Tired of the Ron Paul Bandwagon???

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by mrgregbusybee

 

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until you mentioned "Deserved 9/11"

I'm not an avid Paul supporter. I think he has many pros, and many unseen cons. However, I've never seen or heard him say that America deserved 9/11. Quite the opposite.

But if you want to bash a man for pursuing answers to questions that weren't asked by others, then I guess the public should remain blind.

Research ron Paul and his beliefs on 9/11. That's all you have to do. He says america to a degree deserved the events that happened on 9/11. i wouldn't publicly bash something I made up. I have read it, more than once....it's been publicly discussed....

reply to post by sonnny1


Once again I do not feel NK, Iran, Or China are currently a greater threat to our nation than the current leaders (and I use that term loosely) held up in Washington DC.

You have a right to feel otherwise, but facts are on my side..

The simple fact is NK, Iran, have not harmed us in any way so far, but our current leaders have and are still trying..

Wanna dispute that fact?

I'm glad you think his foreign policy and golden rule will work. i hope for your sake he doesn't get into office...I don't think you'd know what to do if war was in your neighboring state.

Jesus stop being so melodramatic, name one country that can convey its powers on the US mainland ???

Originally posted by ker2010
You have a right to feel otherwise, but gacts are on my side..

We had a gacts once. It shed all over the sofa and love seat


We had to put it down.

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee

Ron Paul's view on foreign policy is as follows; If we aren't there causing problems, they won't have a reason to hate us or I want a policy of non-intervention, neutrality, & independence.

Well they don't hate us for our freedoms. If they did, why don't they attack Sweden? They are a lot more free than we are. They hate us because we are there. Read up on your history books, son. During the cold war, the middle east was a contested region between the west, and the soviets. We both fought for Afghanistan. Osama and his crew didn't want non-arabs there. So we armed Osama and his boys for they could kick out the soviets without us moving our troops in. After the soviets were gone, we moved there and never left. Then WE became the enemies.

Originally posted by mrgregbusybeeRon Paul believes that we, as a country, deserved...listen to me DESERVED the 9/11 attacks.

He has not once said this, ever. However the US Government's foreign policy is to blame.

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee If this man was president, here's what would happen within 1 year of office. We would be out of South Korea which will allow North Korea to overtake by force, South Korea.

Why should I care? I'm too busy being poor here and worrying how I'm going to pay my mortgage and feed my family. Why should I really care about South Korea? I don't see them sending money to us. We waste trillions of dollars around the world, while not taking care of our own. How stupid!

Originally posted by mrgregbusybeeIWithin the 1st year of office, Ron Paul would mind his own business and allow Iran to continue building or complete production of nuclear weapons. Paul would allow Israel to fend for themselves and we all know that Iran wants nothing more than to wipe Israel off the face of the planet.

Again, why should I care? Why should I vote for candidates that want to help other countries on the other side of the world, while our nation that I live in crumbles into debt and misery? And at any rate, Israel has enough nukes to wipe Iran off the map 10x over. Iran maybe has one small nuke soon and can only take out a small part of Israel. They wouldn't be foolish enough to attack Israel.

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee
How long do you think it will be before we have trouble knocking on our front door or better still, how long before you're in your front yard one day and see a rocket trail over head that is headed for a big city somewhere near you??

Will never happen... no country would ever be stupid enough to attack America.

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee
By that point our military will be so reduced and weak, we won't be able to protect our own coast lines. WAKE-UP people. Ron Paul is absolutely the worst candidate you can put in the white house, hell Obama is better left there than Ron Paul and that makes me puke to even think about Obama in office 4 more years.

Where do you get your ridiculous information? First off, bringing the troops home wouldn't make us weaker. Having the troops here protecting us instead of protecting other countries would make US STRONGER. Second, history has proven for thousands of years that when empires expand globally, they fall shortly thereafter. Alexander the great, constantine, atilla, caesar, etc.

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee
Newt Gingrich - The absolute smartest man in the campaign. There's no doubt he would turn our country around and no doubt that he would clean house in washington dc. Newts downfall is he is a one tracked man that is too narcissistic and doesn't know how to express himself in a manner that doesn't make him come off as an A$$hole. I don't think he would be bad for our country in any way. I don't think he would take any countries BS and he would make sure we once again become the #1 country in the world.

He's fine, if you support someone who has cheated on 2 different wives (asking for a divorce from the first while on her death bed with cancer), and got kicked off his speaker position by his own republican party for ethics violations. Just the type of trustworthy person for president! Let's take one of the most corrupt politicians in the country and give them a powerful position... Smart idea.

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee
Let's get some facts absolutely straight, the people that are riding and hoping for Ron Paul are anti-war, pro-drugs, anti-gay marriage. I'm going to break this down for you in one area and the only area that really matters regarding Ron Paul and WHY HE SHOULD NEVER BE PRESIDENT.

How cute, you say you want to get some facts straight right away, then instead of offering facts you offer opinion and call it facts. I am a Ron Paul supporter, that is no secret. I am not anti war. There are times when going to war is a necessity. I am against many of our current military actions however because we are not actually defending ourselves, we are attacking. There is a difference. I am also not pro drugs, but I believe our Federal drug policy is wrong. Guess what else? I am also not anti-gay marriage. I believe that gay people have every right to be as miserable as the rest of us. Government has no business being involved in marriage at all, not at the Federal level and not at the State level. If you wish to deal with real facts, try these facts on for size. Marriage is actually a religious ceremony and has nothing to do with Government. The ONLY reason why it is an issue in Government is because of our tax code. Married people get specific deductions that single people do not get.

Your view on Ron Paul's foreign policy is beyond silly and very simply put... untrue. You are correct in saying he would remove troops from foreign lands and bring them home. However your silly scenario that NK would attack SK and so on is just silly at best. First off all, South Korea is already a sitting duck. North Korea has artillery lining the boarder and they could absolutely destroy Seoul within a matter of minutes before anyone could prepare a counter attack. During the Korean War China did support North Korea and so did the Russians. However the fact is, this war never would have happened to begin with if it were not for the involvement of the US and the UN at the end of WW2. That being said, let us get back to present day. With the death of Kim Jong II I do not believe anyone can accurately say what NK would do if we pulled out our troops, not only that but today, we can have boots on the ground anywhere in the world within a couple days. There is no need to keep troops stationed overseas.

Going beyond that, I believe it weakens our military to be spread out so thin. Fact is, we have over 200,000 military spread out over 150 countries. We have more troops stationed in Germany, then we have in Hawaii. Why? What purpose does it serve us to be 50,000 + strong in Germany. What purpose does it serve to have 10,000 + in Italy? You talk about standing outside your home and seeing a missile fly overhead to a US City... what good does our 200,000 + troops spread out through Europe, Africa, the Middle East and Asia do for us in such a scenario? Are these Super Troops who can stop an attack from hundreds of thousands of miles away?

Ron Paul believes that we, as a country, deserved...listen to me DESERVED the 9/11 attacks.

This statement is an outright lie. Ron Paul does not believe that America "deserved" to be attack on 9/11. If you can show us anything where Ron Paul says this, please show it to us all. Ron Paul does believe that our Foreign Policy caused 9/11. You can disagree with that can say it is dangerous if you want, you are entitled to that opinion, but I hope to hear you say soon how dangerous the CIA is who coined the phrase "blowback" which is the foundation for Paul's opinion.

How long do you think it will be before we have trouble knocking on our front door or better still, how long before you're in your front yard one day and see a rocket trail over head that is headed for a big city somewhere near you?? By that point our military will be so reduced and weak, we won't be able to protect our own coast lines.

Really now? Let me ask you this.... who is watching our boarders now? Who is watching our coastlines now? The answer is NO ONE!!! There is so much violence on our Southern Boarder with Mexico it is insane. Fairly recently there was what appeared to be a missile fired right off the California coast. They now claim it was airplane, and who knows.. maybe it was. The point however is, how long did it take for the Military to explain what had happened? Had anyone been watching our own airspace off our own coastline, we would have had an immediate answer.

And why would there be no one to watch the boarders or coastline if we brought our troops home? Would our troops just disappear? Bringing our Military home to our own soil, would not make our Military weaker, if would be stronger! They would be HERE and actually in a position to DEFEND this country instead of being in a position to defend other countries.

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by mrgregbusybee

 

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until you mentioned "Deserved 9/11"

I'm not an avid Paul supporter. I think he has many pros, and many unseen cons. However, I've never seen or heard him say that America deserved 9/11. Quite the opposite.

But if you want to bash a man for pursuing answers to questions that weren't asked by others, then I guess the public should remain blind.

Research ron Paul and his beliefs on 9/11. That's all you have to do. He says america to a degree deserved the events that happened on 9/11. i wouldn't publicly bash something I made up. I have read it, more than once....it's been publicly discussed....

Yet it has been so publicly discussed that you still don't understand that he never said we deserved 9/11. If you really researched this topic like you said you did, you would understand that his sentiments toward 9/11 is that INTELLIGENCE (DoD, CIA, Pentagon, 9/11 commission report) ALL AGREE with his statements that our foreign policy was a MAJOR factor in all of this.

You have been caught on quite a few 'fibs' (being nice to you here) in this thread yet still continue to further spread more.

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by mrgregbusybee

 

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until you mentioned "Deserved 9/11"

I'm not an avid Paul supporter. I think he has many pros, and many unseen cons. However, I've never seen or heard him say that America deserved 9/11. Quite the opposite.

But if you want to bash a man for pursuing answers to questions that weren't asked by others, then I guess the public should remain blind.

Research ron Paul and his beliefs on 9/11. That's all you have to do. He says america to a degree deserved the events that happened on 9/11. i wouldn't publicly bash something I made up. I have read it, more than once....it's been publicly discussed....

are you aware of the things that America has done around the world? do you have any idea how many innocent people have been killed, not only that, but how many governments(whether elected or not) have been overthrown by the U.S? if you actually looked into what the world thinks of our so called great nation, it is US that are seen as unstable and a threat to world peace. the U.S. is always in someone elses business, and if its not troops on the ground, its us funding one side or the other. you cant sit over there and tell me the U.S. is almighty and perfect and wants nothing but freedom for everyone. we attack people and nations on a regular basis, and then when we get attacked you want to say it was uncalled for? get out of your little box of nationalism and look at the world from a larger point of view.

Originally posted by ker2010


The simple fact is NK, Iran, have not harmed us in any way so far, but our current leaders have and are still trying..

Wanna dispute that fact?

I have ONLY talked about Korea.

So heres the FACTS.

US Korean War deaths-54,229

But I am sure you will find an excuse to dispute it,like it happened long ago.

Or maybe our presence there,has stopped those numbers from rising dramatically,including stopping South Korean deaths from happening......




I wont hold my breath.

Originally posted by SGTSECRET

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee

Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by mrgregbusybee

 

have you ever served your country??

No, and how is this relevant? But Ron Paul has!

so you don't know what patriotism is... you don't understand sacrifice and you haven't seen sacrifice first hand. the reason i ask and it's relevence is because of your comment, "IDGAF" ... you would give a f*ck if you served.

i AM currently serving and in South Korea right now. your whole 'sacrifice and then you will give a f*ck' argument is ridiculous. you dont have to be in the military to understand what is going on around the world. i have been in the active duty Army for almost 7 years and believe Ron Pauls foreign policy is right on. we dont need troops everywhere just for the hell of it, and fighting pointless, yes POINTLESS(ive been there) wars has not made us any safer of a nation. Paul wants to bring troops home and not waste lives and $$$ on b.s.

I will attempt to address you young soldier with as much respect as I can find. Have we been asked to go fight for our country under false hoods and lies, yes we have. Do you even know why your presence is required on S. Korea? It's not because you wear the uniform and pose a threat, quite the opposite actually. You are trained on the DMZ and you are well aware that the estimated time that you pose a legitimate threat is less than 3 minutes. But you are NOT there for that reason. You are a pawn in the larger scheme of things. If N Korea attacks S. Korea tonight while you're in your rack sleeping or off base drinking....you will be a casualty of war. That enables our government to do whatever we want in-turn to North Korea because they instigated an act of war against US soldiers. You are there for diplomatic reasons.

Last time i checked this was a volunteer army. 7 years I'm assuming you've re-enlisted 1 time already. you sitting there saying we aren't any safer of a nation right now than we were 11, 12 years ago is not a fact. even the Ron Paul lovers that at least manage to retain some sense when it comes to war, foreign policy and our future will tell you that we are a safer country today because of our military efforts, even if they were under a lie initially. I'm ashamed to have read your comment...that you would support for everybody to pack up and come home, f*ck everybody else....let them defend their selves. That's not what you signed up for and if you made a mistake by signing up, you should have damn sure not re-upped my friend.

May God keep you protected during your time of service and I hope you carefully think about the future you want as a soldier and as an American.

reply to post by mrgregbusybee


I don't think you understand that our country is run by a bunch of fascists. The only reason they want to invade, and conquer Iran is because of the oil. The propaganda spewed by the mainstream media has infected your mind. The first thing they'll do, if they go to war and win, is to set up a central bank controlled by the international bankers, and to take control of the oil supply. It's all about the money. Always has been, always will be. Ron Paul recognizes this. Remember Iraq? We went to war because we thought they possessed weapons of mass destruction. They didn't. If there was solid evidence that Iran had nuclear weapons, and planned on attacking us or our allies, I would support it, but the fact is...there is no evidence.

Originally posted by SGTSECRET

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by mrgregbusybee

 

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until you mentioned "Deserved 9/11"

I'm not an avid Paul supporter. I think he has many pros, and many unseen cons. However, I've never seen or heard him say that America deserved 9/11. Quite the opposite.

But if you want to bash a man for pursuing answers to questions that weren't asked by others, then I guess the public should remain blind.

Research ron Paul and his beliefs on 9/11. That's all you have to do. He says america to a degree deserved the events that happened on 9/11. i wouldn't publicly bash something I made up. I have read it, more than once....it's been publicly discussed....

are you aware of the things that America has done around the world? do you have any idea how many innocent people have been killed, not only that, but how many governments(whether elected or not) have been overthrown by the U.S? if you actually looked into what the world thinks of our so called great nation, it is US that are seen as unstable and a threat to world peace. the U.S. is always in someone elses business, and if its not troops on the ground, its us funding one side or the other. you cant sit over there and tell me the U.S. is almighty and perfect and wants nothing but freedom for everyone. we attack people and nations on a regular basis, and then when we get attacked you want to say it was uncalled for? get out of your little box of nationalism and look at the world from a larger point of view.

There will Never be world peace...there has never been world peace....ever. wake up. NO, we should not be interfering and trying to assist in liberating countries and doing 60 day war missions.... however; we as a country can NOT pull out all our troops from around the world and bring them back home and not feel the repercussions of such a ridiculous act. that's what the golden rule says to do.....it's impossible

Originally posted by ker2010

I'm glad you think his foreign policy and golden rule will work. i hope for your sake he doesn't get into office...I don't think you'd know what to do if war was in your neighboring state.

Jesus stop being so melodramatic, name one country that can convey its powers on the US mainland ???

Australia, Israel, EU, China, Japan, India, and Canada would they? Probably not but they could. Though realistically if a country wanted to tear us apart China could call in our debt (admittedly not very likely being as we are the majority of the reason they have a quickly growing middle class and Masses of manufacturing jobs) Though give it say 30 years and China's wages will grow to rival ours and we will either move manufacturing jobs back here or prices will increase dramatically. We are not all powerful and Our military might doesn't truly protect us as much as we would like to think it does. Launch 10 Nukes at this country right now, and 5 would land crippling us as a people. We'd be done, mutually assured destruction or not we'd still be crippled.

I have ONLY talked about Korea.

So heres the FACTS.

US Korean War deaths-54,229

But I am sure you will find an excuse to dispute it,like it happened long ago.

Or maybe our presence there,has stopped those numbers from rising dramatically,including stopping South Korean deaths from happening......

I wont hold my breath.

Yes and whites enslaved backs and killed native Americans i guess we are still a threat to them to?

Way to bring up the past. CURRENTLY who is doing harm to (THIS COUNTRY) NK or our elected leaders?

Please dont dodge the question just answer it.

Heck here are just a few

Our Leaders:
Over spending / bankruptcy
TSA pat downs
Patriot Act
Corporate Bail Outs
Bringing forth bills like s1877/ SOPA

Ok how is NK harming us now

(your list here)

Originally posted by eLPresidente

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by mrgregbusybee

 

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until you mentioned "Deserved 9/11"

I'm not an avid Paul supporter. I think he has many pros, and many unseen cons. However, I've never seen or heard him say that America deserved 9/11. Quite the opposite.

But if you want to bash a man for pursuing answers to questions that weren't asked by others, then I guess the public should remain blind.

Research ron Paul and his beliefs on 9/11. That's all you have to do. He says america to a degree deserved the events that happened on 9/11. i wouldn't publicly bash something I made up. I have read it, more than once....it's been publicly discussed....

Yet it has been so publicly discussed that you still don't understand that he never said we deserved 9/11. If you really researched this topic like you said you did, you would understand that his sentiments toward 9/11 is that INTELLIGENCE (DoD, CIA, Pentagon, 9/11 commission report) ALL AGREE with his statements that our foreign policy was a MAJOR factor in all of this.

You have been caught on quite a few 'fibs' (being nice to you here) in this thread yet still continue to further spread more.

fibs? did the man not state that america deserved what happened to it on 9/11? did those words or words similar to that come from the mans mouth? yes or no

fibs? i don't believe i have lied at all sir. When I was wrong about allies I admitted and said so. I am trying to respond to each of you because all of you have taken the time to address the thread and it's only respectful of me to provide you responses where required. if my information has been down right wrong...then my research of the subject has failed me. but personally, lied...i don't lie. I have no reason to lie here. i'm not here bashing RP...I disagree with his foreign policy stance and have told my reasons why and my argument as to what i believe could happen if he was in office and the golden rule went into affect in november....again, if i'm dead wrong on something...that isn't an opinion based fact...please bring it to my attention....in this thread and in any future threads. i do not believe in bashing for no reason or lying for an ulterior motive. I'm not a politician....

reply to post by mrgregbusybee

Then get off of it. Enjoy your own path.

This is the nature of the universe. The sooner we realize this, the better for all of us.

Ron Paul is a symbol... nothing more. Even if he were elected, nothing important would happen if we don't each individually take up the reigns of finally learning how to manage ourselves, our homes, and our immediate communities. Our bodies do not survive via a President, but by a solidarity of unity via fundamentally different organs using the difference in each component to create a bigger "whole" (with the brain (aka "government") being no more important than the heart/skin/stomach/etc) .

This is ultimately what Ron Paul "preaches". The specifics are the *least* important aspects of the view that is evolving (or perhaps *re*evolving). The fundamental aspect is the (re)emergence of the primacy of the Golden Rule. Treat Others As You Would Have Them Treat You. Period. End of Story. No further discussion needed.

If a person desires murder and violence... seek an outlet for them. They will discover on their own why this only ends in pain. No amount of education or "prevention" will help. None. Not... at... all.

Righteousness breeds... in fact... *creates*... Unrighteousness.

Those who wish to rape and pillage and plunder in a truly free society have no success. Only in a society where words "aka law" trump truth "aka experience" can someone rape and pillage and plunder under the protection of the Illusion of Law.

We have the option to stop being scared children afraid of our darkness and trying to "make it all go away". Understanding the darkness potential without ourselves is what makes the darkness go away... not suppression and repression. That only amplifies and perpetuates what is trying to be "eradicated".

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee

Originally posted by eLPresidente

Originally posted by mrgregbusybee

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by mrgregbusybee

 

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until you mentioned "Deserved 9/11"

I'm not an avid Paul supporter. I think he has many pros, and many unseen cons. However, I've never seen or heard him say that America deserved 9/11. Quite the opposite.

But if you want to bash a man for pursuing answers to questions that weren't asked by others, then I guess the public should remain blind.

Research ron Paul and his beliefs on 9/11. That's all you have to do. He says america to a degree deserved the events that happened on 9/11. i wouldn't publicly bash something I made up. I have read it, more than once....it's been publicly discussed....

Yet it has been so publicly discussed that you still don't understand that he never said we deserved 9/11. If you really researched this topic like you said you did, you would understand that his sentiments toward 9/11 is that INTELLIGENCE (DoD, CIA, Pentagon, 9/11 commission report) ALL AGREE with his statements that our foreign policy was a MAJOR factor in all of this.

You have been caught on quite a few 'fibs' (being nice to you here) in this thread yet still continue to further spread more.

fibs? did the man not state that america deserved what happened to it on 9/11? did those words or words similar to that come from the mans mouth? yes or no

Uh.....NOPE. He didn't.


This is known, not even the MSM try to attack him on this. He BLAMES the government/foreign policy/military industrial complex and he is CORRECT, like intelligence proves him tobe. He DOES NOT BLAME America or Americans. He NEVER said America or Americans deserved 9/11.

Originally posted by ker2010


Yes and whites enslaved backs and killed native Americans i guess we are still a threat to them to?

Way to bring up the past. CURRENTLY who is doing harm to (THIS COUNTRY) NK or our elected leaders?

Please dont dodge the question just answer it.

edit on 23-1-2012 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)

Lets revisit your "unedited" quote.........

Originally posted by ker2010
The simple fact is NK, Iran, have not harmed us in any way so far, but our current leaders have and are still trying..

Wanna dispute that fact?

Lets revisit my answer........

I have ONLY talked about Korea.

So heres the FACTS.

US Korean War deaths-54,229

Not only did I give you a FACTUAL answer,I gave you your own response!!!!!


But I am sure you will find an excuse to dispute it,like it happened long ago.

This IS the twilight zone of ATS...............

BTW,its really frowned upon to edit your posts,after someone spanks you with gacts.

What a nice propaganda post veiled under the title of a question for the masses. You really should have gone for something shorter and not been so bold about your support of the other candidates if you wanted to change any opinions.

C -

And no, i'm not tired of the bandwagon because out of all the GOP candidates - and Obama (I voted for him last round) - Ron Paul is the only one that doesn't appear to be corrupted by the corporations.

OP, I don't think you really understand RP's foreign policy at all. He is not against going to war as long as it's declared by congress like the constitution requires. While I will agree that he's a bit vague on the particulars of his foreign policy overall, I don't think he would abandon our allies like you suggest. He is simply against invading countries without declaring war, especially based on perceived (or manufactured) threats that don't exist.

Let's say Iran does produce a nuclear weapon and the intel is solid (ha!). I think he would certainly consider taking it away from them as long as congress approves a declaration of war against them. This gives the US legal authority under our constitution to kick some ass.