Atlantis is....Totally OBVIOUS

here's a thought...

if the land of Atlantis lay beyond the pillars of Hercules

might we conjure up the notion that the now defunct SpaceShuttle was launched
with two modern "Pillars of Hercules" attached (external tanks)
en.wikipedia.org...


here again we might be looking at ancient astronauts
meaning 'Atlantis' lay beyond the known ocean, perhaps up in the sky & the use of attached external booster rocket engines were needed to reach this place called Atlantis

Originally posted by St Udio
here's a thought...

if the land of Atlantis lay beyond the pillars of Hercules

might we conjure up the notion that the now defunct SpaceShuttle was launched
with two modern "Pillars of Hercules" attached (external tanks)
en.wikipedia.org...


here again we might be looking at ancient astronauts
meaning 'Atlantis' lay beyond the known ocean, perhaps up in the sky & the use of attached external booster rocket engines were needed to reach this place called Atlantis

OR

We could read what Plato put into Timaeus and Critias - which described a technology similar to Athens of his time.

A quote from Critias

The entire country was divided into sixty thousand lots, each of which was a square of ten stadia; and the owner of a lot was bound to furnish the sixth part of a war-chariot, so as to make up ten thousand chariots, two horses and riders upon them, a pair of chariot-horses without a seat, and an attendant and charioteer, two hoplites, two archers, two slingers, three stone-shooters, three javelin-men, and four sailors to make up the complement of twelve hundred ships.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Inventive theory. The main obstacle to this idea of Tenochtitlan as Atlantis, not dismissing all the objections noted above, is that the Aztec capital wasn't built until 1325 AD.


Hey Wrabbit

Just don't push any red buttons to see what they do. Some if it may very well still work.

I believe you are just funnin' but just encase you are not...the Atlantis Plato described had technology equal to Athens of his time. The 'advanced' Atlantis is a creature of later myth makers

I'm about half joking. If it's really the Atlantis of Plato's description and the timing is right on estimates of age based on that, we absolutely haven't found it yet and who knows what it'll look like or have when we do. The estimates I see guess it back to around 9500-9600 B.C. at least. That brings us to a magic number in historical terms. Right about 11,500 years ago.

Anything that clicks back with that date gets my ears sticking straight up and bells ringing. (Try simply net searching 11,400 years ago and see how much pops outside the tabloid level material.) So, I'm not someone obsessed with the myths or legends, but I do think it existed and I believe timing places their civilization in a period where quite a lot was happening. A lot was also said to have been known in ancient knowledge, like astronomy at a rather impressive level, that does make one wonder.

SO who knows.... It's that uncertainty that makes life interesting.

Originally posted by flexy123
I am actually tending towards the most recent theory

www.msnbc.msn.com...

that atlantis was found and is now burried in the mud, north of Cadiz in Spain, in the marshlands of the Dona Ana Park.

Simply because this theory is most plausible to me.

This is my favorite of the theories to: Atlantis = Tarshish/Tartessos. It makes sense and would be beyond the pillars of Hercules, and would have been within reach of invading the Mediterranean.

I've been leaning towards South America and some surrounding areas as well for years. About 10 to 12,000 years ago during the last ice age, most of North America was covered in ice. Sea levels were at least 100 feet maybe 100 meters lower than they are today. Many structures could be underwater. Anyway I've seen some tv shows discussing the possibility. One guy found ruins in Peru that seem to match up with Plato's descriptions of a ringed city. Sorry I do not remember the name of the show. In another show unless it was the same one, they talked about the 10,000 year old canals that still function in South America in the jungle. They showed cultivated land or where it used to be cultivated I believe they said about 10,000 years ago. The evidence is visible using satellite photography. The tv show stated that it would take a population of 100 million people to cultivate all that land. A population that big 10,000 years ago is enormous.

Then there is evidence of global trade in mummies found from long ago. Cocoa remains were found in mummies in Egypt and that substance is grown in South America. I believe underwater structures off the coast of Japan may date back that far as well. I'm not sure about that one. If a global catastrophe struck with huge tsunamis sweeping across continents including South America due to comet impacts or massive explosions, then I could imagine the continents getting sunk underwater. People would get wiped out. Then the huge tsunamis recede and the continents reappear with massive loss of life as we have seen in recent years with smaller tsunamis.
Saying the continent sunk under the ocean would be just about the same thing as getting inundated by the ocean in a massive tsunami.

Originally posted by Osiris1953

Originally posted by Hanslune
I'd go with Santorini as one of the building blocks of the legend.

So in your mind it is an aggregate legend like the Arthurian tales? As opposed to being one place who's existence, history, etc, had simply been distorted due to generations of the tale being passed by word of mouth?

The problem with both ideas is that we have no evidence of any "word of mouth" or written myth that relates to anything even remotely resembling Plato's allegory.

So you have to speculate that such a story existed, then go on from there.

Not a very deductive methodology.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte


The problem with both ideas is that we have no evidence of any "word of mouth" or written myth that relates to anything even remotely resembling Plato's allegory.

So you have to speculate that such a story existed, then go on from there.

Not a very deductive methodology.

Harte

exactly what has to occur for something to be remotely similar? yima builds a three ringed city of canals and land on the edge of the great lake in paradise. a flood comes and only a rectangular cowpen is left overlooking the lake. the cowpen is attacked by the hercules.

in greek mythology they built a three ringed city of land and water on the edge of the great lake in paradise. a flood comes and what is left is the rectangular cowpen on gadiera. the cowpen is attacked by heracles.

seems pretty similar to me.

Howdy Wrabbit

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

I'm about half joking. If it's really the Atlantis of Plato's description and the timing is right on estimates of age based on that, we absolutely haven't found it yet and who knows what it'll look like or have when we do. The estimates I see guess it back to around 9500-9600 B.C. at least. That brings us to a magic number in historical terms. Right about 11,500 years ago.

Fringe has assigned all sorts of 'magical' aspects to that number that and 10,500, etc

Anything that clicks back with that date gets my ears sticking straight up and bells ringing. (Try simply net searching 11,400 years ago and see how much pops outside the tabloid level material.) So, I'm not someone obsessed with the myths or legends, but I do think it existed and I believe timing places their civilization in a period where quite a lot was happening. A lot was also said to have been known in ancient knowledge, like astronomy at a rather impressive level, that does make one wonder.

Well believing in Atlantis is one thing - finding it is another.....perhaps it IS out there somewhere!

Originally posted by Parta

Originally posted by Harte


The problem with both ideas is that we have no evidence of any "word of mouth" or written myth that relates to anything even remotely resembling Plato's allegory.

So you have to speculate that such a story existed, then go on from there.

Not a very deductive methodology.

Harte

exactly what has to occur for something to be remotely similar? yima builds a three ringed city of canals and land on the edge of the great lake in paradise. a flood comes and only a rectangular cowpen is left overlooking the lake. the cowpen is attacked by the hercules.

Are you talking here about Yima's Vara?

If so, I see no resemblance.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte


Are you talking here about Yima's Vara?

If so, I see no resemblance.

Harte

yima's varas? there are two varas in the yima story. i hope this is not indictive of your familiarity with a story you say in no way resembles atlantis.

btw it would be nice to know what you think one would need to see for a "remote resemblance". i dare say the judge in my case would not be throwing anything out like you propose we do.

Originally posted by Parta

Originally posted by Harte


Are you talking here about Yima's Vara?

If so, I see no resemblance.

Harte

yima's varas? there are two varas in the yima story. i hope this is not indictive of your familiarity with a story you say in no way resembles atlantis.

btw it would be nice to know what you think one would need to see for a "remote resemblance". i dare say the judge in my case would not be throwing anything out like you propose we do.

edit on 3-2-2012 by Parta because: (no reason given)

Yes, are you saying a vara is similar to Atlantis?

Harte

Originally posted by Harte


Yes, are you saying a vara is similar to Atlantis?

Harte

well the first vara of yima was round and three canaled. the canals were there because he was having problems with fire and too many cows. calling it a vara means walls. the canals got progressively bigger.

after that was built the second vara where he and the animals sought refuge from the flood that destroyed the first vara.

gadiera's whole reason for being in platos story is because thats where the vara of posiedons grandson geryon is. it exists in greek mythology beyond platos tale and everyone would have known about it. its a giant cowpen on the great lake okeanos just like the pillars of hercules are on the great lake okeanos.

Harte some comments

Link

25. 'Therefore make thee a Vara, long as a riding-ground on every side of the square, and thither bring the seeds of sheep and oxen, of men, of dogs, of birds, and of red blazing fires. Therefore make thee a Vara, long as a riding-ground on every side of the square, to be an abode for man; a Vara, long as a riding-ground on every side of the square, for oxen and sheep.

33. And Yima made a Vara, long as a riding-ground on every side of the square. There he brought the seeds of sheep and oxen, of men, of dogs, of birds, and of red blazing fires. He made a Vara, long as a riding-ground on every side of the square, to be an abode for men; a Vara, long as a riding-ground on every side of the square, for oxen and sheep.

34. There he made waters flow in a bed a hathra long; there he settled birds, on the green that never fades, with food that never fails. There he established dwelling-places, consisting of a house with a balcony, a courtyard, and a gallery

38. In the largest part of the place he made nine streets, six in the middle part, three in the smallest. To the streets of the largest part he brought a thousand seeds of men and women; to the streets of the middle part, six hundred; to the streets of the smallest part, three hundred. That Vara he sealed up with the golden ring, and he made a door, and a window self-shining within.

Tale of Geryon- one verison

10th labour of Hercules -2nd verison

reply to post by Hanslune


thats the second vara.

a riding ground is a 5:2 rectangle.

the pen of geryon from cyprus

The stories of Atlantis are in fact the over exaggerated, mystified story of the ancient Americas.

There are ruins yet to be found that will be older than Caral and Tiwanaku timeline. Regardless, the stories that were past down to Solon then plato were old tales of the civilization the exists beyond the ocean. The Ancient Americans.

Most of us live on New Atlantis. Part of her main cities have been washed. All that remain are cays.

Howdy shadow herder, long time no read

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
The stories of Atlantis are in fact the over exaggerated, mystified story of the ancient Americas.

There are ruins yet to be found that will be older than Caral and Tiwanaku timeline. Regardless, the stories that were past down to Solon then plato were old tales of the civilization the exists beyond the ocean. The Ancient Americans.

its an interesting speculation but why would think it was there when Plato's story put it in the Atlantic just pass Gibraltar?

Most of us live on New Atlantis. Part of her main cities have been washed. All that remain are cays.

Even if 'washed away' the remains would still be there, pottery sherds are common on the beaches of the Mediterranean

Hello again, I'm actually kinda surprised about this thread, I totally thought other people thought like i did on this subject, I try to look at the big picture and this is what I came up with one night.

1. man has advanced on this planet many times and has traveled in space hundreds of thousands of years ago.

2. events occur that wipe most of mankind of the planet every so often.

3. we have stories of atlantis, mt olympus, gods, aliens, and advanced civilizations,

4. for man to last in space he would have to have a "mothership" something big enough to sustain a population for a long period of time.

So if there was an Atlantis which i believe there was I think it was a ancient man made space ship that landed in the ocean because it would support it better. I am willing to bet that when the people said "the ocean opened up and swallowed it" it was the only explanation that the uncivilized man could offer... instead of the whole island flew away. Also i believe that atlantis is the city that would sit at the top of mount olympus, the gods... just advanced humans with a god complex. Anyone think this sounds right?

Originally posted by mikem
Hello again, I'm actually kinda surprised about this thread, I totally thought other people thought like i did on this subject, I try to look at the big picture and this is what I came up with one night.

1. man has advanced on this planet many times and has traveled in space hundreds of thousands of years ago.

2. events occur that wipe most of mankind of the planet every so often.

The problem with that theory is there is no evidence to support it and a great deal of evidence against it. The fossil and archaeological, geological and other records show no prior human 'civilizations'. We will probably find more smaller ones like Catalhuyuk - but ones like Sumer, Egypt or Minoan? Its possible but not probably

Originally posted by Hanslune

I believe the basis of what you are remembering are the stories about the Canary Islanders, the Guanches who were most probably a branch of the Berber people - not quite nordic!

There were lots of contacts with Europeans in the classical and later periods with the first large scale incursion in the early 15th century when the Spanish (Castilians at that time) attacked

Cool....star for you..
Thanks for clearing that up....am I remembering the part about the 'tablets' correctly.
I couldnt find any information during a very brief check on wikipedia regarding said tablets...

Thanks again for the post..great info

-Chris

Originally posted by orionthehunter
I've been leaning towards South America and some surrounding areas as well for years. About 10 to 12,000 years ago during the last ice age, most of North America was covered in ice. Sea levels were at least 100 feet maybe 100 meters lower than they are today. Many structures could be underwater. Anyway I've seen some tv shows discussing the possibility. One guy found ruins in Peru that seem to match up with Plato's descriptions of a ringed city. Sorry I do not remember the name of the show. In another show unless it was the same one, they talked about the 10,000 year old canals that still function in South America in the jungle. They showed cultivated land or where it used to be cultivated I believe they said about 10,000 years ago. The evidence is visible using satellite photography. The tv show stated that it would take a population of 100 million people to cultivate all that land. A population that big 10,000 years ago is enormous.

Then there is evidence of global trade in mummies found from long ago. Cocoa remains were found in mummies in Egypt and that substance is grown in South America. I believe underwater structures off the coast of Japan may date back that far as well. I'm not sure about that one. If a global catastrophe struck with huge tsunamis sweeping across continents including South America due to comet impacts or massive explosions, then I could imagine the continents getting sunk underwater. People would get wiped out. Then the huge tsunamis recede and the continents reappear with massive loss of life as we have seen in recent years with smaller tsunamis.
Saying the continent sunk under the ocean would be just about the same thing as getting inundated by the ocean in a massive tsunami.

First off.....excellent post...star!!!
Secondly, I would LOVE to scuba the ruins in Japan.
I have seen so many shows on History Channel and Discovery about those ruins...
Its on my bucket list for sure....

And we cannot even imagine what is lost beneath the sea...I remember reading somewhere that sonar found hundreds of possible 'cities' in the Mediterranean....

One day maybe some little green men will show up and give us the answers to the test...and tell us our history in a nice little dvd wrapped with a bow

But, just like seeing man walk on mars....i think this event will not happen in my lifetime!!!

-Chris