Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism

Originally posted by L00kingGlass

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by L00kingGlass

I know what Socialism is. I can also show you what it looks like. This is the best part of town in Pyonyang:

There's a HUGE difference between socialism and authoritarian based communism.

Not really, since socialism is pretty much always authoritarian as well. How many surveillance cameras does the UK have again??

Get back to me when the UK brings in a dictator who abolishes democracy, starts setting up work camps, kills people who don't work hard enough, forces everyone to keep a picture of the dictator in every room, and all TV/radio is state approved and controlled to show only propaganda.

edit on 2-2-2012 by L00kingGlass because: (no reason given)

Your perception of what is authoritarian is a bit narrow. The UK has even more surveillance cameras than the US and is already experimenting with Nanny Cams to monitor how parents interact with their children. What was that I read here a month or two ago about the govt wanting to take obese kids away from their parents? Oh wait, you don't see that as authoritarian, you see it as interventionist(for your own good of course), which in fact is part and parcel of the very same Totalitarianism which occurred in Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. Didn't recognize it? You were just looking for Gestapo with a swastika armband weren't you?

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by L00kingGlass

I know what Socialism is. I can also show you what it looks like. This is the best part of town in Pyonyang:

There's a HUGE difference between socialism and authoritarian based communism.

Well, it's a slight difference, as we know that socialism is a bridge to communism. Socialism is communism light. Socialism is definitely a trend toward Totalitarianism, as the Nanny State begins to rule every aspect of our lives. As I said, in Cuba the govt dictates where you work. That is true from every communist state. Marx and Lenin and the CPUSA also state for the record that socialism is an intermediary between capitalism and communism.

The most accurate way to describe socialism is capitalism with collectivist elements. Yes, I suppose you can say it's a bridge to communism.

I'm not a big fan of socialism myself, it costs too much money to run. When governments aren't fiscally responsible, and the economy is dipping, it's a hindrance.

Socialism is like candy, it's alright to have a little piece once in a blue moon, but if you eat too much your teeth rot and fall out.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Didn't recognize it? You were just looking for Gestapo with a swastika armband weren't you?

Actually, I thought about it but chose not to bring it up.

reply to post by theubermensch


As I said before, if you were to live in a truly communist country you would have tried every way possible to reach the US for freedom and liberty. That is what Cubans did during their communist revolution. That is why Marco Rubio fights communism. Do you really want to be told where you can work and what you can eat?

Do you really want free health care if it looks like this?



Also a rare look at Cuba before the communist revolution there

In any given society there will always be a small number of people who will go hungry.

That is not the failure of any one given system, that is the failure of humanity

I'm also fed up with the modern day system of Capitalism, which I personally don't call capitalism, but corporatism, which I sum up in one sentence:

Using an army of lawyers to gobble up and own everything in sight out of greed and prevent anybody else from being rich.

Greed is not good.

I don't fault people for being rich.

I fault them for unfair practices.

Such as being able to get a huge $600,000 tax break. In the area I'm in I can buy my house and live on it for a good ten years on that kind of money Where's my tax break?..
Such as charging $4.00 a gallon of gas.

Such as increasing the prices of groceries just because.

And all sorts of other things.

I'm thoroughly fed up with the way the corporations are doing whatever they can to take away our money so we can't live.

However, I'm no fan of Socialism.

Because I believe in the right to own property, including wealth, and Socialism does not.

If it weren't for that I would probably be a Socialist because of how tired I am of corporatism.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by theubermensch

 

As I said before, if you were to live in a truly communist country you would have tried every way possible to reach the US for freedom and liberty. That is what Cubans did during their communist revolution. That is why Marco Rubio fights communism. Do you really want to be told where you can work and what you can eat?

Which is why all Cubans are a guaranteed conservative vote when they come to America. They know what it takes to achieve prosperity, and are grateful for it.

Originally posted by L00kingGlass

There's a HUGE difference between socialism and authoritarian based communism.

Marx taught that Socialism is the intermediate stage to Communism, a means to prepare totalitarian "perfection".

That's not far off, pal.

Can't argue with that, I know about all the camera's and big brother junk that's going on over there, and to a lesser extent here.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by L00kingGlass

There's a HUGE difference between socialism and authoritarian based communism.

Marx taught that Socialism is the intermediate stage to Communism, a means to prepare totalitarian "perfection".

I was under the impression that this was Stalinist ideology.

Capitalism is not bad. It rewards those who are into the material aspect of happiness... if that's your bag. What is bad about today's capitalism isn't a result OF capitalism. It's a more sinister greed and underhandedness that no structure of government is immune to. Capitalism today embraces unfair tactics and policies designed to cull the masses from attaining what the power players have. The power players orchestrate the game with the intent of making capitalism so distasteful in it's new unchecked form that ordinary citizens, in their reactionary thinking, will embrace socialism and eventually communism. You will become wards of the great state. Whatever you think you own (much like today) the state or banks owns. Whatever you produce the state takes, much like today. Whatever you think about the state after becoming sick of it, will be dealt with, as agreeing to be provided for is sacrificed for what you may be at liberty to think and voice. What we are grudgingly bearing today, as we speak, is the blooming of the first bud of this process so painfully slow it's almost unnoticeable. The seed was planted long ago under different auspices with catchy phrases and mission statements. We are now in the headlights, nah, more like cross-hairs.

Originally posted by L00kingGlass

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by theubermensch

 

As I said before, if you were to live in a truly communist country you would have tried every way possible to reach the US for freedom and liberty. That is what Cubans did during their communist revolution. That is why Marco Rubio fights communism. Do you really want to be told where you can work and what you can eat?

Which is why all Cubans are a guaranteed conservative vote when they come to America. They know what it takes to achieve prosperity, and are grateful for it.

Well, are they really? Why did so many give their vote to Obama instead of McCain who is soft on immigration ? It is still a mystery to me.

reply to post by Sirconspire




The socialist welfare state that has been systematically implemented over the last century has seriously decayed the true laissez-faire free enterprise.

Originally posted by L00kingGlass

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by L00kingGlass

There's a HUGE difference between socialism and authoritarian based communism.

Marx taught that Socialism is the intermediate stage to Communism, a means to prepare totalitarian "perfection".

I was under the impression that this was Stalinist ideology.

Marx and and Stalin both taught it, but the argument that Stalinism isn't real communism is just not true. Lenin was more idealistic, like Marx, while Stalin was pragmatic.

After Lenin's death in 1924, Joseph Stalin outmaneuvered his rivals to gain control of the government. Stalin was determined to transform the Soviet Union into a powerful industrial state. In 1928, therefore, he launched his first five-year plan. The plan included two goals: rapid growth of heavy industry and increased farm production through collectivization of agriculture. In a series of five-year plans, Stalin poured the nation's resources into building steel mills, electric power stations, and other industries needed in a strong modern state. He also forced millions of peasants to give up their land and work on collective farms, large, government-run enterprises. Many peasants opposed the change, and millions died in Stalin's brutal crackdown.

To achieve his goals, Stalin created a new kind of government, today called a totalitarian state. In a totalitarian state, the government is a single-party dictatorship that controls every aspect of the lives of its citizens. Individual rights count for nothing. Citizens must obey the government without question, and critics are silenced. Also, the totalitarian state supports extreme nationalism. Stalin used propaganda, censorship, and terror to force his will on the Soviet people. Government newspapers glorified work and Stalin himself. Secret police spied on citizens, and anyone who refused to praise Stalin and the state faced severe punishment, even death.

www.fresno.k12.ca.us...


See anything there that reminds you of Cuban communism? (Except for the heavy growth of industrialism, as there seems to be none in Cuba now, in fact they don't even manufacture toilet paper, and had a shortage there not so long ago)

Maybe it's just me, but holding up China, Cuba and the like as perfect examples of Socialism/Communism and the United States as a perfect example of Capitalism are both wrong aren't they?

None are pure examples. Each has been subverted in some way and I think that's why so many get hung up. You can cite all the virtues of either only to have someone easily hold up the problems with it.

On paper, they could all work, but in the real world, things are much different because people always give in to greed. Without fail and without exception. If i'm incorrect, please enlighten me.

Originally posted by Paschar0
Maybe it's just me, but holding up China, Cuba and the like as perfect examples of Socialism/Communism and the United States as a perfect example of Capitalism are both wrong aren't they?

None are pure examples. Each has been subverted in some way and I think that's why so many get hung up. You can cite all the virtues of either only to have someone easily hold up the problems with it.

On paper, they could all work, but in the real world, things are much different because people always give in to greed. Without fail and without exception. If i'm incorrect, please enlighten me.

The fact is, there will never be a true Utopian communism as it is glorified by those who want it to be so. It will always have to be enforced, which is what happened in every communist country that exists.

Originally posted by Paschar0
Maybe it's just me, but holding up China, Cuba and the like as perfect examples of Socialism/Communism and the United States as a perfect example of Capitalism are both wrong aren't they?

Thats true. Singapore would be pure Capitalism and North Korea would be purest Socialism/Communism.

The whole debate about which type of government, or even which type of "society" is best is so full of Catch-22s and double-edged swords that it usually degenerates into a "grass-is-always-greener-on-the-other-side" issue.

Academics can spend their lives arguing about it, while real-world people live it.

Case in point: I know college professors who sit on their fat, lazy asses drinking wine and lauding the merits of communism while sitting in plush surroundings. I have some Asian friends who risked their lives to escape communism. They came here and became fairly wealthy in 10-12 years by working their asses off, never taking a penny of assistance from anyone. Ask them what they think about communism. They embrace 'capitalism' simply for the fact that they had a chance.

I have to say that I agree with most of your thoughts and feelings, we live in a society where only the very rich count, a la Romney recently said right after winning Florida, he didn't worry to much about the poor, because we have a "safety net" oh, yeah where is it? Even that's good for only a certain few and that's we see so much homelessness. Poor is poor no matter who you are.
I don't agree with the extreme Occupy movement I think the Unions have there greedy little hands in with it. But yes, it would be nice to work at something your good at, not because its the only thing available. Maybe there ought to be a cap on how much wealth an individual could make and not before having to share with other charities in this country first, then help others if there is anything left. Nobody is worth 350 million or 400 million dollars or billions of dollars. I don't believe Buffet wants to tax himself, why in the world would rich people want that?
I'm not a socialist,but am not a fascist Corporations should be fair to people (no matter what race they are as long as they know the job who cares) or capitalist either per se. I don't know what I am I don't think theres a party which fits my beliefs 'This should go back to being the country where there wasn't so much poverty and need.
I do believe in work, but there are people who need the programs that's the only way they have to survive as well and the programs should not be abused! The old people should not be threatened with losing their Social Security or Medicare every two or four years, either!!

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
However, I'm no fan of Socialism.

Because I believe in the right to own property, including wealth, and Socialism does not.

If it weren't for that I would probably be a Socialist because of how tired I am of corporatism.

Well, what you described is communism. In socialism, you can still have property and wealth, no worries.
We are all tired of corporatism, welcome to the club