Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism

Originally posted by CB328

capitalism works and socialism and communism don't.

I hate to break it to you, but most first or second world countries are socialist.

I hate to break it to you, but most first or second world countries are facing economic collapse because of public debt.

Congrats on completing step 1 of the awakening process. Next step: Understanding the source of greed.

@Electricuniverse

Solve what?... All socialism does is to consolidate all power to a few, including for corporations, and doesn't give any power whatsoever to the worker... Obviously people like you are totally oblivious to the past 100 years when every nation that has completely embraced socialism/communism has become nothing but a plague for the people...

False. Actually it the capitalist that consolidates power to the few. And it does so through private ownership of resources and anything else it can lay its hands on.

Corporations don't exist in a socialist system. That is a capitalist tool. Corporations working together with governments is fascism, a system America strongly resembles. The countries you refer to have nothing to do with socialism. It is a hijack. The Bolsheviks were financed by Wall Street bankers and who continued to fuel and supply the Sovjets for many years and even made sure they got the bomb. The capitalists used the (false) communist regimes to their advantage. The real aim was to destroy what socialism really was and hide the fact that it could work. A functioning socialist system is the worst nightmare of any ruling elite. It means they no longer have control over the resources or the workers. In the other words: they become obsolete.

Originally posted by ANOK

Oh boy, again?

Socialism is the workers ownership and control of the means of production.
Capitalism is the private ownership of...

Read through the thread for more details.

Oh boy yet again...

Do tell us Anok where do you live, and where have you lived all your life?...

Yes LIFE EXPERIENCE is more valuable than any book you can read... Anyone can write a book, but through LIFE EXPERIENCE YOU know from first hand what you are talking about...

Originally posted by JimmyNeutron
reply to post by ANOK

 

You keep blathering on about Spain and how the workers did this and the workers did that... I guarantee that the equipment they used came from capitalism.

Blather huh? Is that your best argument? I guess you're not here to read and actually think about what is being said.

Spain was a mess, factories were abandoned, the cities infrastructures were none existent. The trams were all broken, and not running. The revolution fixed all that. Some private owners gave up and joined the revolution, some were taken by force. But at that time working conditioned were brutal, if you were there you would do the same thing. Capitalism has been exploiting us for 200 years, why should I have any sympathy for them?

The world around them was capitalist and since no nation is an island unto itself and cannot satisfy all of its own resource demands the Spanish socialists had to operate on capitalist principles to interact with their suppliers.

What? No, free markets are not capitalism. Selling and making profit is not capitalism. Socialism has markets and profits. The difference is in who is in control of the means to produce for the market.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by ANOK

Oh boy, again?

Socialism is the workers ownership and control of the means of production.
Capitalism is the private ownership of...

Read through the thread for more details.

Oh boy yet again...

Do tell us Anok where do you live, and where have you lived all your life?...

Yes LIFE EXPERIENCE is more valuable than any book you can read... Anyone can write a book, but through LIFE EXPERIENCE YOU know from first hand what you are talking about...

edit on 2-2-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

Just because people have been hoodwinked into believing those regimes were socialist doesn't mean they're socialist. I could tell everyone that my apple is an orange but those who are uneducated in the difference will believe me.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Oh boy yet again...

Do tell us Anok where do you live, and where have you lived all your life?...

Yes LIFE EXPERIENCE is more valuable than any book you can read... Anyone can write a book, but through LIFE EXPERIENCE YOU know from first hand what you are talking about...

Edit; I get your point now lol...

Do you agree with those definitions, or not? Do those definitions scare you? Real life has nothing to do with it, if it doesn't fit those definitions then it isn't what it's claiming to be.

This has all been explained in this thread...

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by maestromason

 

if i get kicked out of my home, find my self starving on the streets,, in order to adapt to that change would it be smart of me to break into your home, kill you, and steal your things... survival of the smartest?

My satellite office is in my home so you would get to meet me.

You would also find yourself dead, prayed for and conveniently turned into Lake Erie trout food.

That is what INSURANCE IS FOR SO I DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT people like yourself breaking into my home for frivolous devices.

Why not just get on welfare?

You would save a life and that life is indeed YOUR OWN. Plus, it is a lot easier without disappearing.

Just because you own a house or a small business does not make you a captalist. You are all still workers. If you own a small business and think you are not a 'worker' you are kidding yourself.

Unless you are in a 'Trust' you are a worker.

Capitalism is human freedom, I agree. But it works well only when those humans are sane.
In an egotistical society such as ours, the people become easily corruptible and freedom is devastating. I'm not saying the answer is putting an end to freedom, but putting an end to being under the grasp of the ego. But to do this, we must first learn to let go of centuries of bad social programming. We've been told to think with our minds and not with our hearts. Its ok to chose love rather than hate, and peace rather than love. Do on to others as you want done to you. these are the teachings that nobody follows anymore, specially in our current capitalist societes.

Contrary to popular belief, you CAN be somebody in this world and not be egotistical. A few good examples of people who are not egotistical:
Richard Branson
Bono
Ron Paul
Albert Einstein
..and many others

Great post OP! It's good to hear you're actually reading up on this stuff and making a truly informed/introspective decision on it!!

You may be interested to read this...

EINSTEIN HIMSELF was an advocate of Socialism!

Why Socialism? by Albert Einstein

GEORGE ORWELL (the author of 1984) was also an advocate of Socialism/Anarchism!

Homage to Catalonia

Originally posted by dadgad


False. Actually it the capitalist that consolidates power to the few. And it does so through private ownership of resources and anything else it can lay its hands on.

WRONG...

This is the problem with socialists and communists who have never experienced what they claim is so marvelous...

Let's actually see the 10 planks of communism...AGAIN...

1.Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2.A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3.Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4.Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5.Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6.Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7.Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8.Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9.Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
10.Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form and combination of education with industrial production.[12]

en.wikipedia.org...

It is in socialism and in communism that all power is centralized.

BTW capitalism is an economic principle, it is not a form of government...

Originally posted by dadgad

Corporations don't exist in a socialist system.

Really?...

Let's actually read about it from a LEFTWING source...

Socialism /ˈsoʊʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system characterized by social ownership or control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy,(1) and a political philosophy advocating such a system. "Social ownership" may refer to any one of, or a combination of, the following: cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or autonomous state enterprises.(2) There are many variations of socialism and as such there is no single definition encapsulating all of socialism.(3) They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets versus planning, how management is to be organized within economic enterprises, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.(4)

en.wikipedia.org...

Let's read again whether or not corporations can have control of a nation in socialism...

Social ownership" may refer to any one of, or a combination of, the following: cooperative enterprises,

But pray tell, what is a "cooperative enterprise"?...

A cooperative (also co-operative or co-op) is a business organization owned and operated by a group of individuals for their mutual benefit.[1] A cooperative is defined by the International Cooperative Alliance's Statement on the Cooperative Identity as "an autonomous association of persons united voluntarily to meet their common economic, social, and cultural needs and aspirations through jointly owned and democratically controlled enterprise".[2] A cooperative may also be defined as a business owned and controlled equally by the people who use its services or by the people who work there. Various aspects regarding cooperative enterprise are the focus of study in the field of cooperative economics.

en.wikipedia.org...


Oh boy, oh boy...

A cooperative enterprise is a BUSINESS owned and operated by a few individuals for THEIR mutual benefit...

But how can anyone own anything when in socialism and communism private property is abolished?...

The STATE/government claims to represent the people owns the means of production, hence why government and corporations are tied in together IN SOCIALISM and COMMUNISM...

Originally posted by theubermensch
Just because you own a house or a small business does not make you a captalist. You are all still workers. If you own a small business and think you are not a 'worker' you are kidding yourself.

Unless you are in a 'Trust' you are a worker.

edit on 2-2-2012 by theubermensch because: (no reason given)

If you own a small business you'd be classified as petty-bourgeoisie due to your ability to appropriate surplus value from the labour of someone you've hired. This is exploitation, thus you're exploiting the toiler.

reply to post by omarm1984


Bono... not egotistical?!? O.O

And Einstein was a socialist...

It is futile to talk to people who refuse to read prior postings..... so, with that information known I refer you to my previous postings and if you should stumble across me stating something to the fact of what my Father bequeathed to my brother and I then good for you.

It is truly a blessing to have somewhere to not only go, but to build a house by the river and live off the land when TSHTF.


Toodles!

Originally posted by theubermensch
Just because you own a house or a small business does not make you a captalist. You are all still workers. If you own a small business and think you are not a 'worker' you are kidding yourself.

Unless you are in a 'Trust' you are a worker.

edit on 2-2-2012 by theubermensch because: (no reason given)

Exactly.

To be a true capitalist you have use your capital to make profit by hiring labour.

"Capitalism is the appropriation of capital by some to the exclusion of others." Louis Blanc, the first use of that term.

If you don't earn your living that way you are not a capitalist, you're a worker.

This thread is full of the petit bourgeois it seems. Too good to be called a lowly 'worker'.

reply to post by omarm1984


Bono? That prick that went on his knees for the Queen of England, that monstrosity, to be awarded some cross?
What a total humiliation. What a failure.

That guy is a joke. Do some charity and fancy stuff and get the public attention. What a hero. These people should be hurled into outer space.

Originally posted by Tsurugi


I hate to break it to you, but most first or second world countries are facing economic collapse because of public debt.

And that debt has been brought on by socialist/communist ideas.. such as central banks... The World Bank, the IMF, the Feds, etc, etc...

Originally posted by Tea4One
reply to post by omarm1984

 

Bono... not egotistical?!? O.O

And Einstein was a socialist...

this was already covered, everyone and everything is socialist, we get it. Socialism good, everything else, doesn't work, or is stupid, or kill people, or destroys something, or whatever...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Calling the IMF socialist is the siliest thing I have read on this thread.

Are you kidding???