Ancient Walled City, Older than Egypt's Pyramids, Unearthed off US Georgia Coast

reply to post by Hanslune
Those are Troll figures, You have to find the Yooper figures. I remember many years ago a guy named felix robbed a bank with an empty shotgun because they didn't let him in the county Jail for the winter. He was one of their regulars. He went to prison, he screwed up. We're not the same as downstate.

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Those are Troll figures, You have to find the Yooper figures. We're not the same as downstate.

What is a Yooper figure? Why would you call facts 'troll figures'?

Are you stating that crime figures for a place like Detroit, downstate, are throwing off the numbers for you guys up north?

Originally posted by Parta
reply to post by Harte

 

which does your mathematical mind like more. a big boat filled with animals you'll never find or a big cowpen that you can take a vacation in their thermal radioactive mud and oil baths? science always wanted proof of religion

I don' think the last part is true. At least, not the "always."

You and I and others well know that both of your suggestions are pretty baseless.

But, if I have to choose, I guess I'll take the cowpen! LOL

Originally posted by Partai don't believe anyone is hiding it any more than you. i believe hundreds of years ago they were responding to local and historical threats and thought they were removing the symbols of a much more recent angry minority and noone ever got back there till now.

edit on 3-2-2012 by Parta because: (no reason given)

I know you don't believe in the "Big Conspiracy" about our history being somehow "hidden" from us.

However, the poster I was responding to when I mentioned that had asserted exactly such a thing.

Parta, you should start a thread on your ideas on the reality of Atlantis. I've seen you make the opposing argument whenever people here try to rule out Plato's story as pure allegory. But I've never seen you post exactly how it is you believe your location links to Plato's life (or lives of Egyptians - if you think Solon actually got the tale there.)

I'd like to see your connection between your flooded plain and the place in the story Plato wrote, which I consider a complete fabrication and not in the least related to even a shred of mythology aavailable to Plato in his time.

I've acknowledged that you do know your stuff. Why aren't you posting it, or have I just missed it?

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Schoch "I have come to the conclusion that the structure commonly known as the Great Sphinx was built in stages (originally it may not have even been a Sphinx). Initial carving of the core body of the Sphinx is estimated to have taken place during the period of approximately 7,000 to 5,000 B.C. The Sphinx has subsequently been reworked and refurbished many times over the succeeding millennia -- including, probably, during the reign of Khafre. In particular, the rump or rear of the Sphinx was carved out or recarved much later than the core body, and the head of the Sphinx has been recarved." do I need to give the link too?

Have you given any thought to how long it takes to carve 2 million 200 ton blocks of stone with copper saws? How long did it take to build the pyramids at Giza? Isn't the official time line like a hundred years or so? That means they cut one stone every 8 min. Or is it 8 secs? I'm terrible at math. Where IS Hawas these days?

Originally posted by bottleslingguy


Schoch "I have come to the conclusion that the structure commonly known as the Great Sphinx was built in stages (originally it may not have even been a Sphinx). Initial carving of the core body of the Sphinx is estimated to have taken place during the period of approximately 7,000 to 5,000 B.C. The Sphinx has subsequently been reworked and refurbished many times over the succeeding millennia -- including, probably, during the reign of Khafre. In particular, the rump or rear of the Sphinx was carved out or recarved much later than the core body, and the head of the Sphinx has been recarved." do I need to give the link too?

So why is the opinion of one geologist more important that all the rest?

Have you given any thought to how long it takes to carve 2 million 200 ton blocks of stone with copper saws?

Yes and I happen to know that there weren't 2 million 200 ton blocks. There could be up to 2 1/2 million blocks down to 900,000 - estimates vary depending on how much rubble, sand and the % accepted for the limestone outcrop which was incorporated into the pyramid comprizes. The AVERAGE weight of stone was about 2.5 tons. Much much less thatn 1/10 of percent of the stone were 200 tons or larger and they granite. Granite was split off and not cut with saws, the limestone was bashed out with stone or split off. occassional pieces were adjusted by saws.

Image of the one of the limestone quarries at Giza



Photograph taken I believe after the quarries were cleared of rubble

How long did it take to build the pyramids at Giza? Isn't the official time line like a hundred years or so? That means they cut one stone every 8 min. Or is it 8 secs? I'm terrible at math. Where IS Hawas these days?

Again estimates vary from 20 years plus - there is a good chance the pyramids were never finished; there is evidence for that in Menkauries - the older stones not being finished. So your math is way off.

One of my own theories is that they started cutting stones years before they began construction - they knew a new pharaoh would be on the way and he would die - stockpile those rocks

Hawass is gone you'll have to blame the new guy

reply to post by bottleslingguy


If you're fond of Schoch, you should read what he says about Yonaguni.

Pay particular attention to how he goes on about vertical fracturing in sedimentary stone causing the natural 90 deg, angles there.

Do you have some reason to believe this can't happen in the limestone bedrock at Giza?

The squared-off stones you see on the outside of the pyramid came out of the quarry already pretty much shaped that way - all due to how limestone fractures.

On the inside, in places behind the walls that we only know about because buffoons blew them open almost 200 years ago with gunpowder, it's plain to see the structure is a hodgepoge of larg(ish) to football-sized stones all mortared together.

Sure, lining the walls of corridors, there is stone that is really impressive. And, true, there are some really big stones - limestone and granite - in the GP. But right behind that? Voids full of sand and waste mortar followed by piled-up and mortared together common stones.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte


I don' think the last part is true. At least, not the "always."

usually or as a rule would work for me

Originally posted by Harte
You and I and others well know that both of your suggestions are pretty baseless.

But, if I have to choose, I guess I'll take the cowpen! LOL

i can't really see what you are basing your opinion on. it seems that i know the literature and you don't, i know the most recent archaeology and you don't, i know geography you don't and in fact no author on atlantis ever did. i know the artifacts that no western scientist or author on atlantis had ever seen. who is baseless here?

Originally posted by Harte

I know you don't believe in the "Big Conspiracy" about our history being somehow "hidden" from us.

However, the poster I was responding to when I mentioned that had asserted exactly such a thing.

Parta, you should start a thread on your ideas on the reality of Atlantis. I've seen you make the opposing argument whenever people here try to rule out Plato's story as pure allegory. But I've never seen you post exactly how it is you believe your location links to Plato's life (or lives of Egyptians - if you think Solon actually got the tale there.)

I'd like to see your connection between your flooded plain and the place in the story Plato wrote, which I consider a complete fabrication and not in the least related to even a shred of mythology aavailable to Plato in his time.

I've acknowledged that you do know your stuff. Why aren't you posting it, or have I just missed it?

Harte

i think the terms of service deny me the opportunity to post it don't they? the bit about posting someone elses work? i can post pics that came off of google that are not his but show it. you can see it in the middle of that sea that noone in the world knew existed. the other structures that should be there aren't a problem.

i'm just saying don't be so hasty. i think there's only been one omniscient one.

reply to post by LostWorldsORG


I found LostWorlds.org very interesting...and started a thread that got tagged...in a bad way...What's up with that?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Parta

Originally posted by Harte

I don' think the last part is true. At least, not the "always."

usually or as a rule would work for me

Originally posted by Harte
You and I and others well know that both of your suggestions are pretty baseless.

But, if I have to choose, I guess I'll take the cowpen! LOL

i can't really see what you are basing your opinion on. it seems that i know the literature and you don't, i know the most recent archaeology and you don't, i know geography you don't and in fact no author on atlantis ever did. i know the artifacts that no western scientist or author on atlantis had ever seen. who is baseless here?

It seems to me that you don't know science, if you think science strives to prove or disprove any religion or particular religious belief.

What it seems that you do "know" appears to the rest of us to be your very own (and yours alone) interpretation of Yima's making the Earth grow three times, which you take to mean, apparently, dig and fill a canal around some city not mentioned in the text.

Originally posted by Partai think the terms of service deny me the opportunity to post it don't they? the bit about posting someone elses work? i can post pics that came off of google that are not his but show it. you can see it in the middle of that sea that noone in the world knew existed. the other structures that should be there aren't a problem.

Typical.

You can't connect it to Plato so you blame it on the T&C?

I asked for your opinion, and you chicken out?

Harte

i'm just saying don't be so hasty. i think there's only been one omniscient one.

Originally posted by Harte


You can't connect it to Plato so you blame it on the T&C?

I asked for your opinion, and you chicken out?

Harte

i'm just saying don't be so hasty. i think there's only been one omniscient one.

as i said i'm connecting it to yima not plato. plato is just for fun.

are you saying my opinion has not been expressed? what part haven't i expressed. did you catch the part about the new sea? and the big unique round concentric geological formation in it? did you catch the part about troy? did you catch the part about the pen of geryon? did you catch the bit about the atlantean black topped pottery in egypt? and the idols etc? the only thing i haven't expressed is the google pics i think.

i'm not hiding. i can't start a topic saying "here is atlantis". that is someone elses work and as far as i can tell it isn't published. isn't that what you're suggesting i do?

i've made the newspapers by being a little hasty but its worked out well in the end. i'm simply reporting news you'll hear about just like iarcuri. don't you like your news hasty?

ps. nobodys working to prove any religion but if it did, isn't zoroastrism the best one? all of them in the world can get together for a party at a denys

Originally posted by Parta

Originally posted by Harte


You can't connect it to Plato so you blame it on the T&C?

I asked for your opinion, and you chicken out?

Harte

as i said i'm connecting it to yima not plato. plato is just for fun.

are you saying my opinion has not been expressed? what part haven't i expressed. did you catch the part about the new sea? and the big unique round concentric geological formation in it? did you catch the part about troy? did you catch the part about the pen of geryon? did you catch the bit about the atlantean black topped pottery in egypt? and the idols etc? the only thing i haven't expressed is the google pics i think.

So, you don't mean that Plato was writing about a real place? Or that Plato's allegorical tale was based on some real place?

You're just pointing out what you think is a place that is merely similar to one piece of Plato's description, and not claiming anything else about it?

If so, how is it connected with "Atlantis" at all?

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

So, you don't mean that Plato was writing about a real place? Or that Plato's allegorical tale was based on some real place?

You're just pointing out what you think is a place that is merely similar to one piece of Plato's description, and not claiming anything else about it?

If so, how is it connected with "Atlantis" at all?

Harte

i believe the vendidad is true. i believe plato read a popular book of his time created by the enemy of his state and egypt and tried to write something that wasn't an obvious ripoff. maybe it was solon. the book was probably around in his time too. there is however in egypt ra and his 7ish hidden circles in lake neserser that flooded and enki has his 7 bolts in the abzu that flooded too so as hans says, its a mutt technically but not really.

since there are canals and gridded farmland and it was flooded and there is a pen etc etc it would be hard not to see atlantis in it.

Originally posted by Parta

i believe plato read a popular book of his time created by the enemy of his state

It is your belief that this part of the book was published as a popular book?

That concept didn't exist at that time. Who would have translated it? Who would have spent the time to copy by hand x copies?

Is there any mention by any Greek of such a scroll?

When was this material written down by the Persians?

there is however in egypt ra and his 7ish hidden circles in lake neserser that flooded and enki has his 7 bolts in the abzu that flooded too so as hans says, its a mutt technically but not really.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are saying here?

since there are canals and gridded farmland and it was flooded and there is a pen etc etc it would be hard not to see atlantis in it.

You would need a great deal of imagination to place Plato's story of a land outside the pillars of Hercules that did what he said it did where you think it is. You need hard archaeological proof, which given the size of Plato's Atlantis should be easy to find........

Originally posted by Hanslune


It is your belief that this part of the book was published as a popular book?

That concept didn't exist at that time. Who would have translated it? Who would have spent the time to copy by hand x copies?

Is there any mention by any Greek of such a scroll?

When was this material written down by the Persians?

its the holy book of the persian empire. it was popular. around platos time there were a number of people in greece plagiarizing it. didn't you read that?

Originally posted by Hanslune

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are saying here?

thats stunning.

Originally posted by Hanslune

You would need a great deal of imagination to place Plato's story of a land outside the pillars of Hercules that did what he said it did where you think it is. You need hard archaeological proof, which given the size of Plato's Atlantis should be easy to find........

i would say the point was to prove that these are manmade structures built on a scale and and at a date that would be indicative. the fact that there are circles and canals and gridded farmland and the pen and black topped pottery etc might naturally lead imaginations where they go.

reply to post by predator0187


Has anyone thought about checking native american lore to see if this is mentioned some where ? Obviously I skipped over a lot of the thread. Sorry.

Originally posted by Parta

its the holy book of the persian empire. it was popular. around platos time there were a number of people in greece plagiarizing it. didn't you read that?

Show evidence of the Greeks reading that book by name, please

thats stunning.

yes it is stunning that you wrote that, now are you going to explain it or shall we just cast it away?

i would say the point was to prove that these are manmade structures built on a scale and and at a date that would be indicative. the fact that there are circles and canals and gridded farmland and the pen and black topped pottery etc might naturally lead imaginations where they go.

Parta your 'imagination' doesn't equal facts nor evidence

Originally posted by Hanslune

Show evidence of the Greeks reading that book by name, please

show evidence that the greeks read zoroaster? are you for real? what does wiki on zoroaster say? greeks plagiaring him? if they are in general then its logical to me that yima would not be exempt. its the foundation story after all. its my opinion. yours will always be the opposite but so what. wasting time.

Originally posted by Hanslune

yes it is stunning that you wrote that, now are you going to explain it or shall we just cast it away?

and who are you again? demanding what of me? you really mean you've never heard of the hidden circles of ra? and enkis bolts? really? harte? thought you were all experts.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Parta your 'imagination' doesn't equal facts nor evidence

what facts and evidence are you quoting here exactly? lets see your links. quote me a scientist that knew there was a sea there just to start. if you can do then quote me one that knew there was the geological structure in the middle of but it wasn't anything. i know one that says there is and he's the man in his country that would know that..

Originally posted by Parta

show evidence that the greeks read zoroaster? are you for real? what does wiki on zoroaster say? greeks plagiaring him? if they are in general then its logical to me that yima would not be exempt. its the foundation story after all. its my opinion. yours will always be the opposite but so what. wasting time.

Yes it would appear you are

Most importantly however, was their picture of Zoroaster as the sorcerer-astrologer non-plus-ultra, and indeed as the "inventor" of both magic and astrology. Deriving from that image, and reinforcing it, was a "mass of literature" attributed to him and that circulated the Mediterranean world from the 3rd century BCE to the end of antiquity and beyond. "The Greeks considered the best wisdom to be exotic wisdom" and "what better and more convenient authority than the distant—temporally and geographically—Zoroaster

Wiki

When did Plato live? Could Plato have heard about Zoro? Yes, Could he have heard the stories, Yes but then we don't know for certain, did he put these ideas in his story? Unknown

But you seem to think its proven that he did - please show evidence for that please....to help you out the answer is its speculation. You seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between speculation and fact.

and who are you again? demanding what of me? you really mean you've never heard of the hidden circles of ra? and enkis bolts? really? harte? thought you were all experts.

Who am I - I'm the guy who by asking questions and requesting evidence demolished your speculation on Atlantis being in central Europe.

Demanding of you? Yes the evidence to support your assertions, rather standard faire for the scientific method -you should read up about that I think. No, I heard about them but due to your sentence structure spelling I didn't understand why you were making the comment - when I don't understand something I ask questions, remember Parta you wrote a bunch of poorly spelled gibberish and I asked you to explain it . I'm sorry that deeply disturbes you. Well we don't claim to be experts in this obscure subject but you constantly state that we do. We are not and I can say with completely certainty that you are no expert in the matter either, lol

what facts and evidence are you quoting here exactly? lets see your links. quote me a scientist that knew there was a sea there just to start. if you can do then quote me one that knew there was the geological structure in the middle of but it wasn't anything. i know one that says there is and he's the man in his country that would know that..

All that stuff you threw out about Atlantis being in central Europe- you've been doing it for five years - have you forgotten?

quote me a scientist that knew there was a sea there just to start

That is your claim so you can provide the evidence, but I have to ask what exactly is it you are claiming and what is the point? What does this have to do with your theory about Atlantis being in central Europe?

Originally posted by Hanslune


Yes it would appear you are

yes a 2 second trip to wiki and one would see i'm correct. but before that how many times have you yourself said the tale might be jumbled together from many sources. just looking for a fight?

Originally posted by Hanslune
When did Plato live? Could Plato have heard about Zoro? Yes, Could he have heard the stories, Yes but then we don't know for certain, did he put these ideas in his story? Unknown

But you seem to think its proven that he did - please show evidence for that please....to help you out the answer is its speculation. You seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between speculation and fact.

it all gets judged on the ground by everyone individually unhindered by you. thats the beauty. there are structure thats a fact. they are dated. whatever anybody wants to make of them is thier choice. with the boggling size of the structures, and the circular nature and the canals and gridded farmland etc it gets harder and harder for anyone to see anything else. we'll see.

it has been 5 years and its his intellectual property. i suppose you just know how its all suppoded to go down just because you've walked on an archaeological site in crete? just like you know everything else

Originally posted by Hanslune

Who am I - I'm the guy who by asking questions and requesting evidence demolished your speculation on Atlantis being in central Europe.

Demanding of you? Yes the evidence to support your assertions, rather standard faire for the scientific method -you should read up about that I think. No, I heard about them but due to your sentence structure spelling I didn't understand why you were making the comment - when I don't understand something I ask questions, remember Parta you wrote a bunch of poorly spelled gibberish and I asked you to explain it .

poorly spelled? what? abzu? enki? ra? what spelling hans. you know what they say about someone who has to resort to spelling critiques especially when there isn't a spelling problem is there? i'm really getting tired of the trolling.

exactly what claim have you made i didn't counter? is there a problem with the trade goods that you demanded? what?

Originally posted by Hanslune
I'm sorry that deeply disturbes you. Well we don't claim to be experts in this obscure subject but you constantly state that we do. We are not and I can say with completely certainty that you are no expert in the matter either, lol

i'm sorry this disturbs you. knowingly posting false information repeated seems to indicate that you are desperate. posting every few minutes on every topic is pretty obviously another problem.

and no hans, no switching this time. i mean the facts and evidence that you just said exist against atlantis. you just said facts and evidence against it remember? give me one scientific source that says atlantis didn't exist. just one. i've shown you maps and pottery and structures. what do you have? you think chinese pottery is 5000 years older than japanese.

Originally posted by Hanslune

That is your claim so you can provide the evidence, but I have to ask what exactly is it you are claiming and what is the point? What does this have to do with your theory about Atlantis being in central Europe?

as above the evidence and facts presented are supposed to be those you just said exist against atlantis quote one scientific source that says there is no atlantis. i have quoted my scientists, shown pottery, structures. show me one link that supports you.

Originally posted by Parta

yes a 2 second trip to wiki and one would see i'm correct. but before that how many times have you yourself said the tale might be jumbled together from many sources. just looking for a fight?

No clarification, we now agree that information on Persian writings were in the Greek world as of the 3rd century BC, well after Plato died. Did he assembled his story from a lot of sources and not the Egyptians, yes I think we can say that. Does this help your story about Atlantis in central Europe? No not an iota

it all gets judged on the ground by everyone individually unhindered by you. thats the beauty. there are structure thats a fact. they are dated. whatever anybody wants to make of them is thier choice. with the boggling size of the structures, and the circular nature and the canals and gridded farmland etc it gets harder and harder for anyone to see anything else. we'll see.

Yes we'll see once you get hard archaeological evidence but it sure is slow in coming, a civilization the size of Plato's Atlantis would have left massive amounts of evidence - and yet it cannot be found. If you go to Crete, Egypt, Harappa, Sumer, etc the evidence for these civilizations is easily found within minutes of arriving in country.....

poorly spelled? what? abzu? enki? ra? what spelling hans. you know what they say about someone who has to resort to spelling critiques especially when there isn't a spelling problem is there? i'm really getting tired of the trolling.

You still haven't explained what you are talking about - try harder. Take a deep breath, and try to write something that isn't a personal attack, e x p l a i n.

and no hans, no switching this time. i mean the facts and evidence that you just said exist against atlantis. you just said facts and evidence against it remember? give me one scientific source that says atlantis didn't exist.

Sorry Parta when someone who is dealing with information and facts asks someone else to prove a negative you know they have failed completely. Sorry I cannot prove that a fictional story is false. You have to prove it is real.

Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or "appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for: "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false, it is "generally accepted" (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four, (1) true, (2) false, (3) unknown between true or false, and (4) being unknowable (among the first three).[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.

i've shown you maps and pottery and structures.

and have failed repeatedly in demonstrating that they are in any way related to fictional Atlantis. You are again making the amateur mistake of believing that what you believe or state = fact. It doesn't.