Heavy "Spraying"* in Phoenix Today 2-1-12

reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake



You guys love taking pictures of nothing why dont you add to your knowledge by looking up the weather data for the altitude the planes were flying at and compare with different flights at different altitudes and then compare that with how long the CONTRAILS last then you may see a correlation with what you think you see

Plenty of links on the net to get the info required lets see what you come up with thats if you dare

Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake

 

You guys love taking pictures of nothing why dont you add to your knowledge by looking up the weather data for the altitude the planes were flying at and compare with different flights at different altitudes and then compare that with how long the CONTRAILS last then you may see a correlation with what you think you see

Plenty of links on the net to get the info required lets see what you come up with thats if you dare

See my links to patents on page 4 of this thread.

Funny how ProudBird never responded to those documents... one of his buddies did though... trying to convince us all that aluminum is so naturally abundant that Monsanto had to come up with genetically modified seeds resistant to it just to be able to grow food for all of us!!! How thoughtful of them!!

yeah.. right

You guys spend so much time deflecting. You can't even make one simple connection, which proves you are all in on the game. You can all **** off. You're the enemy of everyone here who wishes to know the truth.

reply to post by wmd_2008


Did you actually read this thread, or did you just read the first post and then decide to bash it?

reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake


Well i have to agree with Network Dude, this is one of the less infuriating chemtrail threads I've read in a while, apart from a few who still can't help themselves from making baseless claims of why certain members are here.

But I digress...

I have been of the opinion for some time now that many of the pro chemtrail proponents are deliberately keeping much of the information available clouded and covered in lies and disinformation.

Things like "contrails last a short time and chemtrails don't" for example.

Some of the bigger names in chemtrail "research" still push such things, like Michael J Murphy, who was involved in the making of What In the World Are They Spraying.

Which was full of so many holes it would make a colander jealous!

But I digress again...

I bring up Murphy and his movie because of one big glaring issue I have, and I've mentioned this before, even made a thread about it...

I called it $50,000 to Make a Movie

My issue is the way this money was spent, because another thing I've been carrying on about for years is a way to prove, once and for all the existence of chemtrails and prove that they're not just contrails, I created another thread thread about that called Chemtrailers: Your time is NOW!

Not only did I dig up a baseline test for them, which was an analyse of residual particles in contrails, I also provided details of a company that has a Gulfstream designed specifically for aerial testing.

The biggest issue of conducting such a test was money...enter Murphy and is ilk who had the money, had the means and the contacts to conduct laboratory tests.

Why didn't it happen??

It frustrates me to no end that these people can come out and say that chemtrails are poisoning us and that the government is trying to kill us, yet do not take the steps needed to stop it happening.

The ability to blow the biggest conspiracy out of the water was in their hands and they chose not to do it.

What is wrong with these people??

Anyway, just adding my two cents, I've virtually stopped posting in chemtrail threads due to the continual rudeness I see in them but after reading this thread i felt compelled to reply since you seem to actually want to find the truth.

reply to post by Chadwickus


Hi Chad just a question.
Are you suggesting Murphy set out ALREADY believing that chemtrails existed ?
And not open minded as investigators should be ?

Thanks in advance ProRipp


Peace

Originally posted by Chadwickus
The ability to blow the biggest conspiracy out of the water was in their hands and they chose not to do it.

What is wrong with these people??

Because there is more money to be made in spreading lies (such as creating/perpetuating the myth that contrails cannot persist for hours) rather than finding the truth (i.e., by testing a persistent trail).

reply to post by ProRipp


I believe so yes.

He is the president of The Coalition Against Geo-Engineering.

And I vividly remember his interview on ATS live some time ago, he didn't come across as impartial or open minded at all.

But that's just my opinion.

reply to post by Chadwickus


Okay thanks for that, I did'nt see the interview or whatever.


Peace

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Fundamentally I agree, but $50k is a lot to spend on a niche market, but in the same breath it's a tiny amount as far as movie making goes too...

Just quickly doing the maths, the dvd is for sale for $36+$6 for shipping in the US, so they only need to sell less than 1200 to cover the costs of the movie.


Looking at it with that perspective it would appear it is for the money.

reply to post by Chadwickus


I think out of a scale of 100%, I would say that I think chemtrails are 55% real. In other words, 45% of doubts it, and that is because of exactly what you point out. There are a lot of people (and groups) who believe, and some groups do have the ability to find out the truth, because they have the funding, but yet it still is just a conspiracy.

I really wish someone would either prove or put an end to this. It would be so much easier to know, one way or the other, what is the real deal.

Forgot to add:

Thanks for the compliment on the civility of the post. I really want to know more about this and I appreciate both sides showing me what they believe and the sources they consider. I have learned a lot through this thread.

Originally posted by MarshMallow_Snake
I really wish someone would either prove or put an end to this. It would be so much easier to know, one way or the other, what is the real deal.

Unfortunately it's rather hard to prove something does not exist.

You could prove some DOES exist quite simply. Like unicorns - you can prove unicorns exist by simply finding one unicorn.

But not finding one unicorn does not prove they do not exist. Not finding a million unicorns does not prove they do not exit.

All we can do as unicorn debunkers is point out that A) There's no evidence that unicorns exist, and B) if they did, then probably some good evidence would have shown up by now.

But unfortunately the unicorn matter must remain technically unsettled.

reply to post by Uncinus


Right...however, we do have the ability to see these trails. And, we have the ability to test them, which could have happened and I am not aware of it. If there is data out there that shows it is just water vapor, or otherwise, then why is it not considered case closed?

Found one...

reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake

Data:
www.atmos-chem-phys-discuss.net...

As to why it is not cased closed? I suppose some people prefer no evidence to support their speculation over evidence which disputes it.

reply to post by Phage


Thanks Phage, I will take a look at this.

reply to post by HIWATT

Funny how ProudBird never responded to those documents...

On Page 4.

"those documents" are the same ones that are a backbone of the "chemtrail" pushers, have been for years....it seems that one of the grandfathers of this hoax, Will Thomas (there's his name, yet again) found the so-called "Welsbach Patent" as far back as 2004...although the patent was actually issued in 1991. Since 2004, it is repeated ad nauseum on most every "chemtrail" site out there.

There was no need to address that, nor the Monsanto patent again, as they are irrelevant, and have been mentioned dozens of times already. The two ("Welsbach") and Monsanto are NOT related -- it is the "chemtrail" proponent who try to make the non-existent connection.

It bears repeating, also, that the existence of a patent means little in terms of implementation of any idea or concept covered by such patent. There are also many. many patents in existence that are "secret", and not available to the general public for viewing. So, the "logic" of those who believe in an ongoing "chemtrailing program" escapes me, here.

Those who claim it is happening say that it is "secret", since there are no acknowledgements by any authority or agency involved. But, if that were the case, then incriminating "patents" like the one being bandied about would have been diverted to clandestine status long, long ago.

Just found this thread on lighting tricks, and he mentions contrail shadows. I saw a video where a woman saw the same shadow and claimed it was soot that was in the sky...this pretty much debunks that. Take a look at his pics, they are pretty cool, and he gives a good explanation too:

Tricks of light and shadows

reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake


I wanted to thank the OP for this thread because I was going to post the same thing. Just a little set up for the morning of 2-1-12. I got to the office located in the South Mountain area at 6. I am president of a company and always the first in and the last out. As the sun was coming up I noticed the bright sun and a clear sky. At about 7, as I was getting a file out of the cabinet, I looked out and noticed a few trails accross the blue sky. I really didn't pay much attention but I did mention it to an associate. An hour later I was putting the file back and I noticed 20-30 trails accross the sky.

I decided to drive a couple blocks to a park where I had a complete view of the sky and watch for a few minutes. I parked my car facing east and watched as several planes left contrails in kind of a geometric formation. I am less than a mile from Sky Harbor and none of the planes I watched came from Sky Harbor.

As I watched I paid close attention to the dispersion of the trails and can tell you that as I watched one plane leave a trail, it just hung in the air. He flew in an L pattern and the bottom of the L broke up fairly quickly. The top to the L began to expand and was almost solid. To the south there was an existing cloud and soon their was a plane leaving a trail just to the east of the cloud. I now counted 25 planes at one time leaving trails from north to south and from east to west in a grid pattern.

The L trail was really expanding now and was 20-30 times larger than when I first saw it. Again, none of the planes were takeoffs from Sky Harbor but they could have come from either Luke or the other base down by Tucson.

I had spent almost an hour watching and I knew I had to get back to the office. The sky was beginning to have the "high cloud" effect. I got back to the office and I commented to my associate what I had seen and we both just kind of let it go and went on with our day.

After lunch we noticed that the clear sky had become almost over cast by 2 in the afternoon. There were no more planes in the sky but the high clouds persisted.

Now I have to say I was not even concerned about being sprayed with any sort of chemical but I had recalled a comment my secretary had said a week or so before this. She mentioned one morning that she thought the sun coming through our window seemed very bright compared to the past. I guess I looked and thought it looked somewhat brighter but I really didn't think anything of it. When I was outside that afternoon on the 1st, it was a very nice day with the temp about 75. The clouds were protecting from the sun so it would have been a perfect day for golf if I had the time.

The next day, there were no trails at all and the sky was blue and beautiful. It occurred to me that maybe what I had witnessed on the 1st was not something that would harm us, but something that would protect us. That day as I sat in my car and watched the planes build these clouds, the day became very pleasant. Phoenix can be brutal when it comes to the sun and you can get fried in a short time if you don't have a hat and sunscreen.

Could it be that scientist know that we are in for some incredibly powerful radiation from the sun in the next couple years and by putting a barrier between the UV and ground they can deflect the associated issues with too much sun? Could I have simply witness a dry run? I moved my company to Arizona a year ago and before that I was in South Florida and I had noticed the trails staying in the air for hours as I drove back and forth accross I-75 on alligator alley. The possibility makes more sense than something that would harm almost everything in that vapor falling from the sky could not be selective on what it landed on.

I may be way off base but perhaps there are other reasons for the Chemtrails.

reply to post by RADAST


Hi RADAST - thanks for joining in! I was hoping to see more locals in this thread.

I pointed out on one of the earlier pages that I thought the spraying is for either the killing of Bees, to reduce pollination and then the destruction of crops that require this pollination, or the same conclusion that you came to. The latter sounds better because it is not a malicious plot, and I would like to believe that more than any other possible scenario. So, great thinking on your part.



I have noticed these trails when I lived in Massachusetts too (back then I did not know about ATS or a conspiracy), and there are always reports of cold areas and warm areas getting them...so if there is a reason besides water vapor behind them, who knows what it is and what they are for.

Anyway, again, thank you for contributing. Welcome to the Valley, as you are relatively new here. I have been here 5 years, almost six.

Originally posted by RADAST
The L trail was really expanding now and was 20-30 times larger than when I first saw it. Again, none of the planes were takeoffs from Sky Harbor but they could have come from either Luke or the other base down by Tucson.

I had spent almost an hour watching and I knew I had to get back to the office. The sky was beginning to have the "high cloud" effect. I got back to the office and I commented to my associate what I had seen and we both just kind of let it go and went on with our day.

After lunch we noticed that the clear sky had become almost over cast by 2 in the afternoon. There were no more planes in the sky but the high clouds persisted.

You have to keep in mind that this type of occurrence has been observed (increasingly) for at least 40 years. It's more common in some areas than others, and at particular times of year. It varies with the weather.

Here's a discussion from 1969, with photos.

The spreading of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent contrails exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.
[....]
Contrail development and spreading begins in the morning hours with the start of heavy jet traffic and may extend from horizon to horizon as the air traffic peaks. Fig. 1 is a typical example of midmorning contrails that occured on 17 December 1969 northwest of Boulder. By midafternoon, sky conditions had developed into those shown in Fig. 2 an almost solid contrail sheet reported to average 500 m in depth.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c8743b016717.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fa154f034865.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Uncinus


This proves that the phenomenon has been around for a while. Now, playing Devil's advocate...what if the spraying is real, and they have been doing so all along?

Point being...we can debate this all day, but the two sides are never going to agree on what is real .