Did Carl Sagan know something?

reply to post by BBalazs
Most likely no one really knows what ufo's "flying saucers" are or where their really coming from,but at least sagan didnt ignore them and by reading in the link i posted above,its clear he had a lot more to do with ufo's than most people probably realize...

reply to post by blocula


yes, I agree, and you know what the irony is?
if a ufo did come and visit now, we would have no way of knowing, with all the fake stories.
ufo is big business. huge business.
it is pretty much a belief, without any evidence.
is it possible that ufos visit or visited.
sure. and I believe Sagan though the same thing.
Its just that every case examined turned out to be a hoax, or inconclusive at best.
as a scientist you cannot just accept speculation based in and of itself.
but off course he was keen and open minded is some respect.
for him getting to know or discovering a ufo would have been bliss in itself.
may i add, I also feel the same.

Originally posted by blocula
I was always intrigued by the title of carl sagans 1995 published book "the demon haunted world" really weird?!

After reading it, I thought it suited pretty well.
Excellent book.

Originally posted by kickstart
reply to post by blocula

 

If you were to communicate to an unknown species with multiple languages you would probably choose the most common one. 10yrs ago it was estimated that over 1.5 billion people can speak english although in alot of cases its not the native language, followed by 1.3 billion who speak the different versions of chinese. Seems obvious to me if you were trying to communicate to the majority english would be your choice....

That makes sense and perhaps your right?

But it seem strange to me and perhaps too good to be true that...

Ghosts who have spoken and aliens that land in france communicate in french...

Ghosts that have spoken and aliens that land in japan communicate in japanese...

Ghosts that have spoken and aliens that land in the united states communicate in english...

Ect,ect,ect...

Hmmmm? Its obvious to me that somethings or someones are playing mind games with us...

Just out of curiosity, is the building next to the crop circles manned 24 hours? If so, then surely there is no way a group of humans could have pulled this off under their noses....

Originally posted by 4hero
Just out of curiosity, is the building next to the crop circles manned 24 hours? If so, then surely there is no way a group of humans could have pulled this off under their noses....

Some of these crop circles are so intricate and precise,so elaborately laid out and structured theres no way that people on the ground could have been responsible for their creation...

And what about the "snow circles" that we more or less never hear about? They just melt away and are forgotten...

Somethings or someones are trying to communicate with us,maybe the earth itself and it might be trying to say,what are all of you doing to me?

If we tried to or had to,how would we be able to communicate with ants,who may be the most intelligent of all insects,what methods would we use? Would we re-arrange their little piles of sand and pebbles around their holes into distinct shapes and sizes? What would they think is going on? What would we be saying to them? Would they in return re-arrange them into other shapes and sizes to try and communicate back to us?

reply to post by Chadwickus


so you're telling me you actually agree with Kaku that the microwave energy (that I don't disagree is a part of the process) used to flash steam the stalks and weave them into patterns is done with a modified microwave oven? you're just as delusional as he

show me proof of how that is actually accomplished and I'll give you a lollipop

Originally posted by SheopleNation
Just so it's clear, Kaku said it's a "possibility" that modified microwave ovens or other things created some of these crop circles. He far from said that he believed 100% that this was the case. Personally, I would like to hear Sagan's opinion on them being that many more precise crop circles have turned up world-wide since he passed away. Unfortuantely, we will never get to hear his one of a kind, though still speculative opinion. ~SheopleNation

He is unable to deny the fact that microwave energy is involved and is purely speculating when he talks about microwave ovens with the doors removed. He says the plants will lean over, but that is a far cry from the patterns of weaving and overall designs we've seen. I agree there is microwave energy involved but I highly doubt it is possible to weave the stalks and produce such designs with his "technique". I think he's stretching the bounds of credibility and actually hurting the debunkers' claims that humans can do this.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by Chadwickus

 

so you're telling me you actually agree with Kaku that the microwave energy (that I don't disagree is a part of the process) used to flash steam the stalks and weave them into patterns is done with a modified microwave oven? you're just as delusional as he

show me proof of how that is actually accomplished and I'll give you a lollipop

I've seen it done on TV with a magnetron taken from a microwave oven. It was shielded with metal and used a flexible metal tube to direct the beam.

I've not seen anyone caryying an open microwave oven around in a field, though.

Harte

Interesting Harte. Going to try to see if i can find that on the web.

Great post and research regarding Sagan's possible 'error'. He certainly knew something, imho...

And, Chadwickus and I have been down this Crop Circle road, before...

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

Remember, we are supposed to believe these formations were created by a couple of drunk locals out for a laugh with planks of wood and string.

No we're not.

The groups who make crop circles are highly skilled and are very well prepared.

Don't underestimate what they're capable of.

We all learned very early on, that some of the more popular/known crop circle findings were in fact, made by drunk college kids (or two old men with planks and rope) with nothing better to do than pull a prank.

Then, there are the more sophisticated ones, that are SO elaborate and detailed in their geometric forming, that complex math and crop-moving techniques were assumed to have been used by 'others' to make this happen. Much to the chagrin of the starving 'aliens did it' community, even (some of) the most elaborate and complicated designs proved to be the work of talented, intelligent and industrious groups - some even being sponsored and/or directed by large companies for projects and competitions.

Our friend, Chad here, has thusly - and erroneously - assumed that, because we have witnessed EVERY type of crop-circle, in terms of complexity, being created by Humans, then, ALL must fall within the spectrum, and therefor made by humans.

A very dangerous and irresponsible leap to make. There are 100s that still remain unclaimed & unexplained. Period. End of argument.

S&F to you OP.
[There should really be a delete-a-star function for others. ]

I had to stop reading on page 15. I couldn't keep up with the off topics posts. Really, where is a mod when you need them.

Anyhow, thank you OP for opening my mind to all of this. It is very curious what that DNA number is. You said you had come to a conclusion and I was wondering what that is? (If you posted it after page 15, sorry I skipped it.) Also, did I see someone mention it may have been the population at the time?

Out of all of the crop circle debate I had a little giggle to myself thinking that maybe some are from aliens! Then I thought these people that are going out and making new ones don't even know they are "communicating" back with the aliens. Ha, we could be sending messages with very confusing data back at them unknowingly.

Originally posted by Doodle19815
I had to stop reading on page 15. I couldn't keep up with the off topics posts. Really, where is a mod when you need them.

...Also, did I see someone mention it may have been the population at the time?...

I don't know whether someone said it or not, but that IS likely what Sagan was trying to represent.

The Official World Population in 1975 was approximated to be just over 4 Billion. What was the discrepancy again...? [yeah]

Which doesn't mean he wasn't trying to say something - given the whole premise in the first place

maybe the earth itself and it might be trying to say,what are all of you doing to me?

Sent shivers down my spine when I read that.

Very nice thread OP. Some great info in there. I had seen the crop circle pictures before, but had never seen the 1974 transmitted message, which puts things into perspective IMO. To me it seems like an obvious reply.

There is a lot of uncertainty with crop circles. I believe some of the more complex ones are "real", ie. from ET origin. The majority of crop circles however I believe is part of a campaign to derail & obfuscate the public on the authenticity of them.

Originally posted by wirehead

If you sent the aliens a message where "24" represented "A", "25" represented "B", how the hell would you expect them to ever figure that out, let alone understand the english language?

If you sent a message to an alien species, would you have the foresight to encode it in their own digital computer storage standard (which is, by definition, a completely arbitrary code), written in their own language?

GET REAL!

Really? How the hell do archaeologists translate ancients texts & languages from civilizations long gone?

If this message was received & responded to, don't you think an ET race far more advanced than our own would have difficulty translating it? Even when our own race can translate languages long died out on Earth? To me it seems like childs play for an advanced race to translate our own language.

GET REAL!

Originally posted by Chadwickus
A quick summary for the late comers...

A binary radio message was sent into space with the hope of an alien race with similar technology would receive it, inexplicably the message was received by aliens, who then changed a few things on it, flew to earth and made a wonky crop circle out of it.

They thought this was a better way of replying, because sending a return message the same way they received it clearly didn't come into the equation.

Do you not think it is possible a return message was received & not disclosed?

Whether for matters of "National Security" or whatever reason you want to use, new technologies & information are denied from the public on a constant basis.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
To put it in earth terms, it would be like getting an email from your aunt on the other side of the planet asking how you are and you getting on a plane to fly 20+ hours, catching a bus to her town, then a taxi to her house to reply by writing "I'm good thanks, how are you?"on her front lawn.

Let's imagine for a moment that the universe is infinitely large & mostly empty space. Let's also imagine that physically traveling these vast distances through this space is somewhat time consuming, even for an advanced civilization of ETs. Imagine also, this race of ETs have a technology which means they can communicate or send a signal over large distances multiples of times faster than physically traveling these distances.

Is it so far fetched to believe they sent this message using some form of microwave technology that is faster than the speed of light which we have not discovered yet?

You can also entertain the possibility that they sent a probe to automatically imprint these imagines on suitable locations, similarly how we send probes to the outskirts of our own solar system, which are too long or too dangerous to physically travel.

Remember, the original destination of the 1974 transmitted message was a solar system 26,000 light years away!

Originally posted by Chadwickus
Clearly, these aliens aren't Vulcan...

The next point is Carl Sagan, he had nothing to do with the composing of this message, in fact he didn't even understand the DNA chemistry contained within the message!

Another ATS triumph full of mindless flagging and ignorant backslapping!

Think I might flag it too...baaaaah

C'mon, do you really have to stoop to sarcasm & trying to make the subject a matter to be laughed off as ridiculous?

Please take some of your own advice.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

Whenever I see disinfo at work (see above) I know we're on to something.

And here's meat and veg of it all.

An opposing view is not disinfo, please act like an adult and take on criticism with maturity.

reply to post by Harte

and what did the crop circle look like?

reply to post by Doodle19815

talk about off topic? go to my youtube page "bottleslingguy" and check out the background image

all of this back and forth why not simply park a ufo over a major city and be done with it - no more in the dark it may be a black project no one talks about ti I am talking about 3 in the afternoon right over NYC.

Many thanx to voidhawk and all, fascinating absolutely fantastic.

Originally posted by circuitsports
all of this back and forth why not simply park a ufo over a major city and be done with it - no more in the dark it may be a black project no one talks about ti I am talking about 3 in the afternoon right over NYC.

Patience grasshopper they will arrive soon.
But seriously Carl did not divulge all he knew. I have a sneaking suspicion that this all a Psy Ops or Black Ops. It is in the their interest to want us to believe that UFOs are Alien.
Why- to shield their own highly advanced beyound science fiction crafts. I have seen 2 UFOs with my own eyes - yet I think they are are Military. Crop circles also can be created by pranksters but also by undisclosed technology. For sure the Cosmos is teeming with other senteint beings though but from my studies even to UFOs closing down Nucluer Missile Bunkers - I feel it is Military Testing out their secret toys. And the secret elite who fund these projects have a code of honour - Hard to believe yes - This code is to "Hide the truth in plain view"