China Came Darn Close to Beating Columbus to the New World. Could the First President Have Been Chin

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
So whats the conspiracy theory here?

Trying to figure out why the Ming dynasty first built the world's largest naval fleet, then burned it to the water line back in the fifteenth century.

And how close it came to China having colonized the New World before the European powers, etc.

And if China is taking up where it left off in the economic colonization of America during the twenty first century, etc.

The 1421/91 author (whose name I cannot remember) is dogged by issues ranging from the accuracy of his 'facts' when used to support his theory, to even his naval career and experience - there is/was a site documenting the problems in data and procedure with the first book; I was reading it as part of a point/counter-point session on the pre-Columbian contacts as-yet 'unofficial' when I found a part of their republication of the author's service history contained an error that as a RN semi-buff was clearly a mistake. I did some digging and found the original source, saw that it had survived various publishings and chances for correction, and so wrote in to this site to explain it. They weren't at all "thank you thank you more ammo against the kook" about it - in fact they made me come back to them with MY sources to prove I hadn't lied or fiddled with the truth. I don't know what became of that (other than a Thank You I heard and thought no more of it) but if the site still exists maybe it's there still...

Originally posted by tonycliffs
reply to post by FugitiveSoul

 

Someone sent me an email about a discover of pyramids at least seven thousand years old found on the ocean's floor.

I'll have to go look for it next time I'm in my email.

Speaking of Egypt, apparently the great pyramid building epoch of Egyptian Pharaohs came to an end 4200 years ago because of a massive drought the dried up the Nile Delta region. Starving Egyptians resorted to cannablism.

Oh, well....pass the salt?

I didn't have to go to my email to find the story. Someone posted it here.

A Gigantic Pyramid on Ocean Sea Floor in Bermuda Triangle?, page 1

Originally posted by tonycliffs
reply to post by FugitiveSoul

 

Someone sent me an email about a discover of pyramids at least seven thousand years old found on the ocean's floor.

I'll have to go look for it next time I'm in my email.

Speaking of Egypt, apparently the great pyramid building epoch of Egyptian Pharaohs came to an end 4200 years ago because of a massive drought the dried up the Nile Delta region. Starving Egyptians resorted to cannablism.

Oh, well....pass the salt?

I think I read something about that submerged pyramid as well, though I can't recall much else about it. Your mentioning the email is what reminded me of it. I've also heard about the drought in Egypt. Something about the Sphinx first existing in a forest or jungle originally? I'm a bit fuzzy as to the full details, but if my memory serves me, the drought may have been influenced by both natural and manmade causes. As the pyramids were going up, more and more timbers were needed for scaffolding and tools, and for fires, and they basically deforested the region completely in a matter of years, which caused everything to dry up as more sun was reaching the ground, increasing evaporation in the soul, that coupled with a natural dry season hit the area hard, essentially turning the region to desert.

Originally posted by Kolya
The 1421/91 author (whose name I cannot remember) is dogged by issues ranging from the accuracy of his 'facts' when used to support his theory, to even his naval career and experience - there is/was a site documenting the problems in data and procedure with the first book; I was reading it as part of a point/counter-point session on the pre-Columbian contacts as-yet 'unofficial' when I found a part of their republication of the author's service history contained an error that as a RN semi-buff was clearly a mistake. I did some digging and found the original source, saw that it had survived various publishings and chances for correction, and so wrote in to this site to explain it. They weren't at all "thank you thank you more ammo against the kook" about it - in fact they made me come back to them with MY sources to prove I hadn't lied or fiddled with the truth. I don't know what became of that (other than a Thank You I heard and thought no more of it) but if the site still exists maybe it's there still...

The author's name is Charle C. Mann.

Though this is not the original intent of this posting about the potential Chinese colonization of the New World, it is interesting speculation.

And what did happen to the Mayans who disappeared into the jungles?

And had Zheng He began colonization in the New World before his untimely death in 1433, would the Ming dynasty have continued said colonization once they realized how much gold they could bring back?

reply to post by FugitiveSoul


According to geologists and the like, there was a massive drought in Ethiopia some 4200 years ago.

The source of the Nile dried up and the annual flooding stopped.

The Nile Delta area's farmland dried up. There was mass starvation.

This massive drought also affected the Mideast and other regions. And had a lot in common with the Shara's decline from a rain forest to the world's largest desert.

That ended the Great Pyramid building era of Egypt, and the people began to believe that their God Pharaoh could not always protect them. After that, the Pharaoh was considered less of a God. And then we get into the Middle Kingdom period of Egyptian history.

reply to post by tonycliffs


Just one question, why would the first president have been chinese?

The first president wasnt a viking

The first president wasnt a Spaniard.........

Both of whom discovered this area before the our current ancestors....

Originally posted by tonycliffs

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
I'm still dumbfounded as to why Columbus gets any credit for the "discovery" of the New World.
Leif Ericson did it 492 years earlier.

[eta]
reply to post by Wildmanimal

 

Ahhh... I got side tracked watching PawnStars and you beat me to it.

edit on 30-1-2012 by FugitiveSoul because: (no reason given)

Leif Ericson obviously did not have a very good celebrity agent.

Probably too busy plaiting his beard to care.

Well, most of us who studied Chinese history at some point in time actually know about Zheng He.

His story was kind of funny...

This historical person also spun up some very interesting Martial Arts, Kung Fu fiction writings.

But yeah, on to the funny parts.

Legend has it, that Zheng He actually was sort of forced to leave. The funny story goes that the Eunuch Zheng He was falling in love with the Emperor, so therefore he had to be sent away.

In ancient China, the Emperors had a lot of Eunuchs serving beside them. So that the Emperors can keep their dragon penis in their pants, as to not screwing every maid he comes across. After all, if the Emperor seeds a woman, then the baby will be considered royalty and will have position/power and perhaps a chance at the throne in the future.

So the story goes that Zheng He was sent on the expedition by the Emperor. The reason for the rumors and stories about Zheng He was that it was a very awkward move by the Emperor.

You can't help but ask why the Emperor would ever want to send an "EUNUCH" to lead a harsh expedition to explore the world. Normally, you would send battle hardened Generals with long experiences in the ocean. But no, he sends a girly man to go conquer the world...

According to history, Zheng He wasn't really a military genius of any kind, nor does he have any real historical military battles that proves his might.

What could be the reason behind the Emperor's decision then?

It is commonly said that perhaps Zheng He was gaining a lot of political support at the time and his power and influence is growing out of hand. So the Emperor had to sent him away so he can reclaim his power over the kingdom.

But that's kind of a boring explanation or assumption.

The funny part is that people also suspected that Zheng He could have been an extremely powerful Martial Artist. His Kung Fu... is very strong...

In a very popular series of Wu Xia novels written by the famous Chinese scholar "Jin Yong", one of the most powerful martial art that existed in one of his fictional novel was said to have been created by an "Eunuch" of the same exact era as Zheng He...

So, to make life interesting and this story a lot less bland, a lot of Chinese young folks suspect that the Eunuch Zheng He was falling madly in love with the Emperor and Zheng He's Kung Fu was really really strong.

The Emperor had no choice but to send him away. Because the damn Eunuch probably want to polish the dragon pole on a daily basis and the Emperor simply cannot stand it. He can't really have Zheng He killed without a good reason, he can't assassinate Zheng He because the Eunuch was probably the most powerful Martial Artist during that era, for all we know Zheng He could probably kill the Emperor in a blink of an eye. On top of that, due to his high position as Eunuch, he is close to the Emperor and gets to see him up close in person quite often.

We like to think that the Emperor couldn't deal with this mad Liberace Kung Fu Master, so he sent his ass on a long journey, hoping that the flamboyant dude never make it back alive....

reply to post by tonycliffs


Sound more like an action than a conspiracy. If the guy in charge decided to burn down the fleet then thats just a decision unless you are suggesting that he conspired with someone for some reason to do with not discovering America?

I just dont understand the angle you are coming from because i dont see any evidence of a conspiracy.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by tonycliffs

 

Just one question, why would the first president have been chinese?

The first president wasnt a viking

The first president wasnt a Spaniard.........

Both of whom discovered this area before the our current ancestors....

The speculation is that with China having the largest fleet in the world at the time, had China chosen to colonized the New World, it's not unlikely the first president would have been Chinese...

..if there had been a first president.

Because there wouldn't have been a Thomas Jefferson or a Ben Franklin and so forth.

And this country wouldn't have been named America.

And Mexico would have another name.

But...the emperor burned the fleet and chose not to colonize the New World.

reply to post by truthseeker84


"So, to make life interesting and this story a lot less bland, a lot of Chinese young folks suspect that the Eunuch Zheng He was falling madly in love with the Emperor and Zheng He's Kung Fu was really really strong."

All that you said is as good an explanation as I expected to hear.

After Zeng He's death, the fleet was burned to further erase the memory of Zeng He?

Sure. All that political correctness stuff in the fifteenth century possibly kept China from colonizing the New World.

That was good stuff. Thanks for contributing.

I could add without hesitation that your Kung Fu is strong.