What are best ways to educate a skeptic?

reply to post by Jaellma


Skeptics seem to always wear the old horse blinders that keeps them from looking at the whole scene. They tend to choose a particular tact and discuss only that. What they cannot do with any success is to take the whole of the UFO experience that is found in the literature--that would be called a meta-analysis--and dismiss the entire topic from their armchairs.

You may have noted the prime skeptic on ATS only zeros in on those things that can be proven as something other than a genuine UFO. You have to wonder how may such investigations of his came up with no explanation that suited him and he dropped the issue before he started his first post.

Skeptics like to pick and choose to battle their conclusions with nothing other than what they believe. Their ranks are diminishing at ATS. You can argue over vids and still images all day, but you cannot give a successful argument that UFOs and today's triangles do not exist. Even Sagan couldn't do that so he stuck to explaining what (human) Science couldn't do so as to say it was unthinkable that aiens could do either. He knew better of course, because he well knew the old Scientific term: "You can't prove a negative."

Originally posted by Jaellma

Again, I am trying to do this in an organized fashion. What would your suggestion be since I have chosen this path?

For myself Ive found that its a lot of fun to present ones views and evidence and realizations but its no fun believing you have to convince everyone. You dont have to.

reply to post by Aliensun


There are just as many "blind believers" who seem to have blinders on, also. They are just as closed-minded as the stubborn pseudo-skeptic (or the "Deniers", as some have called them).

No matter how much evidence to the contrary they are shown, they can't "Not Believe" a sighting may simply have a man-made or mundane explanation. There are knee-jerk deniers on both sides -- people who deny that a sighting is conventionally unexplainable AND people who deny that a sighting is NOT an alien craft.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by Aliensun

 

There are just as many "blind believers" who seem to have blinders on, also. They are just as closed-minded as the stubborn pseudo-skeptic (or the "Deniers", as some have called them).

No matter how much evidence to the contrary they are shown, they can't "Not Believe" a sighting may simply have a man-made or mundane explanation. There are knee-jerk deniers on both sides -- people who deny that a sighting is conventionally unexplainable AND people who deny that a sighting is NOT an alien craft.

This is confusing but fun - So we have blind believers being led by blind believers whilst psuedo skeptics stubbornly stand their ground pointing fingers and real skeptics just think for themselves and remain open minded to new ideas and as for those aliens do they understand the trouble they are causing if they really are hovering around.

talk about something believable + understandable = something real

You cannot educate a skeptic... because they already believe they know everything...

You can, once you have proof, show them proof, but many will still not accept it.
There were "men of science" that said flight is impossible long after the Wright Brothers proved it was

Then eventually when it becomes common knowledge, the skeptics will say "What's the big deal? that is old news"



The funniest day I had on ATS is when I saw a group of hard core old timer skeptics talking about the new Secret Space plane after the NASA announcement that amateurs had tracked it, NASA using the headline Secret Space Plane... It was funny really, because before that these same people were vehemently arguing against it

All truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Second it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident. - Arthur Schopenhauer

So very true

Originally posted by gortex
I am a believer in the ET hypothesis but not in youtube videos of balloons , lanterns , planes or night vision of satellites ,birds and bugs and no amount of education will make me

So you believe in ET but you don't believe in "balloons , lanterns , planes or night vision of satellites ,birds and bugs"

Odd...

Sorry just couldn't resist that one... it was like an open door beckoning

The best way to educate a sceptic is to not bother. TBF though when you read some of the conspiraloon gobaldy-gook loonspud insanity that gets posted on these here boards is there any wonder they are sceptical?

Originally posted by captaincosmic
BF though when you read some of the conspiraloon gobaldy-gook loonspud insanity that gets posted on these here boards is there any wonder they are sceptical?

(not necessarily at you.....)
Yes yes...as opposed to posts of illogical wishful thinking with zero research or presentation as to why something is of extraterrestrial origin. sounds like a plan

No no...ignore any logical explanations presented....because that blows the romanticism of everything is of extraterrestrial origin

Until we start seeing why that video or image is NOT of an explainable origin, than the skeptics will continue to use reason and logic and research to show how something IS of explainable origin.

Grant it....when anyone just posts "HOAX" or "FAKE" or "PLANE" that too provides nothing.....

Originally posted by Nikola014
We can't do anything about it. The only one who can change skeptic mind is himself. We can show them a dozens of proofs, but it still wouldn't matter because once you've decide not to believe in something, there is nothing that can change your mind. Skeptic will always be skeptic till he/she sees a UFO or alien...

Dozens of proofs?

If you had dozens of proofs, we would not be having this discussion.

Skeptics are not set in their way and unable to think, you know. They probably scrutinize the evidence more than you do. They are skeptics because they don't accept given evidence as proof. As they shouldn't. To my knowlege (as a believer), there is no proof yet. Belief is only a matter of faith or experience. Not because of pictures and stories.

The real question is, why do you believe?

Originally posted by Jaellma
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

The problem with that is they have asked for more information so I have the option of providing or not providing information on what I know.

You're never going to convince someone who doesn't believe in UFO's they exist. They have to "convince" themselves. Short of having aliens drop into plane sight of the world and land in a major city who're not gonna convince anyone who is closed minded. Or refuses to believe the possibility exists. Being skeptical is good though. Closed minded is bad.

All you can do is present what evidence you have to the person and let them make up their own minds. Occasionally, something will come across as totally unexplainable. If they still refuse to believe the possibility exists, then there is nothing you can do.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


I like what Soylent Green says. I think it's important to determine really where a person is at vis a vis this kind of material first. There are skeptics who are very rigid and unbending as to their belief systems, and also many believers as well. If they (the skeptic in question) are asking about it (and I guess this part is really to the OP) then that shows a genuine curiousity and all you can do is come from where your really are, like Soylent said, just be honest. The true skeptic just wants to know the lay of the land and the facts involved. Citing good sources is a start. (Hawking for instance has been strangely loose on the subject as of late) The feeling I get is one of responsibility for the introduction to a subject, not necessarily that one would be responsible for another person's conclusions. If a person is a true skeptic then they are probably questioning a very large range of issues, many of which may or may not be publically accepted knowledge. My real advice for them ( the true skeptic) would be to go outside at night, and look around. Hang around airports. Buy a telescope. Ask people you meet who are willing to talk about it. Look for yourself. It is surprising the number of things that happen in the night sky, explainable or not.

Why not simply allow all people, no matter their opinion participate and debate without having to create threads to denigrate them for their beliefs?

Where do you peg me in this board full of holes? I'm an eye witness to a classic 1960's Saucer who admits I have no idea if it was Alien or simply experimental. I accept that intelligent life is likely all over the Universe. However the logical part of my brain says other things to me.

The most likely answer for most UFO's is that they are explainable and that we simply cannot see them close enough or well enough to tell what they are. When we do see them, the most likely true answer is they are of very earthly origin and they are still being kept from the public view. The most likely scenario if we are visited would be a robotic probe anyway. All of that is true.

I play the Skeptics role because I see that role as being absolutely necessary. What is insane is a blind belief based on nothing but thousands of video's of little lights in the sky. What is also insane is blind believers not realizing how their beliefs are used against them by attention seekers and people with dollar signs in their eyes.

So where do you peg me since I'm a believer who approaches the topic with critical thinking and logic?

What is wrong with debate and why is it so many seem to want to only talk to people who agree with them and get angry when opposing views are presented as we see here so often?

What is right about believing everything and anything on this topic blindly? Is that not embracing ignorance?

Instead of thread after thread about anger at Skeptics or a desire to get them to believe the way blind believers want them to, why don't we simply have the debates and learn from them? No insults, veiled or otherwise, no name calling, no arrogant assumptions that only one side is right and simply engage in discussions to learn.

Originally posted by Jaellma
reply to post by interupt42

 

Maybe I shouldn't spend time trying to educate folks who don't believe. I just felt that since I know this person it would help trying to explain what I know. I just wanted to do it in a way that is organized and even if they still don't believe at least they would appreciate my effort and ability in trying to convey basic facts and assumptions.

Nothing wrong with explaining how you came to your conclusion, but you or anyone else can't say without a doubt (factually prove) that Aliens are visiting us. Hence you are setting yourself for failure, because in the end it was not facts that lead you to your conclusion but rather a leap of faith.

The fact that you personally saw a UFO does not mean that you should conclude that same UFO was controlled by Aliens. Many more plausible scenerious could exists such as advanced millatary technology, millatary propaganda ,diversions, hype,etc.....

Bottom line we are in a dirty state of knowledge. We can't confirm or deny that Aliens are visiting us. There are just a many reasons for the Gov't to hide the knowledge of Aliens as for them to encourage and spread the word of a fake Alien controlled UFO.

The facts as I see them.
1. Its mathematically and scientifically impossible for us to be the only life in the universe.
2. Our government has intentionally lied to us in the past. Whether it was for the greater good or not doesn't matter or change the fact that they have purposely lied to us.
3. Knowledge is power.

So from those three facts I can conclude that its possible for Aliens to be visiting us and for our government to be hiding it.

However, I can also conclude that it would also be in the best interest of our government to maintain the element of surprise and power by ensuring that our latest technology is not discovered by our enemies. It would also be in the best interest of our goverment for the general public in our country and more importantly for our enemies to believe and speculate on Alien visitors in the event they spot one of our objects.

So in the end you have to take a leap of faith or go with your gut feeling.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Why not simply allow all people, no matter their opinion participate and debate without having to create threads to denigrate them for their beliefs?

That would be too logical... and we all know what a famous person said about logic

"Logic is a little bird tweeting in meadow; logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which ... smell bad..." (Spock)

Where do you peg me in this board full of holes? I'm an eye witness to a classic 1960's Saucer who admits I have no idea if it was Alien or simply experimental. I accept that intelligent life is likely all over the Universe. However the logical part of my brain says other things to me.

Easy right on one of those fence posts, smack in the middle, maybe leaning to the right a bit

The most likely answer for most UFO's is that they are explainable and that we simply cannot see them close enough or well enough to tell what they are. When we do see them, the most likely true answer is they are of very earthly origin and they are still being kept from the public view. The most likely scenario if we are visited would be a robotic probe anyway. All of that is true.

Truth is relative to the facts of the day. Yesterday's truth is no longer true today and tomorrows truth will be different again.

Skeptics like to toss Occam's Razor into the mix... but have they ever understood it? Or just spout the 'norm'?

The principle is often summarized as "simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones." In practice, the principle is usually focused on shifting the burden of proof in discussions. That is, the razor is a principle that suggests we should tend towards simpler theories until we can trade some simplicity for increased explanatory power. Contrary to the popular summary, the simplest available theory is sometimes a less accurate explanation. Philosophers also add that the exact meaning of simplest can be nuanced

en.wikipedia.org...

I play the Skeptics role because I see that role as being absolutely necessary. What is insane is a blind belief based on nothing but thousands of video's of little lights in the sky. What is also insane is blind believers not realizing how their beliefs are used against them by attention seekers and people with dollar signs in their eyes.

The same insanity applies equally to pseudo skeptics and debunkers. Not a normal person who is skeptical and seeking real answers, but those people (and there are a LOT on ATS these days) that just pop into a thread and scream Fake Hoax or Photoshopped without even looking at the item in question. All they do is derail threads and scare off new posters. I have seen threads were a new member posts something he/she honestly wants an answer on and is barraged with negative posts.

I myself made a thread pointing this out... the thread was deleted, the board thread asking why was deleted and I was post banned for 60 days... so yeah I admit the thread was a trap for 'those type' But serious over reaction IMO

So where do you peg me since I'm a believer who approaches the topic with critical thinking and logic?

So done any rock hunting lately?

What is wrong with debate and why is it so many seem to want to only talk to people who agree with them and get angry when opposing views are presented as we see here so often?

What is right about believing everything and anything on this topic blindly? Is that not embracing ignorance?

Instead of thread after thread about anger at Skeptics or a desire to get them to believe the way blind believers want them to, why don't we simply have the debates and learn from them? No insults, veiled or otherwise, no name calling, no arrogant assumptions that only one side is right and simply engage in discussions to learn.

That goes equally to both extremes... I have seen a lot of nasty name calling from the skeptic side. I have seen certain people from that side follow you from thread to thread spewing the same hate... and when you get tired of it and finally toss back a snarky reply, ya get tagged with a slap because your supposed to have thicker skin.

So it works both ways... Deny Ignorance also applies to a skeptic who is in denial

Originally posted by Jaellma
There are many points of reference out there but unfortunately many are not credible enough or are tainted.

Originally posted by draknoir2
I think that such a realization is the first step towards the education of a "hard core" believer.

Very true. On the opposite end of the spectrum, however, are the hoards of skeptics who've not even bothered to read the Condon Report or Bluebook Special Report 14. (Official documents whose conclusions do not even come close to fitting their data, and which offer surprisingly compelling evidence that there actually IS something to the UFO phenomenon....)

reply to post by Jaellma


Supply them with hard irrefutable evidence.

reply to post by zorgon


Then you agree perhaps. Both sides call a truce and simply enjoy the debates and learning from them?

My point is very much applicable to all sides, no matter what silly title is given to anyone.

There is a thin line between being a believer or a fanatic as well as thin line between being a non-believer and a troll.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Then you agree perhaps. Both sides call a truce and simply enjoy the debates and learning from them?

Better solution...

Post the stuff I find of interest... get some popcorn... and watch them fight it out

That way those who find the material of value will gain something...

while the rest will have what they always have had..

...endless debate with no resolution

Some people will not believe even the Historical facts and seing a UFO is not necessarily a way to convince someone. I guess you have to experience somethings firsthand. Split Infinity