Must read the very secret Project Cloverleaf — The Science Behind it

reply to post by Uncinus


yes but molten steel was in fact seen pouring from the building .... so where did the molten metal come from? From the fire weakened steel? .... Now this being said I still don't believe in chemtrails but I just had to put in my 2 cents about the 911 steel argument.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Bad assertions? Isn't that what you and proudbird use?

Look, they spray today. Go ahead and google search herbicide spray along the American/Mexican border. The government did not learn from the Vietnam War what spraying herbicides does and they are still using it today.

Herbicides are sprayed all around the world, and have been commercially since the 1950's - I was born and raised in New Zealand where the agricultural aviation industry has been the backbone of the country's production for the past 60 years.

Granted, you probably won't find an article past 2009, but I can assure you that they're spraying to kill the plants that conceal border jumpers instead of manning the border properly.

Seems reasonable to me - so what has that got to do with "chemtrails" at 30-40,000 feet?

Also, brush up on your knowledge about nanotechnology and cross reference it with what I've already provided.

Why don't you tell us the links? So far you haven't provided me with anything I consider useful at all, so I'm not going to trawl over the vast amount of information about nanotechnology that exists in order to figure out something that I think you might think is important.

Nano technology exists - check - I get that. But it isn't invisible and if someone is "spraying" "it" in order for it to drift down to ground level and affect us somehow then where are the samples??

Once you digest all of that, come back and tell me that you don't believe the government would spray anything on you, your spouse, your mother/father, sister/brother, your children, and, especially, your grandchildren.

I know the government DOES spray stuff on people - in Auckland they did so twice in the last 20 years to get rid of imported insect pests, and a lot of people were very upset about it.

But it looked nothing at all like contrails coming from jet engines, wasn't done by jet airliners (although 1 F-27 Friendship turboprop was used), the aircraft had obvious spray equipment fitted, it was done at really low level, and the material was able to be sampled in the atmosphere and linked to the spraying.

So nothing whatsoever to do with chemtrails.

I believe similar is done in various parts of the USA during mosquito season, both from aircraft and ground vehicles.

If you want to complain about insecticide and herbicide spraying go right ahead - but those ain't the chemtrails that people are complaining about that make cirrus clouds over the sky from commercial airliners.

Originally posted by roguetechie
reply to post by Uncinus

 

yes but molten steel was in fact seen pouring from the building .... so where did the molten metal come from?

No molten steel was seen pouring from the building.

NIST concluded that the source of the molten material was aluminum alloys from the aircraft, since these are known to melt between 475 degrees Celsius and 640 degrees Celsius (depending on the particular alloy), well below the expected temperatures (about 1,000 degrees Celsius) in the vicinity of the fires. Aluminum is not expected to ignite at normal fire temperatures and there is no visual indication that the material flowing from the tower was burning.

Pure liquid aluminum would be expected to appear silvery. However, the molten metal was very likely mixed with large amounts of hot, partially burned, solid organic materials (e.g., furniture, carpets, partitions and computers) which can display an orange glow, much like logs burning in a fireplace. The apparent color also would have been affected by slag formation on the surface."
wtc.nist.gov...

Deunking 9/11 myths

OP you are so right. This is what they stole from Nikolai Tesla. He came up with this concept 100 years ago lol.

reply to post by tpaine1809


I agree this is Tesla brought to fruition. It was not science fiction then and it is most certainly now a reality. The funny thing is Nikola could have done it easier and cheaper and without all the tell tale signs.

reply to post by 5StarOracle


I'm sorry, but what?:

I agree this is Tesla brought to fruition.

This thread is about the myth and hoax of so-called "chemtrails".

Is it now the contention that these things date back as far as Tesla's time? The 1930s and 1940s?

Because, such a puzzle....since the modern claims all point to some time in the 1990s for this "phenomenon" (that is simply a misidentification of normal, everyday contrails).


Oh and in any case, the information in the OP is complete pseudo-science double-speak. It is also important to carefully consider the source that was provided, in the OP.

This same source has a YouTube screen name of "DutchSinse", and posts a slew of horribly incorrect and inaccurate claims in his videos. He makes claims, for instance, of "HAARP Rings" sen on weather radar displays.....when in fact, all that is seen are interference patterns, well known anomalies that occur with weather radar installations.

They guy has no credibility, whatsoever. A joke, in other words. Sadly though, there are many people who simply aren't able to have enough science literacy to see him for what he is.......

Science literacy, huh? You say this, but you don't see the connection between Tesla's power transmission system and chemtrails....

Now, I'm not completely sold on chemtrails, but if they are real and composed of metal particles.... Yeah the connection to Tesla's power generation and transmission are obvious.

On a side note, I would like to reiterate what a previous poster noted.

ProudBird, AtG, and several others appear to have no other purpose in life except to attempt to debunk threads here. They never seem to admit the slightest possibility that any subject they comment on is even remotely believeable. They demand that they are the absolute truth on the matter and that everyone else is ignorant or uneducated. They demand proof of a conspiracy theory. (By definition most of these things can only be speculated on and not proven - any intelligent person should realize this, right?)

Very curious use of ALOT of time on their part, if you ask me.

I think I'll check out the posting history and make new thread with average posts per day, time of day, days per week, etc. I think it will be very enlightening. Time to fire up Excel and make some graphs baby!

Originally posted by Uncinus
reply to post by DrunkNinja

 

Formus are not for posters to post material, then for everyone to agree with everything.

I was responding to the statement:

So, stop telling people.....WEATHER MODIFICATION...does not exist.

I was pointing out it was incorrect, and this usage was a straw man argument.

I don't think that just because the same incorrect statement keep coming up, we should simply let them slide the next time around.

I didn't say that at all, and you just made your own straw man argument. Saying, "I was responding to this" when I made it quite clear that what I stated was a generalization of all the posts you as well as the others mentioned have ever made in this forum. Making it about one specific post is clearly the thing you hate most "the strawman". How many times have you twisted a thread here to a debate about the existence of chem trails ? You can't just let people post, and talk about whats presented, under the assumption that they might exist, you have to always butt your noses in, derail the thread, and ridicule the op, and anyone that happens to agree with him. I think you four are one of the cancers that are killing this site, and I wish the mods would apply the "off topic removal" button to every post that attempts to twist this thread into something it shouldn't be, another boring do chem trails exist thread.

Saying strawman this, strawman that, and "in the 50s they did a lot of things prove its still happening" just sounds like a bunch of crying, and I doubt that anyone on this site besides the people that your insulting bother to read past the first sentence. 3 years of you guys saying the same crap over, and over, its getting really old. If ever anyone needed a clear definitive example of thread derailment, all they need to do is look at any thread in this forum for a clear example.

This thread is about the myth and hoax of so-called "chemtrails".

No it wasn't, ask the op what it was about, and I am quite sure they will say it wasn't to debate the existence of chemtrails with self proclaimed "debunkers", and aviation "internet experts". Making french fries at McDonald's doesn't translate to being an expert on the restaurant industry, in the same way that being a pilot or a baggage handler doesn't make you an expert in aviation or atmospheric reactions. Were all amateurs here unless you want to start showing off some science degrees. I for one don't see this happening anytime soon, and the "I am better than thou" attitude, as well as the lack of respect shown to other posters is disgusting.

Chemtrails – The List of Patents For Stratosperic Arial Spraying Programs! United States Patent and Trademark Office
1338343 – April 27, 1920 – Process And Apparatus For The Production of Intense Artificial Clouds, Fogs, or Mists
1619183 – March 1, 1927 – Process of Producing Smoke Clouds From Moving Aircraft
1631753 – June 7, 1927 – Electric Heater – Referenced in 3990987
1665267 – April 10, 1928 – Process of Producing Artificial Fogs
1892132 – December 27, 1932 – Atomizing Attachment For Airplane Engine Exhausts
1928963 – October 3, 1933 – Electrical System And Method
1957075 – May 1, 1934 – Airplane Spray Equipment
2097581 – November 2, 1937 – Electric Stream Generator – Referenced in 3990987
2409201 – October 15, 1946 – Smoke Producing Mixture
2476171 – July 18, 1945 – Smoke Screen Generator
2480967 – September 6, 1949 – Aerial Discharge Device
2550324 – April 24, 1951 – Process For Controlling Weather
2510867 – October 9, 1951 – Method of Crystal Formation and Precipitation
2582678 – June 15, 1952 – Material Disseminating Apparatus For Airplanes
2591988 – April 8, 1952 – Production of TiO2 Pigments – Referenced in 3899144
2614083 – October 14, 1952 – Metal Chloride Screening Smoke Mixture
2633455 – March 31, 1953 – Smoke Generator
2688069 – August 31, 1954 – Steam Generator – Referenced in 3990987
2721495 – October 25, 1955 – Method And Apparatus For Detecting Minute Crystal Forming Particles Suspended in a Gaseous Atmosphere
2730402 – January 10, 1956 – Controllable Dispersal Device
2801322 – July 30, 1957 – Decomposition Chamber for Monopropellant Fuel – Referenced in 3990987
2881335 – April 7, 1959 – Generation of Electrical Fields
2908442 – October 13, 1959 – Method For Dispersing Natural Atmospheric Fogs And Clouds
2986360 – May 30, 1962 – Aerial Insecticide Dusting Device
2963975 – December 13, 1960 – Cloud Seeding Carbon Dioxide Bullet
3126155 – March 24, 1964 – Silver Iodide Cloud Seeding Generator – Referenced in 3990987
3127107 – March 31, 1964 – Generation of Ice-Nucleating Crystals
3131131 – April 28, 1964 – Electrostatic Mixing in Microbial Conversions
3174150 – March 16, 1965 – Self-Focusing Antenna System
3234357 – February 8, 1966 – Electrically Heated Smoke Producing Device
3274035 – September 20, 1966 – Metallic Composition For Production of Hydroscopic Smoke
3300721 – January 24, 1967 – Means For Communication Through a Layer of Ionized Gases
3313487 – April 11, 1967 – Cloud Seeding Apparatus
3338476 – August 29, 1967 – Heating Device For Use With Aerosol Containers – Referenced in 3990987
3410489 – November 12, 1968 – Automatically Adjustable Airfoil Spray System With Pump
3429507 – February 25, 1969 – Rainmaker
3432208 – November 7, 1967 – Fluidized Particle Dispenser
3441214 – April 29, 1969 – Method And Apparatus For Seeding Clouds
3445844 – May 20, 1969 – Trapped Electromagnetic Radiation Communications System
3456880 – July 22, 1969 – Method Of Producing Precipitation From The Atmosphere
3518670 June 30, 1970 – Artificial Ion Cloud
3534906 – October 20, 1970 – Control of Atmospheric Particles
3545677 – December 8, 1970 – Method of Cloud Seeding
3564253 – February 16, 1971 – System And Method For Irradiation Of Planet Surface Areas
3587966 – June 28, 1971 – Freezing Nucleation
3601312 – August 24, 1971 – Methods of Increasing The Likelihood oF Precipatation By The Artificial Introduction Of Sea Water Vapor Into The Atmosphere Winward Of An Air Lift Region
3608810 – September 28, 1971 – Methods of Treating Atmospheric Conditions
3608820 – September 20, 1971 – Treatment of Atmospheric Conditions by Intermittent Dispensing of Materials Therein
3613992 – October 19, 1971 – Weather Modification Method
3630950 – December 28, 1971 – Combustible Compositions For Generating Aerosols, Particularly Suitable For Cloud Modification And Weather Control And Aerosolization Process
USRE29142 – This patent is a reissue of patent US3630950 – Combustible compositions for generating aerosols, particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process
3659785 – December 8, 1971 – Weather Modification Utilizing Microencapsulated Material
3666176 – March 3, 1972 – Solar Temperature Inversion Device
3677840 – July 18, 1972 – Pyrotechnics Comprising Oxide of Silver For Weather Modification Use
3722183 – March 27, 1973 – Device For Clearing Impurities From The Atmosphere
3769107 – October 30, 1973 – Pyrotechnic Composition For Generating Lead Based Smoke
3784099 – January 8, 1974 – Air Pollution Control Method
3785557 – January 15, 1974 – Cloud Seeding System
3795626 – March 5, 1974 – Weather Modification Process
3808595 – April 30, 1974 – Chaff Dispensing System
3813875 – June 4, 1974 – Rocket Having Barium Release System to Create Ion Clouds In The Upper Atmopsphere
3835059 – September 10, 1974 – Methods of Generating Ice Nuclei Smoke Particles For Weather Modification And Apparatus Therefore
3835293 – September 10, 1974 – Electrical Heating Aparatus For Generating Super Heated Vap

Information from THE SOVERIEGN INDERPENDENT WEBSITE

the above post and for more info please go to ....

www.seektress.com...

ALSO CHECK OUT COAST TO CAOST..... www.coasttocoastam.com...
FOR MORE PICS.

Goes with out saying "where there's smoke there's fire", not a easy subject to put down.

reply to post by panicman66


nvm.....you provided the "source".

Even if it is not relevant, you still offered a "source", nonetheless...

AND...the first ten "patents" (by my count) date from 1927 to 1945!!

SO, I ask....."relevance" to modern contrails, made by jet airliners, at and above 30.000 feet??

Is what, again?

Originally posted by ShockTruther
On a side note, I would like to reiterate what a previous poster noted.

ProudBird, AtG, and several others appear to have no other purpose in life except to attempt to debunk threads here. They never seem to admit the slightest possibility that any subject they comment on is even remotely believeable. They demand that they are the absolute truth on the matter and that everyone else is ignorant or uneducated. They demand proof of a conspiracy theory. (By definition most of these things can only be speculated on and not proven - any intelligent person should realize this, right?)

People keep saying hey have proof - so what's wrong with examining it?

Very curious use of ALOT of time on their part, if you ask me.

Not really - chemtrails are so debunked that it is trivial - the same old "evidence" gets repeated - and it's been debunked ages ago.

If chemtrail believers believed in doing research as many claim, then they'd know about the bunk in the old "evidence" already.

I think I'll check out the posting history and make new thread with average posts per day, time of day, days per week, etc. I think it will be very enlightening. Time to fire up Excel and make some graphs baby!

Check the T&C first

Originally posted by panicman66

Chemtrails – The List of Patents For Stratosperic Arial Spraying Programs! United States Patent and Trademark Office
1338343 – April 27, 1920 – Process And Apparatus For The Production of Intense Artificial Clouds, Fogs, or Mists
1619183 – March 1, 1927 – Process of Producing Smoke Clouds From Moving Aircraft
1631753 – June 7, 1927 – Electric Heater – Referenced in 3990987
1665267 – April 10, 1928 – Process of Producing Artificial Fogs
1892132 – December 27, 1932 – Atomizing Attachment For Airplane Engine Exhausts
1928963 – October 3, 1933 – Electrical System And Method
d

.
.
.
etc

Are there any in there that aren't listed here - www.abovetopsecret.com... ?

And I will confess that doing that did take a bit of time, but only an hour or so, and it is now so easy to refer to!

reply to post by killemall


Just to get my .02 out there, Tesla did promote his "death ray", and I do believe it to be a scalar energy based weapon...and I recall that fine particles of barium and aluminum were used for some type of enhanced radar or comm system. Its all speculation though, unless you actually know, and if you do I'm sure you have some type of clearance from the gov...so you wouldn't be talking about it anyway...all conjecture.

reply to post by paearmor


..and just for the record, I really don't know what "scalar" means except some type of electromagnetic energy being transferred, use of frequencies etc...

..ill google it later

An amusing thread. I like the ones where folks ignore the words in the top left corner of the screen with such passion.

This one is particularily good since I have now found out that Phage MUST be part of the chemtrail conspiracy, an insider, a government stooge, I mean why else would he post so much bleedin obvious chemtrail debunking material.........unless he was stating the truth oh my god there's a shocking thought.

Surely all the conspirators of chemtrails MUST be hiding from the normal air and be inside secretive air conditioned bunkers. Why poison yourself?.....unless it's all nonsense.

Originally posted by nuttin4U

In any case, the spreading, persistent contrails have been observed for a very long time before "chemtrails" came on the scene.

That is just LAUGHABLE. That's what the chemtrail debunkers keep saying...with their crystal clear photos...edited in photoshop; to make it look like "a very long time".

These days, PROOF can be EASILY MADE. There is no black and white, it's all grey! It's kinda like a debate, where both parties are screaming at each other: "Is too! Is not!" "I got proof!"; "And i got proof!" People have lost their 'animal instincts'...and TV has played a HUGE part of that. We rely too much, on what "other people" say, instead of listening to our own INSTINCTS.

Let's ask the "experts"? hahahahah Pah-lease.....WE'RE ALL AMATEURS! Some people, just THINK their experts! E=MC2 WHO CARES! hahahahahah Can you build a fire, without matches or a lighter?

Here's a link of CONTRAIL photos looking every bit like the alleged "Chemtrails" going all the way back to the 40s.....and nothing photoshoped. Most of the pictures have links to the books they were published in, that you can actually research and find, if you'd care to.
contrailscience.com...

Originally posted by Uncinus
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

That's all very interesting, but what has the ionosphere (250,000 feet to 3,000,000 feet) to do with "chemtrails" (30,000 feet)?

edit on 27-1-2012 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)

"O.M.G." (quote from PB) Uncinus!! I read the OP and it was about Project Cloverleaf and HAARP. HAARP is 'researching' the ionosphere. I thought my post was on topic i.e. that military research of the ionosphere, historically, has meant destroying it by blowing up bombs in it. Or by sending hundreds of thousands of millions of copper needles into it. Talk about geoengineering gone wild! But what was your tedious thought? Was it a criticism of off-topic? What does it all mean - do enlighten!!

Originally posted by PhageThe atmosphere "supports" electromagnetic waves just fine without any help from "chemtrails". What do you think light is? What do you think radio is?

Funny article though. "GWEN pulse radars". GWEN is not (was not) a radar system, pulse or otherwise. A fine bit of nonsense from good old Dutchsinse. Still at it.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 1/27/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

You seem to have all the answers, why would an agency of the Federal Government spend Millions if not Billions on this project and label it Top Secret??? Duh

You need to get more convincing with your disinfo, and what alphabet agency do you work for???