The book of Hebrews... truly divinely inspired?

reply to post by sacgamer25


I like the way you think my friend... unfortunatly i don't believe your ideas comply with scripture... Posting some that corresponds with what you write would be nice...

Even though Christ did not think it necessary to be equal to God, as far as creation is concerned God has made him equal.

That is not what it says...

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God

And as far as creation is concerned, if God made him equal... he would have been able to prevent his own execution... but he could only submit to his fathers will, even after asking... dare i say begging.

Personally I prefer this interpretation: Philippians 2:6 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Of course, because it suits your agenda...

I'll stick with the good old KJV... thanks

Paul also kept the company of sinners.

Proof?

Anyone who does not repent for his sins cannot be filled with the Holy Spirit, because if they are they are committing the one unforgiveable sin blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

How is that possible when we are "forgiven" at birth as you say? Whats the point of repentance if we are already forgiven?

I could also say that I became a teacher through the Gospel, but that would go against, no one should be called teacher. I believe that you are taking this verse to literally.

You could call yourself a doctor as well, it doesn't make it true... does it...

Who calls you teacher? You are a "self proclaimed" teacher... as you just stated

If I say I have become your father or your teacher, it is not truly I but the Holy Spirit that is at work through me.

I would call you a liar if you said such things to me, because you have yet to teach me anything... True teachers don't need to tell others "they are teachers" as you do... people come to them for answers.

Paul explains that all Scripture is from the Holy Spirit, which I know you disagree with also. But if you put the 2 points together, Paul is giving credit to the Holy Spirit for the Gospel which he is preaching. So he has become their father in the since that the Holy Spirit chose him to bring the good news.

Yes paul loved to give himself credit he did not deserve...

The holy spirit is inspireing me to give you good news... paul is a fraud...

I see no discrepancy as I myself think that I am to be a teacher and translator of the New Testament

If no one had the authority to spread the good news than who was going to do it for the first 1500 years before the bible was printed?

Likely no one?

You can make the claim that Paul did not have the authority, although I disagree with you. I too believe that I have the authority to build up my brothers, but not to pull them down. Many of those who call themselves Christians do not follow Christ, who then should be the authority to correct them if not fellow believers. All believers have the authority to build up and correct their brothers.

They also have the authority to lead them astray...

You have completely missed the point of the entire message that Paul is teaching,

I disagree...

Grace is a gift given freely so no man can boast. This is what Jesus and Paul are saying

Incorrect... paul told others he would not boast... of anything but the cross... yet he happily boasts right here...

16 I repeat: Let no one take me for a fool. But if you do, then tolerate me just as you would a fool, so that I may do a little boasting. 17 In this self-confident boasting I am not talking as the Lord would, but as a fool. 18 Since many are boasting in the way the world does, I too will boast.

yet...

"But may it never be for me to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus the Messiah, by whom the world is crucified to me, and I to the world." (Galatians 6:14)

He is a liar... and this can be shown in many cases...

Paul is not saying that you shouldn’t do good he is simply saying that you should not boast, because the gift of Grace you were given is apart from works. This does agree with Christ.

Unfortunatly he does not comply with Christ... he makes his own rules and breaks them at his own discression. At least according to his own writing... i can't say i knew him personally though...

You are right we can do this all day, but you are wrong you cannot win. You may not agree with me but I will show you that thier is a way to understand Paul that agrees with Christ

Well, yet again i disagree with you...

Yes you can give your own inturpretation of what he said, but unfortunatly what you say, is not how it reads....

But believe what you will

O.k guys... I'm starting to dig it a little more. Thanks alot everybody for helping me out! Please excuse my ignorance... I'm really just trying to find out what God wants from my life. Don't know who all prayed for me, but I think the seeds yall planted are starting to take root.

Of course, I'm only a baby in Christ so I'll have many more questions for you true troopers in Christ.
Again thanks for shedding some light, and sorry for helping to confuse the masses.

For sac though, one thing Paul says that contradicts Jesus... I can't find the verse, but he says some thing like... For I try to look good in the sight of all men, for that is pleasing to God.

What did God say? "Woe to you when all men speak well of you."

You also never addressed my other contradictions in teachings that I specifically asked you to address... but it's cool everything else helped. O.k. time to tell a story in another thread.

reply to post by atotheb

. . . Woe to you when all men speak well of you . . .

That is Luke who gets into the theological disputes within Judaism where the other Gospels don't.
So he means things like the debates between rabbinical scholars and their use of rhetoric and to win arguments based on how you present yourself, over the actual substance of the case you are presenting.

reply to post by sacgamer25

. . . Paul explains that all Scripture is from the Holy Spirit . . .

No, that was someone else who wrote that and then made his writing a forgery by making it look like Paul had written it.
I basically shut down the thread on the infallibility of the Bible by asking the OP if all Cretans are liars and lazy and generally evil. He thought of course that can't be true. Then I told him it is in Titus. Either Titus is a forgery and does not deserve the designation scripture, or scripture is not infallible.
Another case would be: is it OK to withhold testimony which would exonerate a person accused of a crime because you really want that person dead and to give his job to one of your friends? If the Book of Esther should be designated scripture, then it would have to be acceptable behavior, or scripture is not infallible. My choice would be that certain books were wrongly designated scripture.

reply to post by sacgamer25

. . . as far as creation is concerned God has made him equal.

Are you suggesting that God created His son?
That would be a Jehovah's Witness' belief.
The "orthodox" doctrine of the Trinity has them co-eternal and of the same "substance", for lack of a better term.
Not that I feel especially compelled to be orthodox, having been brought up with a rather Arian outlook on the father-son relationship within the godhead.
My personal view is that Anankē created the universe which included the gods, meaning anything of a spiritual nature and being actual distinct persons but not dependent on material things for for their existence, such as physical bodies like what we have.
I would seriously recommend to anyone interested in God, read the PDF I was quoting from a couple days ago which was a theses by Birgitta Elweskjold on John Philoponus and the creation of the world. Just use that as the search term on Google and it should come up but I don't want to post the link because it would take up three lines, it's that long.

Originally posted by atotheb
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father... I and the Father are one..." And he also thanks God for revealing his name, "the name you gave me," and then, "In that day you will ask in My name. I'm not saying I will ask the Father on your behalf." Where does that come from... your kidding me. Starting with John 14:5, what I think is chief importance on Jesus identity... If you only believe that he is who he shows he is.

About the deity of Jesus.

There is a reason for the Father, son and Holy Spirit. Some people fear the father because they do wrong. And they should fear the father. So for some they cannot come to the father without a separate relationship to the son. In this case it is better for that person to see the son as the brother that laid his life down for you so that you may return home to the father.

For others it is easy to understand that God is love. For those who can accept this they can see the three as one. In this case the fullness of God dwells in the Son meaning God and the Son are one.

Personally I don’t think it matters how one views this relationship as long as they live a life pleasing to the father.

What do I believe? God is love, the same type of love that I have for my child.

I love her unconditionally
She was born forgiven; she could do nothing that would cause me to stop loving her.
I give her free will to be who she is and to make mistakes, and she can always come home.
I get jealous when she chooses her friends over me.
I get angry when others convince her to do something wrong.
I punish her when she does the things that are bad for her.
I instruct her in the ways of this world and the ways of God.
I would lay down my life to save hers.

If I can be all these things and I am just a man then God to can be all these things, because I was made in his image. The difference between me and God is he is only love so every emotion that is his comes from love. I can hate because I hate. I can be jealous because I am jealous. I can become angry for I anger. I can punish out of my anger. God does none of these for he does everything out of love for those he calls his children.

Whatever you need to believe to know that God wants to call you his child is what you should believe. The deity of Christ should not be a point of division of the church. The church being the wholeness of all believers who make up the body of Christ.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Your eyes;
" the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world."

Literal Young's Greek Translation
through which to me the world hath been crucified, and I to the world;"

What??? My quote is from the bible.

" if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you PUT UP WITH IT easily enough." ... including the people who followed Jesus while he was here...

18Since many are boasting in the way the world does, I too will boast. 19You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise! "
Would Jesus act a certain way because the world does?

"Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him."