i compile a list for them? saying i wasn't the source and posting a link to me being the source? you know plato was accused of plagiaring too.

Originally posted by Hanslune


LOL - sorry dude if you cannot even be bothered to provide evidence for you own claims - I'm sure not going to do it? I believe this is your way of dodging the fact that there is not such evidence. In the future don't make claims you cannot support - if you do we'll just have to make mock you, lol


You didn't answer the question; how do you know what this enclosure is for? Who built it and when? If you don't know that you can speculate but you cannot state it is 'x', or 'y'

Parta this is your problem: you are voicing opinions and seem to want us to take them as facts - that isn't going to happen. If you make a claim you must provide evidence; if you are just speculating state as much

the point was to prove the structures are man made, of a scale and of a date that is indicative. the fact that there are canals, gridded farmland, the pen, the city of troy etc will allow people to make a judgement that will be 100% unhindered by yourself. thats the best part i think.

do you realize that you say things that are not true and everybody sees that?

Alot of people forget that Atlantis is also mentioned by Diodorus...although the story is quite different than Plato's. Here is part specifically about Atlantis (not sure which translation this is from):

54. Setting out from the city of Cherronesus, the account continues, the Amazons embarked upon great ventures, a longing having come over them to invade many parts of the inhabited world. The first people against whom they advanced, according to the tale, was the Atlantians, the most civilized men among the inhabitants of those regions, who dwelt in a prosperous country and possessed great cities; it was among them, we are told, that mythology places the birth of the gods, in the regions which lie along the shore of the ocean, in this respect agreeing with those among the Greeks who relate legends, and about this we shall speak in detail a little later. Now the queen of the Amazons, Myrina, collected, it is said, an army of thirty thousand foot-soldiers and three thousand cavalry, since they favored to an unusual degree the use of cavalry in their wars. For protective devices they used the skins of large snakes, since Libya contains such animals of incredible size, and for offensive weapons, swords and lances; they also used bows and arrows, with which they struck not only when facing the enemy but also when in flight, by shooting backwards at their pursuers with good effect. Upon entering the land of the Atlantians they defeated in a pitched battle the inhabitants of the city of Cerne, as it is called, and making their way inside the walls along with the fleeing enemy, they got the city into their hands; and desiring to strike terror into the neighboring peoples they treated the captives savagely, put to the sword the men from the youth upward, led into slavery the children and women, and razed the city. But when the terrible fate of the inhabitants of Cerne became known among their fellow tribesmen, it is related that the Atlantians, struck with terror, surrendered their cities on terms of capitulation and announced that they would do whatever should be commanded them, and that the queen Myrina, bearing herself honorably towards the Atlantians, both established friendship with them and founded a city to bear her name in place of the city which had been razed; and in it she settled both the captives and any native who so desired. Whereupon the Atlantians presented her with magnificent presents and by public decree voted to her notable honors, and she in return accepted their courtesy and in addition promised that she would show kindness to their nation. a gorgonAnd since the natives were often being warred upon by the Gorgons, as they were named, a folk which resided upon their borders, and in general had that people lying in wait to injure them, Myrina, they say, was asked by the Atlantians to invade the land of the afore-mentioned Gorgons. But when the Gorgons drew up their forces to resist them a mighty battle took place in which the Amazons, gaining the upper hand, slew great numbers of their opponents and took no fewer than three thousand prisoners; and since the rest had fled for refuge into a certain wooded region, Myrina undertook to set fire to the timber, being eager to destroy the race utterly, but when she found that she was unable to succeed in her attempt she retired to the borders of her country. 55. Now as the Amazons, they go on to say, relaxed their watch during the night because of their success, the captive women, falling upon them and drawing the swords of those who thought they were conquerors, slew many of them; in the end, however, the multitude poured in about them from every side and the prisoners fighting bravely were butchered one and all. Myrina accorded a funeral to her fallen comrades on three pyres and raised up three great heaps of earth as toms, which are called to this day "Amazon Mounds". But the Gorgons, grown strong again in later days, were subdued a second time by Perseus, the son of Zeus, when Medusa was queen over them; and in the end both they and the race of the Amazons were entirely destroyed by Heracles, when he visited the regions to the west and set up his pillars in Libya, since he felt that it would ill accord with his resolve to be the benefactor of the whole race of mankind if he should suffer any nations to be under the rule of women. The story is also told that the marsh Tritonis disappeared from sight in the course of an earthquake, when those parts of it which lay towards the ocean were torn asunder.

Originally posted by Parta
we have established that you are the expert right hans?

Nope and if you continue to try and make stuff up about me Parta I'll report you? Now your attempt to change the subject has been dealt with...lol

posting something you know to be incorrect is against the terms here. shall i compile a list for them? saying i wasn't the source and posting a link to me being the source? you know plato was accused of plagiaring too.

In what 1926? Does that mean it was proven true? yes or no. Was there a declaration by Greek or Roman writers that Plato plagarized? If so please post a link to it.

Lets say for the moment he did plagarize and took some of the ideas from the Persians - does this in any way prove that Atlantis was in Central Europe? Nope

the point was to prove the structures are man made, of a scale and of a date that is indicative. the fact that there are canals, gridded farmland, the pen, the city of troy etc will allow people to make a judgement that will be 100% unhindered by yourself. thats the best part i think.

You mean you want to speculate and based on the lack of supporting evidence create a fringe theory that Atlantis was in a lake in central Europe....okay you have speculated that....great. It was almost like you were saying earlier that you had evidence to support this contention.

I noticed you added in Troy how does Troy fit into your little speculation?

Originally posted by Hanslune


Nope and if you continue to try and make stuff up about me Parta I'll report you? Now your attempt to change the subject has been dealt with...lol

what did i make up? you posting every 2 minutes on every topic. seems statistically to prove that you believe you are an expert

Originally posted by Hanslune

In what 1926? Does that mean it was proven true? yes or no. Was there a declaration by Greek or Roman writers that Plato plagarized? If so please post a link to it.

Lets say for the moment he did plagarize and took some of the ideas from the Persians - does this in any way prove that Atlantis was in Central Europe? Nope

i believe the men wiki mentions lived in the 3rd centiry bc not 1926. its painful for me to watch you. i cant watch judge judy either. what one proves is the archaeological link between the persians and central europe. remember all the new artifacts that noone has compared to anything persian yet...maybe

Originally posted by Hanslune

You mean you want to speculate and based on the lack of supporting evidence create a fringe theory that Atlantis was in a lake in central Europe....okay you have speculated that....great. It was almost like you were saying earlier that you had evidence to support this contention.

I noticed you added in Troy how does Troy fit into your little speculation?

my little speculation? so are you saying that there is no sea with the geological structure in it and no canals and gridded farmland and enclosure etc?

mythology says posiedon and apollo built troy so really there could be a huge city built about 1400bc and a huge temple of apollo near atlantis and coincidenty there is.

Originally posted by Parta

what did i make up? you posting every 2 minutes on every topic. seems statistically to prove that you believe you are an expert

In reponse to your posting, so are you an expert Parta? For my part it doesn't take an expert to deal with this amateur claim

i believe the men wiki mentions lived in the 3rd centiry bc not 1926. its painful for me to watch you. i cant watch judge judy either. what one proves is the archaeological link between the persians and central europe. remember all the new artifacts that noone has compared to anything persian yet...maybe

You believe - why not post the quote and know?

Then don't read me while I demolish your speculation about Atlantis in central Europe. Simple, lol

my little speculation? so are you saying that there is no sea with the geological structure in it and no canals and gridded farmland and enclosure etc?

A lake and Plato said it was the Atlantic - a small point but very telling, lol. Everything piece of land in the world has a 'geological structure' in it, many places have alleged canals, many places in europe have enclosures - what you have to do is show that they are related to Atlantis - which unfortunately you have not

mythology says posiedon and apollo built troy so really there could be a huge city built about 1400bc and a huge temple of apollo near atlantis and coincidenty there is.

Just in the wrong place and thousands of year off other than that great!

Originally posted by Hanslune

In reponse to your posting, so are you an expert Parta? For my part it doesn't take an expert to deal with this amateur claim

am i an expert? yes. that means university professors email me for information. it means that archaeologists and geologists go where i tell them. i'm you're newswire remember.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Then don't read me while I demolish your speculation about Atlantis in central Europe. Simple, lol

demolish with what? you're a tourtist at best. an electron tiger. praying noone clicks a link. what have you known so far? know anything about geography? anthropolgy? archaeology? what please tell me. you've known none of the orthodox science that i've shown you and thats because you figured 5 years ago you knew everything.

Originally posted by Hanslune

A lake and Plato said it was the Atlantic - a small point but very telling, lol. Everything piece of land in the world has a 'geological structure' in it, many places have alleged canals, many places in europe have enclosures - what you have to do is show that they are related to Atlantis - which unfortunately you have not

no plato said the pelagos of atlas. thats part of okeanos potamos and thats not the atlantic ocean sorry.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Just in the wrong place and thousands of year off other than that great!

now you are saying what? troy was built when? iarcuri, the largest city in the world until 600ad was built when? what are you talking about 1000years off. are you mad? and please quote one piece of evidence that says troy is in turkey beside tuebingen... and they went to war amongst themselves over whether it was or not.

Originally posted by Parta

am i an expert? yes. that means university professors email me for information. it means that archaeologists and geologists go where i tell them. i'm you're newswire remember.

LOL, that is your claim it would seem but your claims are so easily dismissed why would they value your opinion? If you are so powerful why don't you get them to provide you with some proof?

demolish with what? you're a tourtist at best. an electron tiger. praying noone clicks a link. what have you known so far? know anything about geography? anthropolgy? archaeology? what please tell me. you've known none of the orthodox science that i've shown you and thats because you figured 5 years ago you knew everything.

We showed by forcing you to provide actual links that most of your story about Atlantis in central europe is just your opinion, you have no hard facts. Faced with this failure you have tried over and over again to deflect the discussion to personal attacks on me....hasn't worked

no plato said the pelagos of atlas. thats part of okeanos potamos and thats not the atlantic ocean sorry.

....and this is were the massive ego driven fail begins, we've already gone thru this Parta. It doesn't say that, never has, nor do you have the support of actual Greeks speaking experts. You are doing what is called

Fringe reset: After having been shown that a claim or evidence doesn't support their contention a believer will wait a few hours, days, weeks or even months and then suddenly, all the previous discussion disappears and the original claim, unsullied springs forth again....lol


Sorry not going over it again with you. However as you claim to be an expert could you list the scholars who can actually read ancient Greek who agree with you - if not why are you unable to show that a consensus of the expert agree with you, a self proclaimed expert. lol

reply to post by coredrill


yea, ok, just to be clear. the order of the quest is made up of many groups, including Freemasons, Rosicrusions, and other mysteries that predate Modern Freemasonry. The point is, even though there are many outwardly individual "groups", they are anonymously aligned to the same goal, namely, World Socialism.

Originally posted by rainbowbear
reply to post by coredrill

 

yea, ok, just to be clear. the order of the quest is made up of many groups, including Freemasons, Rosicrusions, and other mysteries that predate Modern Freemasonry. The point is, even though there are many outwardly individual "groups", they are anonymously aligned to the same goal, namely, World Socialism.

They haven't done a very good job - if they wanted Socialism why did they promote Royalty for thousands of years?

reply to post by Christosterone


American schools may be Eurocentric but we in England were never taught much about South America except for the optional Geography classes (we had three years compulsory learning the basics and the last two years we had to choose either Geography or History and I went with the latter with lessons on WW2 and JFK's assassination while a friend studied Macha Piccu in the Geography class).

In my opinion i agree with the current idea of atlantis being the ancient civilization on the island of Thera ( now known as Santorini) which in the early bronze age suffered a volcanic blast which wiped out the advanced peoples that lived there. Plato describes red white and black stone used in the buildings and to this day these stones are still used. the Therans were a sea going peole who traded all over the mediteranean and as far as britain where they obtained tin for use in the bronze forgeing process.

Originally posted by adarmis
In my opinion i agree with the current idea of atlantis being the ancient civilization on the island of Thera ( now known as Santorini) which in the early bronze age suffered a volcanic blast which wiped out the advanced peoples that lived there. Plato describes red white and black stone used in the buildings and to this day these stones are still used. the Therans were a sea going peole who traded all over the mediteranean and as far as britain where they obtained tin for use in the bronze forgeing process.

Thanks for contributing....
I gave your first Star!!!!
Welcome to ATS......

As far as Santorini goes, I agree with you that it is high on the list of possible Atlantis locations....
Hopefully we will find a map one day which has an x marked Atlantis.....but probably not

-Christosterone

reply to post by Ambrosius25


Sshh, don't confuse people with fact - speculation and wild theory seems to rule the roost instead!

I am sure there is a link somewhere between the Amazons (of legend) and the Sycthians (of reality). If so, then anyone looking for Atlantis should be heading that way then, surely?

And then it confuses me more by going on about Libya? That was nowhere near the Scyths! Even more confusion to the tale........

Many years ago, i read somewhere that traces of coc aine and were nicotine were found on an Egyptian mummy. If this is true then it strenthens the idea of a cross atlantic trade in ancient times as both drugs are native to the americas. Your thoughts please

Originally posted by adarmis
Many years ago, i read somewhere that traces of coc aine and were nicotine were found on an Egyptian mummy. If this is true then it strenthens the idea of a cross atlantic trade in ancient times as both drugs are native to the americas. Your thoughts please

8 Nov 2011: David Counsell writes in with what looks like a vital corrective. ‘I am a medical doctor who has worked with the Manchester Mummy Project since the Mid 1990s. I looked at this as part of my PhD on Intoxicant use in Ancient Egypt and my results have been published in 2 sources in addition to my thesis - check out Chapter 13 in Egyptiam Mummies and Modern Science, Editor Rosalie David; which gives a full explanation. In a nutshell the amount of these drugs found in the mummies was overestimated as rather than being presented in the common unit, nanogrames per mg of sample material (ng/mg) they were presented as nanogrames per gram of sample (ng/g) giving a figure 1000 fold exaggerated. When you adjust the unit you find that the level of nicotine found is not as high as in smokers and is consistent with a dietary source of nicotine eg Celery which was known to the Ancient Egyptians. Similarly the coc aine level once corrected is so low as to be considered negative by most labs in the mid 1990s and is most likely a trace contaminant form the lab where the work was done. Overall the explanation is quite dull which perhaps explains why it hasn’t had the same publicity as the original ‘discovery’.

Counsell, D. C., "Intoxicants in Ancient Egypt? Opium, nymphea, coca, and tobacco," in David, Ann Rosalie, ed. Egyptian Mummies and Modern Science, Cambridge University Press, 2008, ISBN 978-0521865791 p.213