Taliban-U.S. peace talks look more likely; military worried

Originally posted by neo96
Yeah make peace with the people who stone and behead and cut off women's noses and keep their women "barefoot" and pregnant so to speak.

After a decade of war must be nice to cut an run like that they don't have to live there and it goes back to the safe haven it use to be.

Then more plotting and planning for the next time.

How many more Americans do you want dead? This is a war that never should have been started in the first place. What happens in their country is their business not ours and is a stupid reason to justify war over. Let's do this the right way we bring our soldiers home and let people like you who want these senseless wars sign up and go fight them.

Originally posted by neo96
Yeah make peace with the people who stone and behead and cut off women's noses and keep their women "barefoot" and pregnant so to speak.

After a decade of war must be nice to cut an run like that they don't have to live there and it goes back to the safe haven it use to be.

Then more plotting and planning for the next time.

Your comment makes me sick, with your sarcasm about peace. So you'd rather USA murder more people? I don't see why people just dont mind their own damn business and the world would be much better off. Who cares what they do with their women...its not America.

Originally posted by neo96
Yeah make peace with the people who stone and behead and cut off women's noses and keep their women "barefoot" and pregnant so to speak.

After a decade of war must be nice to cut an run like that they don't have to live there and it goes back to the safe haven it use to be.

Then more plotting and planning for the next time.

Generalizing is racist, or bigotry at its best, your opinion is hateful at its core.

On topic, this is a great move, finally American troops can come home and the money can be used for some other more productive purpose. After all, how long can US keep borrowing and at the same time print money from thin air?

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by nenothtu

The purpose of the war was to emphasize that there are those around with whom thou shalt not screw. Tell us to go to hell when we make a serious request, and we'll blow your damned mud huts up

I'm a bit of a stickler for details.

The war you are describing above is when you took on the Military Might of Grenada.

You showed them.

If you're a stickler for details, throw some out that refute my comment, and we're in business. I was not describing Grenada. There aren't any mud huts in Grenada, nor was Grenada attacked for refusing a request.

We DID "show them", so there is ONE detail you managed to find, but it's insufficient to connect my comment with Grenada.

Nor is Grenada the topic here.

Nice try. Thanks for playing.

So are the US waving a white flag and seeking a conditional surrender to try and save some face ???




Hehe another failed war to add to the list.

reply to post by Tw0Sides

Both of Bush's wars have been a total waste of Military Men, money and a HUGE loss of Face to America.

We've got our guys in place to keep the Opium trade going though...and the heroin business is booming. My little brother's blood was spilled over there while protecting opium fields. There's no honor in that. The war wasn't lost, I say this because it was never a war in the first place.

We will ALWAYS have a presence there as long as there are still rare minerals, and of course the heroin keeps us there. What's wrong, you don't like heroin? Don't worry big pharma has something for ya!

Anyone who considers the whole Afghan fiasco a "war" is extremely deluded.

Originally posted by sonnny1
Unfortunately,The Labels,"warmongers and peacehaters" have been generously applied to ANYONE that hasnt taken a pro stance on Iran, Taliban,Afghanistan,Syria etc....

I for one want peace.So do many others.

Because I am American,I am labeled a warmonger,based on country of origin,regardless of beliefs.

This happens frequently on ATS.

edit on 20-1-2012 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

I don't recall labelling you anything, especially based on where you come from. Nationalism, jingoism, and ignorance are all different things, but a citizen is one of them.

reply to post by SLAYER69


The most telling part of the article to me was:

The Obama administration shifted course last year and opened the direct channel in secret.

And why does he do things like this in secret? Because it would be an embarrassment to do so publicly. The US policy has been not to negotiate with terrorists. Obama is probably offering billions of dollars to the Taliban to pretend to play nice with us to achieve what looks like victory before the 2012 election. 

My prediction- Obama will have Jay Z and Taliban leaders at the White House  in October for a big public party and claim "the war in Afghanistan is over". 

Originally posted by insaan

Originally posted by neo96
Yeah make peace with the people who stone and behead and cut off women's noses and keep their women "barefoot" and pregnant so to speak.

After a decade of war must be nice to cut an run like that they don't have to live there and it goes back to the safe haven it use to be.

Then more plotting and planning for the next time.

Generalizing is racist, or bigotry at its best, your opinion is hateful at its core.

On topic, this is a great move, finally American troops can come home and the money can be used for some other more productive purpose. After all, how long can US keep borrowing and at the same time print money from thin air?

Yes: most of these guys really hate to the core the way "those" guys treat women and children. Its one of the traits I like in them. The capacity to be disgusted by the disgusting and want to do something about it.

I kind of agree with you about the monetary aspects of this. Being bled for money is a strategy of the enemy. One that I think isn't being properly strategically addressed, but I haven't really been thinking on it for very long.

And what of the rare earth minerals? They aren't doing anything with them. What's your beef with someone who will? Sifting stuff out of the dirt is a horrible idea? Gets in the way of smoking poppies and beating the thirteen year old wife?


reply to post by buster2010


Oh buster - there may not have been a good reason to go into Iraq. But there was a damn good reason to go to Afghanistan.

If it had ever been about saving women, no one would have ever gone. The Taliban existed that way for a decade, and no one did squat until their leadership provided a homebase for a pan-national terrorist attack.

Besides, what the last 20 years has shown me is that your type will be the first people to push women out of the staircase during the Zombie Apocalypse. Buying a few minutes of peace with the bodies of women is always a price you're willing to pay.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Unfortunately I've already seen the data that proves that Taliban attacks have been both desperate and resulting in a mere fraction of the catastrophe that the Americans have brought to the region.

Too bad.

Maybe they ought to rethink who they pick fights with.

"Brought catastrophe to the region"? What is it you think wars are composed of? Flowers, skittles, and unicorns?

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Tell me, in your opinion, what is an insurgent? Some evil-doer that needs to be killed, or somebody with the balls to pick up a gun after watching their family and friends turn into pink mist?

The guy who picks up a gun and shoots at you. "Pink mist" and "evil deeds" appear to be optional.

reply to post by nenothtu


Pretty much.

They got their little tyranny, but it wasn't enough. Clearly it hasn't hurt the tribes enough yet. They want to keep doing it. They appear to have a bottomless need for stone age living.

Originally posted by Aeons

Besides, what the last 20 years has shown me is that your type will be the first people to push women out of the staircase during the Zombie Apocalypse. Buying a few minutes of peace with the bodies of women is always a price you're willing to pay.

edit on 2012/1/20 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

By the above quote, I knew we could have some thing we agree on, your a fan of the Walking Dead as well.

Back on topic.
I would never question your commitment to your duty, or willingness to carry it out. (this to all soldiers)

But don`t you ever get angry being used as pawn pieces for your gov, worst than than, pieces of equipment to be used and discarded by Corporations.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by beezzer

 

The definition of "win" just has to change, because the type of war isn't the same.

The amorphous tribal conflict brought forward in time. The definition of "win" needs to be updated in the minds of the West.

A "win" is what you have when you've accomplished your objective.

You have a different definition in mind?

reply to post by Tw0Sides

I would never question your commitment to your duty, or willingness to carry it out. (this to all soldiers)

I appreciate that…

But don`t you ever get angry being used as pawn pieces for your gov, worst than than, pieces of equipment to be used and discarded by Corporations.

Unfortunately, military members do not get to call the shots. Civilians at the Pentagon call the shots.

Does it suck to do things you disagree with? You bet! I would argue that military life in general sucks (to a certain extent) and the majority of the time you are doing things you don’t necessarily agree with (part of the reason I got out after 8 years).

Having said that, please recall that the number of military members who supported and believed in our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan during the first few years was very high.

The Taliban is not Al Qaeda. The Taliban are nationalists defending their country. Al Qaeda are terrorists. People need to understand this if we're ever going to hope to put the pieces back together.

And yes, I'm fully aware of the horrible things the Taliban does. But look at where they're at. We have no business walking around the Middle East like police officers, telling everybody what to do. We need out, and we've needed that for some time now. We have our own problems to worry about.

reply to post by ManjushriPrajna


Contradiction?

The Taliban is not Al Qaeda. The Taliban are nationalists defending their country. Al Qaeda are terrorists.

I'm fully aware of the horrible things the Taliban does.

They are terrorists in my book.

When was the last time you heard a news report on the Taliban's refusal to wear uniforms? This is a basic requirement of any armed force, allowing armies to distinguish who they are fighting and avoid civilian casualties. The Taliban don't do it. Hell, no jihadist movement in the world does it.

Then there's the Taliban's habit of commandeering homes and mosques to store weapons and conduct ambushes on ISAF forces -- again, putting civilians in harm's way. Not kosher, according to the Geneva Conventions.

How about the Taliban's use of child soldiers? Then again, can you really call the child a "soldier" if all you're doing is strapping on a dynamite belt and sending them over to beg candy from the troops, the better to blow them up at close range? More like "walking IED".

Since the Taliban continue to target Afghan teachers, police, politicians, farmers, women, children and anyone else who gets in their way, they are responsible for all civilian casualties in May or anytime before or since.

link

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by sonnny1
Unfortunately,The Labels,"warmongers and peacehaters" have been generously applied to ANYONE that hasnt taken a pro stance on Iran, Taliban,Afghanistan,Syria etc....

I for one want peace.So do many others.

Because I am American,I am labeled a warmonger,based on country of origin,regardless of beliefs.

This happens frequently on ATS.

edit on 20-1-2012 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

I don't recall labelling you anything, especially based on where you come from. Nationalism, jingoism, and ignorance are all different things, but a citizen is one of them.

I don't recall saying you personally did.

Probably the reason why I didnt call you out personally.

The labels though,Yeah I have seen them.

I HAVE been labeled by others on ATS though,with the same petty label. When those who dont know the difference between Patriotism,and Nationalism,or even Jingoism,playing armchair political analysts,and proclaiming,based on a few viewpoints of a poster,the verdict and judgement. I see it on ATS, the anti-American crowd. Its Prevalent.

Warmongers,based on what Country you hail from.

TIme out for reality check:-

1. The taliban, is still a rogue outfit, no matter its claims. As long as it continues with the murders of innocents, they are terrorists, and will be treated as such - to be brought to justice, one way or another, for no innocent civlised human can lived beside wild beasts and hope to survive.


2. The Karzai gov, no matter its flaws, ARE STILL the PEOPLE's choice, won by a free election based upon Afghan's free will. The taliban? They are mere nobodies. No body elected them. They EXISTS only because their voice are loud and are willing to MURDER others to achieve their aims, regardless if afghans or fellow humans.


3. IF the taliban wishes to be taken seriously, then they must forswear ALL forms of violence. NO excuses if someone breaks ranks and murder innocents again, regardless if Civilian or Military, as peaceful means to end the war is in the process.

Anyone who breaks rank goes to show that the supposed 'taliban' outfit, whomever is the 'leader' have no control over their own members, and thus have no right to any personal interests in a national dialogue, and be regarded as animals that they had always been.


4.Make no mistakes, USA and any true humanitarian ally, will NOT hesitate to prolong the war, if the taliban refuses to forswear violence. The war started only because the stupid belligerant taliban leaders refused to hand over the human exterminators Jihadist Al Queda, and as a result, were treated rightly as another bunch of animals hell bent on the extermination of mankind of both muslims and non-muslims.


5. May the taliban be wise, to curb their own men. An eye for an eye polilcy must end somewhere, or the whole world will be blind. Those selfish who live for vengence best be thrown into cells and have the keys dropped into the ocean, so that other innocents may live.


6. May the taliban leadership be wise, and choose wisely. They no longer represent themselves, but the hopes and aspirations of afghans, as well as the world long sickened being bullied by extremists of all kinds and will not hesitate to return measure for measure.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by Aeons

Besides, what the last 20 years has shown me is that your type will be the first people to push women out of the staircase during the Zombie Apocalypse. Buying a few minutes of peace with the bodies of women is always a price you're willing to pay.

edit on 2012/1/20 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

By the above quote, I knew we could have some thing we agree on, your a fan of the Walking Dead as well.

Back on topic.
I would never question your commitment to your duty, or willingness to carry it out. (this to all soldiers)

But don`t you ever get angry being used as pawn pieces for your gov, worst than than, pieces of equipment to be used and discarded by Corporations.

I'm not a soldier. I seriously considered becoming one. Have had the ROTC package in my hands (and let me tell you the reaction of the poor dude at the recruiting office was classic.)

I make more money doing what I'm doing. I'm a woman, and I wanted children. I've now had them, and if there becomes a need I'll join if they take people in my age group, which I think that they only do sometimes.

Everyone has a right to complain. I agree with the Corporations comment. If they want that, they should have to sing for their supper.