Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism

Originally posted by ImaFungi
yes,, but the people like electric universe, who are saying all these people with technology using all the things capitalism has brought them.... my argument it to the majority of people in the world how cannot find food for their stomachs they would take a crap on a 4g phone and the newer more expensive one that comes out next week..
...

I would love it if no soul on this planet would ever go hungry, but it does happen and there is only so much anyone can do.

What is wrong is wanting to FORCE people to do your will by implementing ideologies which are nothing more than lies, or even if such ideology is not a lie.

FORCING people to do anyone's will is wrong. No matter the excuse you want to make.

BTW, if you are a believer in AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) and agree with the claim that atmospheric CO2 must be sequestered from the atmosphere you are in fact agreeing with mass genocide on a global level.

Mostly leftwingers, in their belief that they exist to save the Earth, have jumped in the bandwagon of yet another set of lies which will bring nothing more than suffering to mankind and animal alike.

If the atmospheric CO2 content is lowered there will be less harvests worldwide which will cause yet more people to die of starvation. Yet leftwingers care not for those people who would die in this manner and would rather FORCE their new ideology, which is nothing but a lie, upon the world, like so many leftwingers in this thread want to FORCE socialism/communism upon the world yet again...

People should be able to CHOOSE FREELY what they want to do instead of being FORCED to do the will of leftwingers, corpocrats or anyone else who wants to FORCE his/her will on another human being.

Petrus4,
The problem with what you have "figured out" has a real serious hole in it. When you were young did you get punished for something you didn't do? This has happened to most of us, no big deal. When you have your Parents giving you everything, they can take everything away from you to punish you. IF, the government gives you everything, it can control you. The government can deny you things or give you things. the government can raise the price of gas to force you onto public transportation. The government can manipulate food and it's prices, the list goes on and on. Are you old enough to know about Russia's Socialist experiment, or perhaps China's Socialist system under Mao. A more recent case would be North Korea, where people are allowed to starve so the military will have food. Socialism may seem to be the answer to to your problems but, not mine.
You need to read some "Older" history books that tell the truth about the effects of Socialism on the people of The U.S.S.R. prior to 1980. You should find some interesting reading about bread lines, people freezing during winter for lack of fuel, torture of political prisoners, lack of infrastructure, and on and on....... Take it as a challenge, give it a read and get back to me

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


These people are duped into thinking that communism is a religion.
See my new thread on this!

Lets educate these gullibles!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by thehoneycomb

en.wikipedia.org...

necrometrics.com...

Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000 democides.

How can you spin this?

Go and read about what the British East India Company did to India, for starters.

I'm not going to argue with Lenin having been a monster. The problem is the fact that being singularly obsessed with the Bolsheviks (as at least one particular group) is exactly what the psychopaths want armchair Capitalist advocates to do.

Let me try and spell it out for you, as clearly as I can.

Both Capitalist and Marxist ideologies are going to lead to mass murder, for as long as the psychopaths are in charge of global society. Both of these ideologies are used as a smokescreen for the fact that what said psychopaths want more than anything else, and insist on, is a continual state of elitism for themselves, and the opposite for nearly everyone else. They've also taught you to think that Marx has exclusive ownership of the awareness of such, so that you become preoccupied with mentally chasing your tail where his name and its' associations are concerned.

Get rid of the psychopaths, and we can have several countries which worship von Mises or Rand as the Messiah if you want. The point is that until we get rid of the psychopaths, the above scenario is going to exist, and the rest of us are going to get shafted, irrespective of the ideological name that they try and hide behind, in order to falsely justify their behaviour.

Stalinist Russia and Maoist China have ultimately had the same scenario as any country that has ever claimed Capitalism. A microscopic minority with everything, and while in some countries there is a middle class who do reasonably well, for the most part the rest of the population are barely able to survive.

reply to post by petrus4

colonialism is not capitalism.
how can it be?
they forced opium on china and raped india.
not a free market. a forced market, and pillaging.
what has this got to do with capitalism, the free flow of goods.
only in your mind do they equate.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


i would never want to force anyone to do anything, i would never label myself with a political affiliation,,, if i was alive in any period of time in history i would never vote....

Do you know how corrupt the leaders, politicians, bankers, people behind the scenes in probably most countries are, u.s. definitely not excluded.... , countries with nukes on the brink of war,, revolutions every day, more and more people suffering, more and more people waking up, do you think this tumultuous time in history will nicely play it self out.... im not asking the few individuals on this thread to submit themselves to my ideologies, nothing us individuals can do will make a large enough effect on anything...
i would just rather see an ultimately peaceful and harmonious resolve,,, then the opposite... if there is no equal and opposite opposing force of good... how can there be a righteous resolution..

Originally posted by ImaFungi
what are some reasons why you wouldn't want to see a change in consciousness and systems to promote quality life and work for all?

Because a little bit of inequality is a good "school of life". It promotes a little competitive creativity. A completely level playing field turns into...North Korea.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by ImaFungi
what are some reasons why you wouldn't want to see a change in consciousness and systems to promote quality life and work for all?

Because a little bit of inequality is a good "school of life". It promotes a little competitive creativity. A completely level playing field turns into...North Korea.

When you've got psychopaths running things on a global level, yes. They are the primary issue, as I've said.

reply to post by BBalazs
How is it that you and others here can see socialists as misguided idealists and then you say 'The free market', how deluded and misguided is that?

The East India company saw an opportunity. They moved in and CONTROLED the production. They MONOPALISED the market and set the prices. They paid as little wage to the workforce as possible and extracted the maximum profit for a few. Where is that not capitalism? Where was the free market?

We see this today in every market. There is no such thing as 'the free market' and to claim otherwise is a blinkered view to allow you to take the high ground which makes you no better than those you argue against.

Originally posted by LifeSpeaker
Absence of political system means anarchy and the first thing that pops up into people's minds is 'chaos'! which I consider to be absurd because it is such a baseless opinion as we have yet to put this idea to test.

Once you have achieved your anarchy, you will be asking: "Alright, how can we organize stuff more efficiently?" by which you will be right back to politics. But in general I wouldnt mind less Government, so we agree on that.

The concept of a resource based economy (or RBE for short) could be considered an Anarcho-Technocracy in which the most relevant practical knowledge required to run society are carried out by technicians. It would be an open-sourced society, meaning that anyone could contribute to any aspect of society they wanted, assuming they have the requisite knowledge or skill to do so.

You think people are going to contribute without getting anything tangible in return? Im not seeing that to be the mentality of people in this age. Without some motivation there is no action, there is decay.

Talking about being in control of your own destiny, are you sure you are in this system? You do not even have the liberty of pursuing an interest which does not involve some monetary gain. Your outlook is greatly influenced by the media (which represents the propaganda of the government and huge corporations). So the choice of free will right now is just a mere illusion.

I have everything I need...air, food, water, shelter. As do most others. Those that do not can aim to get some.

reply to post by colin42


there cannot be a free market in a monopoly (with 1 participant). that is the very definition of communism my friend.
one ring to rule them all.
state controlled trade or pillaging in this case.
there you go, you answered your own question.
colonization, pillageing is not equal to capitalism.
state sponsored colonialism and monopolies are not free trade.
they are totalitarian concepts.

in capitalism all market particapents are equal. they are unequal due to PEOPLES choices, not TOP DOWN COMMANDS, such as COLONISE, RAPE!
How can you confuse the 2?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
FORCING people to do anyone's will is wrong. No matter the excuse you want to make.

The socialist-mindest can be summarized into "forcing good"...which, of course, is not really "good". A person no longer has the opportunity to chose between good and bad, which undermines the very soul of a human.

Id much rather donate money to the poor from my own free will than be forced to do so.

Originally posted by petrus4
I support feminism, to the extent of such being defined as women having the same right to vote, and the same educational and economic opportunities as men.

Then Im sure you are a great supporter of Sarah Palin and Condoleeza Rice?

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by ImaFungi
what are some reasons why you wouldn't want to see a change in consciousness and systems to promote quality life and work for all?

Because a little bit of inequality is a good "school of life". It promotes a little competitive creativity. A completely level playing field turns into...North Korea.

Who decides what the little bit of inequality is?

So a little bit of inequality within the sexes has served women well hasnt it.

You do not have to promote competition in the human species it is ingrained but for a game to be truley competitive there has to be a level playing ground and that is what builds the quality in the competition.

Creativity is ingrained and is nurtured by encouragement not oppression.

Inequality does in no way promote quality, life and certainly not work for all. It promotes envy and hatred and increasing inequality. The clue is in the word. INEQUALITY.

Originally posted by petrus4
When you've got psychopaths running things on a global level, yes. They are the primary issue, as I've said.

No one-group collective is running the show. Many competing groups of varying fallibility run the show.

Originally posted by colin42
Who decides what the little bit of inequality is?

So a little bit of inequality within the sexes has served women well hasnt it.

You do not have to promote competition in the human species it is ingrained but for a game to be truley competitive there has to be a level playing ground and that is what builds the quality in the competition.

Creativity is ingrained and is nurtured by encouragement not oppression.

Inequality does in no way promote quality, life and certainly not work for all. It promotes envy and hatred and increasing inequality. The clue is in the word. INEQUALITY.

There are people smaller and taller than you in body-height. There are people more mathematical and others more intuitive. There are people who would make good leaders and others that would make good salesmen and yet others that would make good workers and still others that would make good athletes.. There are many different cultures and customs and beliefs. By us, these are not understood as problems but as diversity. Diversity breeds learning and some conflict. If the conflict is overdone there can be a war now and then.

When faced with the fact that others are different than you and some are better at certain things than you, you can either accept your difference or you can strive to become better yourself, or you can do what a socialist does: Try to bring down those who are better than you (at certain things) down to your level. The latter option has been a cause of great devastation throughout History.

reply to post by Skyfloating


what do you think the next 20 years are going to be like?, if you dont mind expending some of your creative mind energy on me..

and what exactly do you mean by the school of life stuff? do you believe there is no way you could have ever been born to a poverished family?

is that what this is all about,,, your elite genealogy was brilliant enough to climb to the top in history... and the social darwinism, indirect #snip gene cleansing?

i will posit an abstract theory,..., the actions of the modern man/women,,, the capitalist/baron/ruler/elite, the families of extreme wealth...... the playing out of history how they accumulated their private properties and stored horded energy credits and valuables and what not.... is much how life started on this planet.... and the starting gates of the different races of species,,, it is a race... last one standing.... from the end of time,, the pure breeds are just trying to wait out the rest of the population... because you actually view it as a deadly competition.... you feel you would have been a fool to submit to love, and compassion.. those things cant get you anything or any where... just an idea that poped up,,, when trying to decipher the truth, of just exactly what is going on in this world,, i am not bias to all possible possibilities, it is stranger then fiction... it is cynical,, but the truth may be cynical.

reply to post by BBalazs

there cannot be a free market in a monopoly (with 1 participant). that is the very definition of communism my friend.

So you are saying that the corperations and multi nationals are actually communist companies persueing communist ideas. Please. The aim of these corperations is to dominate the market and take over or stifle the competion. To achieve a monopoly. You label it how you want but it does not in anyway validate your ideology.

one ring to rule them all.

No you answered it and answered it incorrectly as I pointed out.

in capitalism all market particapents are equal. they are unequal due to PEOPLES choices, not TOP DOWN COMMANDS, such as COLONISE, RAPE!

Oh please who is the misguided idealist here. Your statement above is so disconnected from reality that the only answer is. Please wake up, your snoring.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
what do you think the next 20 years are going to be like?, if you dont mind expending some of your creative mind energy on me..

quality of life has been steadily increasing since 1000 years, thanks to Science and Capitalism. It will continue to do so. There will be some upheaval here and there (war), but overall things are looking good.

and what exactly do you mean by the school of life stuff?

That adversity and challenge are not a bad thing.

o you believe there is no way you could have ever been born to a poverished family?

My family didnt have much money, but I worked myself up. It was fun.

i will posit an abstract theory,..., the actions of the modern man/women,,, the capitalist/baron/ruler/elite, the families of extreme wealth...... the playing out of history how they accumulated their private properties and stored horded energy credits and valuables and what not.... is much how life started on this planet.... and the starting gates of the different races of species,,, it is a race... last one standing.... from the end of time,, the pure breeds are just trying to wait out the rest of the population... because you actually view it as a deadly competition.... you feel you would have been a fool to submit to love, and compassion.. those things cant get you anything or any where... just an idea that poped up,,, when trying to decipher the truth, of just exactly what is going on in this world,, i am not bias to all possible possibilities, it is stranger then fiction... it is cynical,, but the truth may be cynical.

Compassion and love do get you places. Forced altruism and state regulated "compassion" dont get you anywhere.

reply to post by Skyfloating


there ya go www.abovetopsecret.com...


wouldnt it be nice if we all stopped the act and played nice?

go says if you dont play nice, none ya can play....

you dont share, there will be nothing to share.....


can we stop the INFANTILE war games.... anyone who uses that term, name calling to place them self on a pedestal is... you guessed it.

all those on the lower end of unequal.... im sure they would love all those taxes that paid for the armed forces daily square meals,, weapons, vehicles, planes... a fuctillion dollars.... this world is a joke... a stage for this drama to take place.....

there is nothing wrong with your actions, what you have done with your life,, i command you, i honor you.. i am not worthy ... but the ways of this world are insane... i was lied to growing up.... i thought we were intelligent, i thought we were civilized, it was a lie... in this school of life... the majority are in kindergarten.... savages...