Hugo Chavez: Warming Americans' hearts

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
reply to post by miniatus

 

This one isn't alphabetical, and of newer date.....

Denmark 52%
USA 3%

Source and date? .. and remind me again how this makes any difference to how awesome/horrible Chavez is?

Simply it doesn't and seems offtopic to me..

-SAP-

Originally posted by SloAnPainful

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
reply to post by miniatus

 

This one isn't alphabetical, and of newer date.....

Denmark 52%
USA 3%

Source and date? .. and remind me again how this makes any difference to how awesome/horrible Chavez is?

Simply it doesn't and seems offtopic to me..

-SAP-

It is very off topic .. the entire thread seems bent on promoting a communist dictator and demonizing the united states with statistics that have no relevancy to the topic .. unless the point is to try to make the united states look like the fat friend who's there only to make the other friend look better

reply to post by SkurkNilsen


Well, you seem to deny the veracity of the numbers from being presented alphabetical and I just wanted to point that out, if you felt insulted by that I am truely sorry, and I will refrain from being sarcastic in later conversations with you.

However I would like to point out that military foreign aid isn't really the issue, rather than humanetarian aid, which is what Chavez is giving the US.

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Foreign Aid Per Capita

This link suggests otherwise.

That list is sorted alphabetically, and only seems to account for money which makes it pretty useless if you ask me.. foreign aid comes in many forms.. the two biggest are money and military aid... also that is an old list, our foreign aid has been on an upwards trend since then.

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 2/2/2012 by miniatus because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/2/2012 by miniatus because: (no reason given)

Not the follow up I was hoping for but I think i can add something meaningful to this while i continue to look for foreign aid coming into the states.

[Americans] are regularly told by politicians and the media, that America is the world's most generous nation. This is one of the most conventional pieces of 'knowledgeable ignorance'. According to the OECD, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation.

Here is why, these are older figures but not that much has changed in this presidency suffice to say that the figures of money going out are probably even lower.

...absolute figures are less significant than the proportion of gross domestic product (GDP, or national wealth) that a country devotes to foreign aid. On that league table, the US ranks twenty-second of the 22 most developed nations.

'We are the stingiest nation of all'

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
reply to post by SkurkNilsen

 

Well, you seem to deny the veracity of the numbers from being presented alphabetical and I just wanted to point that out, if you felt insulted by that I am truely sorry, and I will refrain from being sarcastic in later conversations with you.

However I would like to point out that military foreign aid isn't really the issue, rather than humanetarian aid, which is what Chavez is giving the US.

You replied to the wrong person I believe ... the numbers have no relevancy in any way, shape or form to the topic you presented .. I questioned your data merely because it was extremely out of date, the recent trends are VERY different than what you presented.. and what you present doesn't include any other forms of aid which makes it very lacking and deceptive .. despite all of that however, it again.. has nothing to do with hugo Chavez .. at all ..

reply to post by miniatus


Sorry forgot to link there Happens....
Wil edit into the other post aswell.

Commitment to foreign aid by nation

reply to post by clowdstalker


That still seems to only account for financial aid .. and while percentage of GDP does give you a sort of "stingiest" scale to work with.. it's interesting, but still if I gave you a dollar and I only had two, but another guy gave you 500 out of his million.. his $500 is still a much larger benefit than my $1.00 .. =)

As for foreign aid going to US companies.. that's not a shock, it helps control how the money is spent.. and the money still goes to helping the country that receives the aid .. whether it be paying construction crews to rebuild homes, hospitals and other such things.. or whether it be paying medical teams to treat sick and wounded.. security forces to prevent harm .. scientists to study natural disasters.. it's still foreign aid..

There are many forms of aid.. the dollar figures alone are misleading.. that can't be understated

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Foreign Aid Per Capita

This link suggests otherwise.

Reguardless.

He is communist. I will never trade my freedom for warmth.

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
reply to post by miniatus

 

Sorry forgot to link there

Happens....
Wil edit into the other post aswell.

Commitment to foreign aid by nation

It says:

SOURCE: UNDP, Human Development Report 1998 (Oxford University Press, Oxford 1998)

Your other statistic was at least in the early 2000's this one is even older.. but still, I trust it to be probably not much different... 3% is still probably equal, in amount.. to the other countries much larger percentages.. however .. that does indicate we're are "stingier" as the other poster liked to point out

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Foreign Aid Per Capita

This link suggests otherwise.

Reguardless.

He is communist. I will never trade my freedom for warmth.

Here here! Could not agree more. He is a tyrant and freedom is worth more the warmth. Plus im from Minnesota I can deal with the cold

-SAP-

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Foreign Aid Per Capita

This link suggests otherwise.

Reguardless.

He is communist. I will never trade my freedom for warmth.

And that is the main point I'd like to think .. what he does, doesn't change who he is .. it's political posturing .. the war of hearts and minds.. I say, let him do it .. but I don't like him more for it .. still, the amount of US foreign aid that goes out has no relevancy to Chavez's project

Originally posted by AzureSky

Helping heat grannies house with some of his oil? Thats pretty nice of him to help support some americans. Seeing as how the american government won't.

Its not the governments job to heat my house. I want as little government intrusion in my life as possible.

They should build infrastructure, defend our borders and be responsible for law enforcement on a local and national level. Not being heartless, i also think a welfare system should be in place to provide for those mentally or physically disabled, but not the capable working folk. Those people who choose not to work shouldnt take away from those who do.

reply to post by miniatus

however .. that does indicate we're are "stingier" as the other poster liked to point out

From an interview in 1996, I know its old but as i said, not my words....

PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER: Well, you know, one of the things that I think we need to remember is that we have the greatest and only superpower on earth now. What is it that makes a great superpower? I would say it would be the champion of peace, freedom, and democracy, of human rights, environmental quality, and the alleviation of suffering, but when I travel in a foreign country, particularly Africa, my wife and I have been in 110 different countries, our nation is not looked upon as a champion of peace and as the most generous country on earth. In fact, we are the stingiest country on earth. Every time a Norwegian gives a dollar in foreign assistance for needy people, we give three cents. And so I think there's a great difference and a great way that we can go to realizing the hopes and dreams of Africa, which will exemplify the characteristics of a great superpower.

cs

Chavez is an enemy of the US government for several reasons:

1) He's anti-capitalist, pro-socialist
2) He been democratically voted president numerous times and isn't a US puppet dictator which is completely contrary to US foreign policy in SA.
3) He has successfully developed a type of SA unity with other countries trying to escape financial colonization that has kept other SA countries in 3rd world status.
4) He has proven time and time to have the backing of the majority of his people and their loyalty.
5) He has improved the quality of life for the middle class, the working class and the poor, not only in his country but others as well
6) He has withstood coups (backed by CIA and upper rich class Venezuelans which hate him) and assassination attempts.
7) His country has one of (if not the) largest oil reserves in SA, and isn't swayed by the IMF, WB or US. His country's oil is nationally owned.
8) He counts Bolivia, Cuba and Iran as allies.
9) He talks about the impact of US foreign policy and doesn't bite his tongue.

reply to post by SkurkNilsen


While I agree that Chavez has been good for the people of Venezuela, the same cannot be said for the for the financial interest of the corporate elite, especially when is comes to oil and telecommunications. Most of the Chavez bashing originates from people who are either heavily invested in these industries or those who already became ultra wealthy off of them. These are people who prey on the poor and utilize their desperation to enhance their own wealth even further.

The people who bash Chavez are, by and large, the very same ones who have outsourced american jobs to China in their never ending quest to enhance profits at all cost. God forbid we let the needs of people interfere with a corporation's ability to make unlimited profits.

As far as I can tell, Chavez has done a lot of good for his "people" and judging by the fact that he was re-elected, I think they agree. Just the same, you can expect a fair amount of criticism to be directed your way by those who support unfettered greed, but then, who listens to them anymore?

F&S for the OP.

reply to post by nightbringr


The US doesn't donate money to other countries it gives aid, and that aid is packaged with expectations such as privatization of natural resources, land and voting for US interests when the time comes (UN). It's a form of bribery not charity, lets not be naive.

Flatfish, Chewingonmushrooms and Clowdstalker:

You are taking the words out of my mouth, English is not my first language and it may fail me in many ways to conwey my meaning.
I knew from the start that this was going to be heated, but I find it interesting to see people dismissing a good deed just because he's a "commie"....
My M.O on ATS is really to get to the core of people's prejudice, and here we find it aplenty.

Thanks

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms
reply to post by nightbringr

 

The US doesn't donate money to other countries it gives aid, and that aid is packaged with expectations such as privatization of natural resources, land and voting for US interests when the time comes (UN). It's a form of bribery not charity, lets not be naive.

edit on 2-2-2012 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

And i also said i wasnt a fan of US foreign policy, right?

My point was that any country, no matter how corrupt can donate to try and make themselves look better. This is what Chavez is doing. Lets not be naive.

reply to post by nightbringr


I cannot know what his intentions are, but I look at his record with his own people and he has continued along that path which is taking care of the poor and middle class first.

The opposite is true with my own country (US), and I do know the track record for their ( as in "US gov." which is seperate from "the people") version of aid. I called a duck a duck. The easiest way to assume intentions is by looking at past actions, in that respect comparing US to Venezeula just doesn't make sense. But it is still an assumption obviously because I do not know for certain.

I understand the point you are trying to make, I simply disagree.

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms
Chavez is an enemy of the US government for several reasons:

1) He's anti-capitalist, pro-socialist
2) He been democratically voted president numerous times and isn't a US puppet dictator which is completely contrary to US foreign policy in SA.
3) He has successfully developed a type of SA unity with other countries trying to escape financial colonization that has kept other SA countries in 3rd world status.
4) He has proven time and time to have the backing of the majority of his people and their loyalty.
5) He has improved the quality of life for the middle class, the working class and the poor, not only in his country but others as well
6) He has withstood coups (backed by CIA and upper rich class Venezuelans which hate him) and assassination attempts.
7) His country has one of (if not the) largest oil reserves in SA, and isn't swayed by the IMF, WB or US. His country's oil is nationally owned.
8) He counts Bolivia, Cuba and Iran as allies.
9) He talks about the impact of US foreign policy and doesn't bite his tongue.

edit on 2-2-2012 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

Putin keeps winning elections too .. imagine that

Seriously.. even a Venezuela academic's study found in 2004 that there was election fraud in his favor.. despite the fraud in his elections, the opposition in his own country keeps gaining ground..

Point is .. winning an election over and over and over again doesn't necessarily mean it's valid or that you're the popular choice.

Source: Link