Ancient Walled City, Older than Egypt's Pyramids, Unearthed off US Georgia Coast

reply to post by bottleslingguy


I get your point, but I would point out that lack of technology does not mean lack of imagination. Tools can be constructed. One does not need high-tense steel to cut stone. All that is needed is a harder stone. Granite works on limestone, diamond on granite. Consider this: Mining engineers, of which I know a few, will freely tell you that mining and quarrying technology has not changed dramatically in a couple thousand years. it is the same concept but with different technology.

Now, you also gloss over why someone would undertake such a daunting task. Motivation is almost always key to an endeavor. Large scale projects have large scale motivation behind them. It could be money, religion, grief, but nowadays it's mostly money. But please refer to my opening sentence. Imagination breeds technology. (I should copyright that just in case.)

Cheers!

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
I doubt the video is even close in scale to what they were doing 12 thousand years ago.

The things the Romans were working with are no match for the size of blocks they dealt with thousands of years earlier.

I believe the above pretty much displays your ignorance of Roman construction, and says nothing else about anything.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
"The simple fact is we have lost knowledge of how much of this was carried out. " You guys always fall into this trap and you are actually making my point. Other than metals what kinds of materials COULD they have been using to do what's been done?

Other than using microchips, how could modern humans have created cell phones?

IOW, why do you say "other than metals" here?
We know they used copper.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
How could such a superior ability be lost? Doesn't that seem like a great advantage to have as a civilization- the ability to mysteriously cut, shape and maneuver gigantic blocks of stone? The Roman Temple of Jupiter (I think) in Lebanon sits on top of a foundation ( they didn't build it ) that uses blocks much bigger than anything the Romans worked with.

It's been found, and the paper is linked right here at ATS, that the Romans did place those large stones at Balbeck

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
You can't just gloss over the real world physics involved with this, so you're basically just speculating and if you can't come up with a better guess than that you need to start reconsidering your story.

Given the fact that I actually teach "real world physics" every day, I don't believe anyone but you is glossing anything over.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
How else can granite be cut into shapes without the materials, pressures, temperatures that we know of today that must be involved or else you're talking about things that HAD TO COME FROM some other more advanced civilization?

Granite was pounded out with diorite pounding stones then smoothed and shaped with shaping stones. This was accomplished after the granite was fired, that is, heated with fires, which softens the surface enough to accomplish the above.
These tools have been found. Some of them right there in the trench where a granite obelisk was in the process of being quarried (the obelisk broke, so the work was stopped, and the partially shaped obelisk is still right there in the quarry for all to see.)

Hey, you asked.

Harte

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by Harte

Moving muck does not take any advanced technology.

I mentioned "scale of work" in regard to the canals. The amount of physical labor involved in doing what is apparent up and down the East coast and into the Gulf, begs the question how it was done without language and sophisticated engineering. Your saying people twelve or so thousand years ago just thought it would be cool to start digging perfectly straight for like a hundred miles?

"Without language?"
Were they mute?

Where is your evidence for the age you so blithely toss around?

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by Harte

You have the theory wrong here, and in any case, there exists no evidence whatsoever that the Sphinx predates the Old Kingdom of Ancient Egypt.

None.

Enlighten me on how that is not rain erosion. It's a forensic wet dream. There's no getting around it. I'm sure you and your ilk will try though.

Even Robert Schoch, the author of the theory you're trying to state, doesn't base his date on any water erosion.

He notes it looks like water erosion, but his date is based entirely on subsurface weathering due to exposure of the underlaying bedrock to air.

The erosion itself has been explained in other ways, and the subsurface weathering argument has been exposed as spurious.

I'm sure you can find all the info on this you need right here at ATS.

If not, let me know.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by Harte
In fact, field archaeologists have sawn limestone blocks with copoper saws, proving that there is not a single bit of shaped stone from Ancient Egypt that couldn't have been shaped using the technology the AE's are known to have had.

There is abundant info here at ATS regarding how this was done, as well as how it was done with granite.

BS, nothing even close to the scale we're talking about and you're wrong if you say "all you have to do is scale it up" because it don't work like that.

So, four men can't saw twice as much as two?

Don't gloss over the "real-world" physics of the situation.

Harte

reply to post by ktorvalds

As the saying goes "people can not handle the truth" no matter in which day of age we live....shaking the core fundamentals of believes will result in a total anarchy, even in 10,000 years from now...people will always be people...and how can you define,what really is or isn't good to our overall benefit....the same boundries that existed thousands of years ago still apply today.

Originally posted by LeftLeoLearning
Atlantis
2nd~~!

No need to search for Atlantis...just gaze about you.

Originally posted by shapur
reply to post by ktorvalds

 

As the saying goes "people can not handle the truth" no matter in which day of age we live....shaking the core fundamentals of believes will result in a total anarchy, even in 10,000 years from now...people will always be people...and how can you define,what really is or isn't good to our overall benefit....the same boundries that existed thousands of years ago still apply today.

While what you say might be true, you don't tell us how the discovery of Atlantis would "shake the core fundamentals of beliefs."

Especially here at ATS where posters very often believe the impossible, and even state the impossible as if it were factual.

If some higher authority were trying to hide our past, then how is it that we know about, for example, the age of Jericho, or the earliest fired pottery, or Gobekli Tepe?

All of the above shook fundamental beliefs at the time they were discovered..

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

While what you say might be true, you don't tell us how the discovery of Atlantis would "shake the core fundamentals of beliefs."

Especially here at ATS where posters very often believe the impossible, and even state the impossible as if it were factual.

atlantis proves whose bible is the right one. christianity is inaccurate as is islam, hinduism and judaism but those silly old zoroastrians were there for the show.

Originally posted by Harte
If some higher authority were trying to hide our past, then how is it that we know about, for example, the age of Jericho, or the earliest fired pottery, or Gobekli Tepe?

Harte

there are some places on the earth [and right in the middle of it], where science still had never had the opportunity to visit.... imagine science never having been to anatolia.

there are big questions like where did the sumerians and egyptians really come from that noone can really answer.

Why don't people understand that the Native Americans were not unintelligent. They had many communities and an extensive trade system. They had plenty of food and managed their resources so they didn't need to plant all their food. They did plant things, or basicly corral things and knew how to keep seeds. They usually didn't need walled cities because if you have nothing of major value you don't attract thieves. Their wants and desires were different than many of the settlers. There were settlers here that shared their lifestyle but they were considered heathons by the city class and You won't find out much about these people in the history books.

Originally posted by rickymouse
Why don't people understand that the Native Americans were not unintelligent. They had many communities and an extensive trade system. They had plenty of food and managed their resources so they didn't need to plant all their food. They did plant things, or basicly corral things and knew how to keep seeds. They usually didn't need walled cities because if you have nothing of major value you don't attract thieves. Their wants and desires were different than many of the settlers. There were settlers here that shared their lifestyle but they were considered heathons by the city class and You won't find out much about these people in the history books.

but they did build villages with wooden palisades. Some used nature to provide defense like the cliff houses of the American South west. You may have been referring to North American Indian but there brothers to the south had learned the value of a good wall. Mayapan had a wall

stone perimeter wall has twelve gates, including seven major gates with vaulted entrances. The wall is 9.1 km long and is roughly ovate with a pointed northeast corner.

Mayapan

reply to post by Hanslune

You are right about that. I was referring to comments that because of lack of agriculture and lack of evidence of big elaborate structures that they were not an advanced civilization. When I was a kid, our doors were never locked on our house and we had stuff that had value in it. Nowadays you have to lock you're doors and can't leave stuff outside. People are also hacking electronic information and stealing money this way worldwide. Since this falls under "conning people out of their money" there are not many laws governing it. If there were laws for these, the fees for lawyers would also be scrutinized and the policies of the medical and pharmacutical professions would be investigated. That will never happen. I remember when thiefs and cons only targeted the rich. Now they target everyone. At least there's no discrimination anymore.

Originally posted by Parta

Originally posted by Harte

While what you say might be true, you don't tell us how the discovery of Atlantis would "shake the core fundamentals of beliefs."

Especially here at ATS where posters very often believe the impossible, and even state the impossible as if it were factual.

atlantis proves whose bible is the right one. christianity is inaccurate as is islam, hinduism and judaism but those silly old zoroastrians were there for the show.

While you might believe this, I don't.

It's a matter of faith. I think they're all "wrong" if you want to call it that.

Originally posted by Parta

Originally posted by Harte
If some higher authority were trying to hide our past, then how is it that we know about, for example, the age of Jericho, or the earliest fired pottery, or Gobekli Tepe?

there are some places on the earth [and right in the middle of it], where science still had never had the opportunity to visit.... imagine science never having been to anatolia.

there are big questions like where did the sumerians and egyptians really come from that noone can really answer.

I agree there are many questions.

I disagree that someone his "hiding" the answers from us.

Harte

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by Hanslune

 

You are right about that. I was referring to comments that because of lack of agriculture and lack of evidence of big elaborate structures that they were not an advanced civilization.

That is because everyone has a different idea and view of what 'advanced civilization' means

When I was a kid, our doors were never locked on our house and we had stuff that had value in it. Nowadays you have to lock you're doors and can't leave stuff outside. People are also hacking electronic information and stealing money this way worldwide. Since this falls under "conning people out of their money" there are not many laws governing it.

This is a modern American point of view, there are rural areas of America where this doesn't apply as it does to many other places in the world. Other places in the world have been dangrous for thousands of years. In the 1840's in New York - you locked your doors....if to just to keep drunken sailors from bursting in to sleep

At least there's no discrimination anymore.

Nice rant but there is still discrimination - certain tribal cultures constantly raided and killed one another but they had neither doors, locks or walls but they lived in deadly peril.

reply to post by Hanslune
The discrimination thing was a pun about rich and poor victims. I live in upper Michigan and things are getting worse up here. At one time it was much more of an honest place. Kids got in trouble and people got drunk before but not many people would break into a house then. It keeps getting worse. People got guns here and one of these days someone is going to get shot breaking in. I guess it'll stop the breakins if it happens a few times.

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by Hanslune

 

The discrimination thing was a pun about rich and poor victims. I live in upper Michigan and things are getting worse up here. At one time it was much more of an honest place. Kids got in trouble and people got drunk before but not many people would break into a house then. It keeps getting worse. People got guns here and one of these days someone is going to get shot breaking in. I guess it'll stop the breakins if it happens a few times.

Well for Michigan as a whole the murder rate in 2010 was 567 people, in 1987 it was 1,124 - that was peak after 1960 which was 353.

So not that high much higher in other parts of the world

Michigan crime rates

reply to post by Harte



which does your mathematical mind like more. a big boat filled with animals you'll never find or a big cowpen that you can take a vacation in their thermal radioactive mud and oil baths? science always wanted proof of religion

i don't believe anyone is hiding it any more than you. i believe hundreds of years ago they were responding to local and historical threats and thought they were removing the symbols of a much more recent angry minority and noone ever got back there till now.

reply to post by Harte

How long do you think it would take to cut and shape (never mind transport) one block around 200 tons using copper saws?

The site is quite an enigma because at the time of its construction the Native Americans living in the area were simple hunters and gatherers who had yet to invent agriculture. Many scholars believe agriculture is a prerequisite for civilization.

Let's see if I can solve this mystery for ya'll.

Obviously the term 'hunter/gatherer' fails completely. Well it fails by 2/3rds. What it should say is 'hunter/gatherer/fisherman.

To me since these structures have been found 'along the coastline' and it has been stated:

Uncovered artifacts suggest the Indians harvested oysters, clams, mussels, fish, crabs, snails and turtles in nearby tidal wetlands. They hunted small game like deer, rabbits and squirrels and picked up hickory nuts and acorns.

So these so-called 'nomads' that couldn't have a society because they didn't have agriculture most probably formed these permanent settlements because of the easy access to the sea and tidal marshes for a steady supply of food that doesn't run away. I'll also bet that the outer walls were created with shells and are actually middens.

Either that or they were time traveling oyster people from Omicron Persei 8...

reply to post by predator0187

I recall there is a passage in the bible somewhere that in no uncertain terms says that all hidden things will reveal themselves, and I guess this is the evolutionary point we're all at now, indicating that ALL hidden things will be discovered or, for those who embrace Gaia theory, the planet herself will see that they are revealed. If the planet does have a consciousness as Gaia theory hints at, it/She obviously knows where everything lays hidden.

y all keep searching for Atlantis. Its all around you.....! you have but to open your eyes!

reply to post by etidorpha


--Gia theory! the original Gia theory? or the New Age Gia theory?