Uproar after Jewish American newspaper publisher suggests Israel assassinate Barack Obama

Originally posted by dontreally

You're talking to someone with ample knowledge of this subject.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as a Palestinian people.

I'm talking to someone with Biased Opinions.

Please sir, your opinion is valid to you, as mine is to me.

You will use any way to twist and pervert the truth to your end.

Maybe if you could acknowledge one atrocity, and there have been lots to choose from, your opinion would have weight, but you don't ever.

Your just a shill spreading disinformation.

But I do enjoy your commitment .

reply to post by Tw0Sides

I'm talking to someone with Biased Opinions.

That post wasn't addressed to you.

And to be fair, were all biased, to some degree.

You will use any way to twist and pervert the truth to your end.

In what way have I 'perverted' or 'twisted' the truth? What a remarkable statement! First, that you assume to know the truth, and second, that you think I've perverted it.

If were going to discuss 'truth', what precisely are you referring to? The Palestinian-Israel conflict? Zionism? Is this what I'm perverting? Is this my bias in this discussion?

Maybe if you could acknowledge one atrocity, and there have been lots to choose from, your opinion would have weight, but you don't ever.

Oh please... go back to the leftist university that indoctrinated you into believing that nonsense. What atrocities? What nation state hasn't acted like Israel has? Or better yet, which nation state has a law called "the purity of arms"? Find me another military that conducts a "moral war". Which risks it's own casualties to avoid killing civilians.

You and everyone else here on the anti-israel bandwagon are ignoramuses.

Perhaps we are seeing examples of the "pseudo-(everything)" complex on all sides.

pseudo-Judaists
pseudo-Zionists
pseudo-Islamists
psuedo-Palestinians
pseudo-Arabs
pseudo-Persians
pseudo-Christians
pseudo-Anythingisms

All fighting each other?, or all fighting together?

And then we have the vast majority of all who are not "pseudo" anything.

One big Gorton's Knot.

and BTW, my assumption about this mans intentions are perfectly valid.

Anyone who reads political philosophy or activist books, such as 'rules for radicals' knows how convoluted and abstract reasoning processes can go in the political world. In ontological terms, there are 'spheres within spheres', i.e. coverings within coverings. Not very often are things as they appear, but rather, more often than not, situations are concocted to create the perception in the minds of the formless masses, in order to achieve a political victory.

This victory is clearly the anti-zionist sentiment (feeling, or perception, in the wider public) that so many Jews the world over, and America especially, want to imbue in the masses. The more people that hate Israel - the symbol of everything that is 'backwards', in some peoples heads, will be done to achieve.

There's nothing shocking about thinking that this man, clearly an educated man, since he runs a newspaper, has a thinking process that is "sophisticated". That he is way too educated and knowledgeable to have written what he did and not foresee the consequences.


Only the unsophisticated have trouble seeing it.

reply to post by xuenchen


What are you talking about?

reply to post by dontreally

In what dimension are you referring to? Is this a parallel dimension where Jews and Arabs aren't fighting to the death for sole control of the land of Israel?

European Jews who migrated to that piece of land around 70 years ago are fighting for exclusive control of the land and they are being resisted, and rightly so, by the others.

The Palestinians, not in the slightest bit, have come to terms with Israel. That is, I'm sorry to use such strong language, idiotically absurd. Look at the PLO/Fatah and Hamas. These two groups 'represent' the Palestinian people, and NEITHER acknowledges the Jewish state in its constitution.

I never said they accept Zionism. They don't and they shouldn't. You suggested a post-Zionist state and I said that is acceptable to Palestinians. I have never seen Israel offer a democratic state in the whole of historic Palestine or even the truncated Palestine (that is excluding Jordan from the historic, Ottoman province, Palestine), which is what I expect a post-Zionist state to look like. So how do you figure that is not acceptable to Palestinians?

You're talking to someone with ample knowledge of this subject.

So are you.

If any party is willing to make peace, it's Israel.

Sure they do. But Palestinians want justice before peace. There is absolutely no justice in accepting a Zionist state of Israel. If Israel ceased being Zionist, as you are proposing, peace will come automatically. If they don't care to be Zionist, they should have no problem accepting a one state solution in what is today Israel-Palestine. That will be the test of their giving up Zionism.

One can argue from multiple perspectives who 'the land' belongs to. If the Jews have no right to it, neither should the Palestinians.

I think I have already seen all these "perspectives".

For 2 millenia the Jews have wandered throughout the Middle East, North Africa, Eastern and Western Europe, landless, without a nation, because of the sins of today's temporal powers, which derive it political, religious and cultural institutions from ancient Rome and Greece. Has this been remedied? Has anyone sought to rectify what was done to this people that has gone landless for 2000 years?

I know that Jews were expelled from Jerusalem by the Romans, but don't know of anyone preventing them from returning to Jerusalem, if they so chose, after the collapse of the Roman Empire. May be you can provide sources for that, if they exist?

The founding premise of the Jewish state is the fact that Jews have NEVER been able to live in peace, aside from the rather placid, though misleading last 70 years, in their entire existence.

That is not completely true. I know of at least one place where Jews lived in peace without any persecution for all the time they lived there. This was acknowledged by Ariel Sharon in a visit to that country.

But I do acknowledge that in most of the world where conformist mentality runs supreme, especially Europe, Jews had a very bad time.

But that is not exclusive to Jews. Roma faced and continue to face persecution and prejudice from the rest of the Europeans. But unlike Jews they don't seem to forever make others feel guilty about what happened to them or continues to happen to them.

Thus, Herzl argued that Jews, like all people, needed a land.

As if land is something that is produced

How about a "homeland" for the Roma? Where are you going to find the land for it?

The people of France live in France. The people of Germany live in Germany.

That's right. But they are the people of France and Germany, respectively. Meaning people who had already been there with unbroken links to the past generations of similar people or people who came in peacefully and had been accepted. Their right to live there doesn't come magically from their speaking a language, having a particular culture, belonging to a faith or claims of having ancestral links to the land but broken by centuries or even millennia.

The Speakers of Hebrew, and followers of Judaism and carriers of Jewish custom, which despite geographical disparity, are still so much alike, don't deserve to be reunited with their ancestral home and place of their formation and birth?

That's like asking if the speakers of English, followers of Christianity and carrying the English traditions which despite geographical disparity are still so mcuh alike, don't they all deserve to be reunited with their ancestral home and place of formation and birth? Yeah, lets put all the Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders of English ancestry back in England, because that is what they deserve! (Frankly I don't mind that in the case of the English though )

Contd..

reply to post by Observor

...Contd

Originally posted by dontreally
I don't care how long it is. In fact, by virtue of their continued reflection and devotion to returning to the land of Israel, i.e. praying 3 times a day towards physical Jerusalem, while Muslims pray towards Mecca (and have their asses facing Jerusalem, if they live in the city) the Passover and Yom Kippur benediction "next year in Jerusalem", all this justifies the fidelity and and sincerity of their claim to Israel.

Let us say I buy the logic, not as an exclusive right to Jewish diaspora over Palestine, but for Palestinians to accomodate a return en masse of the Jewish diaspora.

You would still have to prove that the Jewish diaspora throughout history had attempted to return to Palestine but were prevented from doing so by those in control of Palestine since the Roman expulsion of Jews from Jerusalem.

Can you do that?

If not, their claim of wanting to return to their ancestral homeland for two millennia is hollow and all those repetitions are merely rituals.

In my opinion, there is no such thing as a Palestinian people. Factually, they didn't exist before 1947. But even post '47, which many argue when the national consciousness was formed (thanks to a lie) is no where near strong enough or legitimate enough to compete with the Jewish conviction which is 4000 years old, and rests in biblical prophecy.

The right of Palestinians to that land doesn't come from being some "people", it comes from their having unbroken and uncontested ownership of it. I don't care what they like to describe themselves as or what others like to describe them as and whether the term is two years old or two thousand years old. Most of the identities in the Middle East by which they are referred to today were created after the dissolution of the Ottomon empire. That doesn't mean they don't have right to the lands they live on.

I stand by the Jews because I believe they have a clear right to the land. Arabs can live anywhere in the middleast and have little to no problem assimilating in their new countries.

So basically Jews have a right to Palestine because they cannot assimilate with others and need a land for themselves and claim Palestine, but Palestinians themselves have no right to that land because they can assimilate with other Arabs?

Your concept of right to a land is very interesting, to say the least.

Originally posted by isthisreallife
These newspaper writers obviously don't understand the complexities of the United States Secret Service.

At this point, I believe it would take one helluva a plot to even get close enough to kill the President. The USSS is one of the most highly trained, highly disciplined and most technologically advanced law enforcement agencies in the world.

I think they'd give Mossad a run for their money.

As for the plot itself, completely ridiculous.

Israel has infiltrated every country on Earth. If they wanted the US President dead, he would be dead.

The reason they get free Billions from us every year is because they get dirt on our politicians, Generals, Admirals and blackmail them to keep getting free Billions.

YOU nor anyone else in the United States can stop Israel from doing S-Q-U-A-T.

What happened after Israel attacked the USS Liberty and killed all those sailors aboard her?....NOTHING. Besides Israelis doing a dance after they landed that they killed Americans....again.

reply to post by Observor


Jeez, if that was your interpretation then you really need to get an education my friend - unfortunately in the USA thats almost an impossibility!

reply to post by Pervius


Wow, and ya think the CIA has'nt infilitrated every nation on earth too?

If Israel has the goods on certain persons of interest in the US Federal Govt then what does that tell you? Not much about your politicians that you fools are so quick to elect and re-elect!

What happened when the US attacked the HMAS Hobart during Vietnam? Not much, actually, nothing at all!

I think you mean god save the world....

Originally posted by xuenchen

Adler, who has since apologized for his article, listed three options for Israel to counter Iran’s nuclear weapons in an article published in his newspaper last Friday. The first is to launch a pre-emptive strike against Hamas and Hezbollah, the second is to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities and the third is to “give the go-ahead for U.S.-based Mossad agents to take out a president deemed unfriendly to Israel in order for the current vice president to take his place and forcefully dictate that the United States’ policy includes its helping the Jewish state obliterate its enemies.”

You mean there are really Mossad networks of agents right here in River City

God help us

God save the USA

edit on Jan-20-2012 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)

edit on Jan-20-2012 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)