What Roman Catholicism, Islam, Paganism, the Masons, Knights Templars and Jesuits have in common.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Why did Jesus command his Apostles to go preach the good news if the people already had Christ in them? You make no sense! Youre being decieved and for the love of Christ i am unable to open your eyes.

This is the good news. Christ in you. You say you follow Christ but you judge and your judgment spreads hate. Who makes no sense?

Ephesians 3:1-11 For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you, how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the MYSTERY OF CHRIST, , which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been REVEALED to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that the GENTILES ARE FELLOW HEIRS, MEMBERS OF THE SAME BODY, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus BEFORE THE AGES BEGAN

Colossians 1 24:27 24 26 This message was kept SECRET FOR CENTURIES AND GENERATIONS PAST, but now it has been revealed to God’s people. 27 For God wanted them to know that the riches and glory of Christ are for you Gentiles, too. And this is the secret: CHRIST LIVES IN YOU. This gives you assurance of sharing his glory.

Read these verses, before the ages began the secret for centuries and generations past was Christ lives in you. His spirit lived in all who loved before he came as man. He is the one who was, and is, and is to come. He is the SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY AND TOMORROW. He lives in the Gentiles, who today are the non believers.

1 John 4:18 there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Do you see what is being said here? No one loves out of fear. The interpretation that you have accepted is the message of fear. No one’s love can be made perfect through fear.

You see become a Christian or good to hell is a message of fear, definitely not good news. If it was good news why is everyone telling you, you are filled with hate?

The good news is all who love are born with Christ. We are all the same. We are all loved equally by God. This is good news. Even those that reject what I say know that what I say is out of love for them. Love leads to love and God is love. Judgment leads to hate and God is not hate.

Stop accepting the Catholic version of the trinity. You can believe however you want about the 3 being one but they are also separate. The word became flesh. Jesus is the word. Everyone who is born with love, knows in there heart that they should love their neighbor as themselves. This proves that the word is on their heart. Jesus is the word.

There are 3 gifts separate gifts. If there were only 1 or even 2 why would the bible teach 3?

The father, who we wish to please and fear being separated from, this is what brings us to Grace.

The son, whom is the word. All know that love is the correct path, because they have the word.

The Holy Spirit- this is a special gift that only true followers of Christ can receive. If we believe the message and we accept the challenge to die to sin we will receive this special gift. The baptism of the Holy Spirit and be born again.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he REWARDS THOSE WHO SEEK HIM.

Ephesians 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

John 3:3-12 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ ...

Let me give you my opinion on being born again. Being born again is truly the separation of your spirit from your flesh. When one is born again the desire to sin dies. This does not mean that sin does not still live in them, for evil thoughts still enter my mind, but the desire to follow the sinful thoughts is dead. I am no longer controlled by flesh because I my spirit and flesh are no longer one.

I hold that this happens to all at death, therefore allowing God the opportunity to be the only Judge. When one dies the flesh and the spirit separate. For believers we can experience this while we are still alive.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

The interpretation that you have accepted causes you to be boastful, because you were chosen. When you can accept the word, Jesus is in all who love, you will be humbled. Because then you ask God why me? I am humbled everyday by what I know. For some reason while I will still a sinner God choose to reveal himself to me. When I post, most people can see that I am humbled by the knowledge that I have. I am proud of my Father and his Son, and sometimes this pride can come across as righteousness. This is why I try to include in my posts that I am no better than anyone else. I consider myself the least of God’s servants.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 Timothy 4:10 ESV / 4 helpful votes
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

Colossians 3:11 ESV / 4 helpful votes
Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.

This is why Jesus says that God is a righteous judge, because all were born with the word. This is the good news. Even the good news some will reject. I AM NOT ADVOCATING UNIVERSALLISM. When someone does not believe me that Christ is in them. I simply ask do you at least believe that the message of love Christ teaches is the way we should all live? I have yet to find someone who disagrees with Christ.

They may not accept him as their savior but they can still follow the way of love that he teaches. He is the way, and because he offers forgiveness, even to those who speak against him, it is absolutely imperative that we spread the loving message and leave non believers with the fundamentals of love, so that Jesus can forgive them. If they see the love in us and the love we have for them, maybe they will accept the message later.

2 Corinthians 5:18-20 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

We are being called to be ministers of the truth. But the truth is all who know love, have the word written on their heart. This word is the Spirit of the Son. What we are being called to do is bring them to repentance and to accept the Grace that Jesus has already offered them. Knowing that Christ is in them should bring even more zeal to your ministry, because now you know why you need to love your enemy, even more than your brother. God promises 3 gifts. Everyone who knows love has the first 2. Even though I hold to my theory that all have the chance to be saved in the time of judgment it is only those who are baptized by the Holy Spirit while alive that enter the Kingdom of Heaven and never taste death. The Kingdom is within us who believe.

I am not advocating that you say Christ is in you, this means you go to heaven. What the bible says is Christ is in you now act like you are his temple. Anyone who fails to follow the word of love written on their hearts will be in danger of being on the outside looking in. This is why I try to leave unbelievers with the word of love and encourage them to listen to it. Even though they have not accepted salvation while alive, I pray that the message of love I leave with them encourages them to be better so that they may not fall short on the Day of Judgment. This is the good news and it is not universalism. Christ is in all but not all will be found in Christ.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

If "hating" in your book is merely disagreeing with, then aren't you "hating" here in this thread? You imply if we Christians disagree with different faiths or philosophies then we are "hating" them.

No I am following the word of God. Anyone who claims to be a Christian but still passes judgment on others needs to be corrected by a fellow brother. The bible says that we are to rebuke our brothers who are in error. If I did not love him I would not keep replying and trying to show him how to love the way Christ is calling all Christians are called to love. I know he loves and I simply pray that he will accept that he has not loved either his neighbor or his enemy.

He also says that one can know which brother is correct by their fruits. If you read the replies the non believer accepts my message with love, but his message with hate. The fruit of my message is love. This is how one knows that the message is from God.

reply to post by sacgamer25

They may not accept him as their savior but they can still follow the way of love that he teaches. He is the way, and because he offers forgiveness, even to those who speak against him, it is absolutely imperative that we spread the loving message and leave non believers with the fundamentals of love, so that Jesus can forgive them. If they see the love in us and the love we have for them, maybe they will accept the message later.

sacgamer,
you make such good sense on so many -- nay, ALL the important levels. Please understand that those who may not see Christ as the ONLY route do not by inference speak AGAINST him.
On the contrary, it's absolutely the opposite. I believe in everything he taught, all of it. I have never denounced him in any way as being less than an extraordinary, exemplary, wise, and spirit-filled person.

If only you could leave out the part that implies those who are walking in the Spirit and see themselves as equally saved and loved without saying Jesus is the only way are doomed.....honestly, that's the only offputting part of your otherwise wonderful message.

All paths lead to the same place. It is up to each individual to look within, to find the unique, loving, understanding way to awaken to this universal truth. We are all born with the potential, no matter how dim the spark, or how ferocious the flame...we will all, in the end, get there. It does require being born again, yes. Over and over and over. Literally, on earth or in some other place where mortal beings also dwell.

Peace.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by vogon42

 

Its not hate. It's called profound sadness because you people are pissing all over my King.

Really sounds like anger to me, rather than sadness.

But then again you have yet to respond to my question about your church.....so I'm waiting for the info to try and understand the perspective.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

They may not accept him as their savior but they can still follow the way of love that he teaches. He is the way, and because he offers forgiveness, even to those who speak against him, it is absolutely imperative that we spread the loving message and leave non believers with the fundamentals of love, so that Jesus can forgive them. If they see the love in us and the love we have for them, maybe they will accept the message later.

sacgamer,
you make such good sense on so many -- nay, ALL the important levels. Please understand that those who may not see Christ as the ONLY route do not by inference speak AGAINST him.
On the contrary, it's absolutely the opposite. I believe in everything he taught, all of it. I have never denounced him in any way as being less than an extraordinary, exemplary, wise, and spirit-filled person.

If only you could leave out the part that implies those who are walking in the Spirit and see themselves as equally saved and loved without saying Jesus is the only way are doomed.....honestly, that's the only offputting part of your otherwise wonderful message.

All paths lead to the same place. It is up to each individual to look within, to find the unique, loving, understanding way to awaken to this universal truth. We are all born with the potential, no matter how dim the spark, or how ferocious the flame...we will all, in the end, get there. It does require being born again, yes. Over and over and over. Literally, on earth or in some other place where mortal beings also dwell.

Peace.

edit on 22-1-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

I am sorry if it sounds like I imply that only those who believe are loved and saved. I would never want anyone to think this. I do believe that there is a special gift to those who accept Christ as the son of God and the bible as the truth, but I don’t believe the gift makes me special. I hope that makes since.

I believe that following the love that is within us is the most important command and so did Jesus. I believe that the will of the father is to follow the love that is within us.

Jesus says two things that make me believe that I will see you with my father. He says that if you don’t believe in him he will forgive you. And also he says whoever does the will of the father is his sister. You do follow the message of Christ in the bible, as well as anyone can.

I think the one thing where we differ is I do believe that there will be a time where all face judgment. I’m not sure that someone who has rejected the law of love will be in the same place as those who have loved. I believe that this is a fair judgment for God has made love known to all.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Jesus says two things that make me believe that I will see you with my father. He says that if you don’t believe in him he will forgive you. And also he says whoever does the will of the father is his sister. You do follow the message of Christ in the bible, as well as anyone can.

Thanks. There, that was beautifully put...the only 'edit' I would make is in the phrase "believe in him."
Leave out "in", and we are exactly on the same page. See you there, brother!

I think the one thing where we differ is I do believe that there will be a time where all face judgment. I’m not sure that someone who has rejected the law of love will be in the same place as those who have loved. I believe that this is a fair judgment for God has made love known to all.

I'm sorry if that is how you interpreted my ideology. I absolutely do think we will all face judgment; we do so every time our corporeal body dies; we endure in equal measure the pain and suffering we have inflicted - we reap what we sowed; then, we reach atonement (at-one-ment) again, and prepare for the next cycle; the next lesson. This will generally not be immediately; every soul while in ethereal form as a chance to rest, reflect, regroup, and reconsider what experience or lessons they need in order to move forward. Then, we are born again.

Peace

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

 

You make it sound like the Jesuits were killers.

They are but of course they need some sort of cover to make them seem as if they also serve some other legitimate purpose. Wikipedia is only going to give you the whitewashed version.

Well lady or sir, if you think Wikipedia is whitewashing this you are nuts. I suppose you think the Catholic Church controls Wikipedia?

I specifically picked a neutral information source.

Why don't you show me some valid neutral source it you think Wikipedia is trying to re-write history? Talk is cheap here.

Now, when you die and talk with Jesus and if he happens to ask you "Did you research this or just spread lies about believers?" I hope you won't be ashamed of your answer.

reply to post by wildtimes

. . . If only you could leave out the part that implies those who are walking in the Spirit and see themselves as equally saved and loved without saying Jesus is the only way are doomed.....

That's a tough one and I would like the answer to that, too.

With God, things are possible where they are not for man's trying. Jesus said to follow me, so it may depend, maybe, on what Jesus tells you. I'm not sure that evangelizing in the name of Jesus is mandatory for every person.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by vogon42

 

Its not hate. It's called profound sadness because you people are pissing all over my King.

Anger and sadness are just two sides of the same coin. I, for one am angry and sad to see people making my God out to be a big joke or worse. Don't let anyone make you feel bad about the words you used here. God knows what you are thinking so you might as well state your feelings as accurately as you can.

You and I disagree on many things, but this riles me also. Especially when you see it on threads that have nothing to do with religion.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
It may be that you just don't know much about how Wikipedia works.
This video may be informative on this subject of its being "neutral".

reply to post by jmdewey60


Your video title is misleading no where on the video did I hear that Israel is paying internet workers to manipulate online content. They (people on the video) say that Wikipedia has much anit-zionist posting on Wikipedia and they want to learn how to post their side of the issue. That seems like fair play.

As for Wikipedia being "owned":

wikimediafoundation.org...

At its core, Wikipedia is driven by a global community of more than 150,000 volunteers - all dedicated to sharing knowledge freely. Over almost eight years, these volunteers have contributed more than 11 million articles in 265 languages. More than 275 million people come to our website every month to access information, free of charge and free of advertising.

I followed the link to the benefactors page and if you think this is a conspiracy, research it.


This is no proof that the Jesuits are killers.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

Your video title is misleading no where on the video did I hear that Israel is paying internet workers to manipulate online content.

I did not make that video but just linked to it.
Whether people are paid or not is beside the point but I was only trying to show how Wikipedia, the basic concept of it, is to be user edited, so people with an agenda can hold seminars to train people in their party how to go into Wikipedia to change things to be favorable to their party. This gives one example, the Zionists, but the same thing could be going on with Catholics who I am sure outnumber Zionists.

reply to post by jmdewey60

In that case why don't to see where Catholics are learning to author or are authoring Wikipedia posts? You won't find a darn thing.

With 150,000 volunteers world wide you can bet you'll find bias posts, but that is because each and every person has their own unique perspective. Nothing is perfect. I can't fault their idealogy/mission:

But Wikipedia is more than a website. We share a common cause: Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment.

wikimediafoundation.org...

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


I can see you have an anit-catholic bias and I am really tired playing cat and mouse here when you have given zero evidence to support your claim that Jesuits caused genocide so I am going to back my head away from this brick wall and leave you to your own devices. Remember God knows your heart and what this hate is all about. I tried to show you truth, but admitting you're wrong must be very hard. Good luck with loving others and all.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

I tried to show you truth, but admitting you're wrong must be very hard.

You are living in a delusional fantasy world if you think there were not millions killed in the wars and mass slaughters of innocents for trying to worship Jesus without the sanction of "The Church".

This discussion is awesome, christian against christian, reminds me of the early days of the church (no I wasn't there). All this squabbling because of some interpretation of what is written. You religious folk (all religions) make me sad, you sit there judging others for their beliefs or lack there of, you sit there on your high chair and preach the good book of your god. You talk of GOD and his love, yet at the same time you condemn those who do not see as you do.

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

You argue about Jesus being god or the messiah, yet he doesn't fit the OT prediction of the messiah that is to come.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Joseph is a descendant of David as should the messiah, yet Joseph is not Jesus' biological father.

Isiah 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. ---this is interpreted NOT BY ME, to show that before the Messiah reaches maturity, both Jewish Kingdoms would be destroyed. Didn't happen.
Emmanuel VS Jesus


To be fair, even your so called Man-God contradicted himself:

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Contradiction in the same book
Matthew 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Contradiction of
Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Contradicts the following
Matthew 23:17-18- 17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
Luke 11:40 Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?
Luke 12: 20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

I will also go as far as to call him a LIAR
Mark 16: 17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

You folks claim to follow and believe in Jesus, can you do any of these things? Didn't think so.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Another Contradiction by your so called GOD aka Jesus
2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy
Contradicts
Proverbs 24:17 Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth

There's many many more, but I tire of looking at my bible.

I say live and let live.

My intent was not to bash, but to show, that the bible is riddled with these sort of examples. I didn't plan on insulting anyone, but I'm sure some will see it that way. I was raised as a Roman Catholic, I didn't plan to become an atheist, it just happened gradually.

Engafan.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
yadablayadabla

reply to post by Engafan

You argue about Jesus being god or the messiah, yet he doesn't fit the OT prediction of the messiah that is to come.

You are pretending that the writers of the NT somehow did not know anything about the OT
which is just not the case.
It is a self-proving system within the NT that you can not easily poke holes in.

But I did, maybe it's easier for me to see as I no longer believe, and harder for you because you still believe. Jesus does not fit the OT predictions the messiah that is to come for the Jews.

That's all I was saying, people adopted Jesus as the messiah from the way that I see it.

reply to post by Engafan

But I did,

No, what you did was point out apparent inconsistencies between the four Gospels. The one you pointed to which shows a lack pf prophetic fulfillment was the thing about Jesus being descended from David because of Joseph not being his natural father, while there are several verses in the Gospels that say that Joseph was his father.

. . . maybe it's easier for me to see as I no longer believe, and harder for you because you still believe.

I'm sure I have had the proper frame of mind at some point over the last fifty years where I may have been open minded enough to look at it objectively.

Jesus does not fit the OT predictions the messiah that is to come for the Jews.

That would be very interesting to me if you were actually able to make that point rather than simply to elude to it as if it was an established fact.

That's all I was saying, people adopted Jesus as the messiah from the way that I see it.

Kind of but it was not as if that adoption was baseless. Once Jesus proved himself to be what he claimed, then by retrospect, people can see in a proper interpretation of the OT that they could be understood as pointing to what Jesus did turn out to be.