Taliban-U.S. peace talks look more likely; military worried

If Obama seals a deal with the taliban to run Afghanistan to keep peace and for US troops to pull out, he will be no better than them IMO.....

I understand the need for peace, but if you stir the hornets nest, you cannot just walk away after killing most of them for they'll come back to get you again in the future.

These so called "wars" or military adventures more appropriately are a shamozzle!!!!!

In War there are no rules....if the enemy is that much of a threat to you, you go and eradicate/eliminate/remove that threat not punch it a few times then shake hands in the end.

Call it what it is...A Crusade. and if so, go in hard and all the way and do it right, else get the hell out and you should not have been there in the first place.

Fighting with one hand tied behind your back is crap. Its all or nothing. and if it is all, it better be a justifyable threat that your trying to eradicate not something pumped up on false data/evidence......

rant over....

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Tell me, in your opinion, what is an insurgent? Some evil-doer that needs to be killed, or somebody with the balls to pick up a gun after watching their family and friends turn into pink mist?

What type of "insurgent" are we talking about?

The type that comes along,rigged full of explosives,and kills innocent victims in the name of Religious Interpretation? Maybe one that comes along,picks up a gun,because the "money" is right?

Funny that they have NO problem picking up a gun,after maybe seeing their family die,and in the same manner kills a family,or many family's, that has no dog in the fight. Who cares ?

But its ok. Its ALWAYS the US's fault,when an "individual" decides to do wrong to his fellow human beings.

Peace is underrated,in an insurgents eyes.

The solutions are political and long term - and no one wants to do it. So we'll be back. Because they'll do it again.

The current foreign policy seems to be that through various agencies we back some criminal or nasty political agency and hope that they'll bring stability through a revolution or coalition of crime groups.

So far so good I'd say.

reply to post by sonnny1


Peace is what they grant after they've achieved all their goals.

Then you have to evaluate what those goals are.

That's when things become very interesting.

reply to post by SLAYER69

*shakes head sadly*

Let's just leave now. Screw 'em. All of them. Let's have our (pathetic) leaders wave the white flag Bow and apologise to the frackin Taliban and go.

Our political leaders no longer have our backs. Since the military takes its orders from elected civilians, we have no other choice.

They won, we lost. Our political leaders don't have the stones to continue this fight.

reply to post by beezzer


The definition of "win" just has to change, because the type of war isn't the same.

The amorphous tribal conflict brought forward in time. The definition of "win" needs to be updated in the minds of the West.

reply to post by beezzer


While you are at it, have these leaders go and personally spit on the graves of every US soldier KIA in Afghanistan.

Opium production and exports from Afghanistan have never been better, if there is a bright side in all of this, I suppose that would be it.

9 years ago I wrote an article (I'll see if I can dig it up) about fighting in the middle east.

I was very critical of Bush back then because I felt that he was going about it wrong.

The middle east sees negotiation as weakness.
The don't have the same respect for human life as we do in the west.
They respect strength.

We started out this war(s) badly and have not improved since then.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


I've yet to figure out why NATO nations didn't have the military clear and secure and area (they did...over and over) and then move in the bureaucrats.

Start bringing in the farmers as a "opium board" and selling their product to Pharm.

Expand and repeat.

Oh wait. That would make us an Empire..... or not stupid or something like that.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
reply to post by beezzer

 

While you are at it, have these leaders go and personally spit on the graves of every US soldier KIA in Afghanistan.

Opium production and exports from Afghanistan have never been better, if there is a bright side in all of this, I suppose that would be it.

They've already done far worse than just "spit" on every serviceman, living or dead.

In my humble opinion, of course.

reply to post by beezzer


If my definition of peace is for you to surrender to my God and his servants (me and my buddies) then I'd be delighted to negotiate the terms of your surrender for as long as you want.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by beezzer

 

If my definition of peace is for you to surrender to my God and his servants (me and my buddies) then I'd be delighted to negotiate the terms of your surrender for as long as you want.

Exactly! This is a huge win in their minds.

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

So what was the point of this war ?

Al-cia-da was in Pakistan the entire time, we fought the Taliban --to give it back to the Taliban?

Al-Q was working in Afghanistan the whole damn time, and helped in the brutal take over there. Your revision on works on people who were not paying attention to global politics. I was. I was paying attention to the brutal regimes suppression of women, and their continuing attempts to get the West's attentions by taking airplanes. That's right, 911 wasn't their first one. People like you kept advocating delayed retribution and giving into them so they kept getting bolder.

The borders of Pakistan / Afghanistan and every other part of the Islamic superstate are a figment of politicians and the West's minds. They do business, marry across families, etc. Those borders means almost nothing, so your deflection "it was Pakistan" means nothing.

Not looking to start a fight but go look into "The Al Qaeda Airlift" back in 2002 - we US flew their top fighters out of Tora Bora - do you think the CIA cares about womens rights or brutal regimes. Its a joke - we used Al-Q last year in Libya & now have ready to pounce in Syria.

Yeesh - get off the Fox news - Al Qaeda - "The Base" - is a CIA database of Mujahideen fighters that Carter & Brzezinski set up in Afghanistan to fight the Russians in the late 70's & 80's. Al Queda is a tool of the CIA to this day - its a CIA operation. I'm not breaking new ground w/this info - I hope.



articles.nydailynews.com...

yes, I know the history of the US/Russian Afghanistan fiasco. What I didn't realize years ago was that you guys would take the wrong message away from it.

Stop training the enemy of tomorrow. Thanks.

Not: Please be stupid and self-destructive and not realize you have security and interests all over the World.

The average age of a Taliban / Al-Q / Muhajadeen fighter should give you a clue that even if your country set up all the originals, or even all the second wave of them....by the time they hit 911 the organization was running on its own with almost no original people in it.

Just like the ones now who say "we didn't do 911." No you didn't. Your predecessors did, funded and top staffed by Saud and Pakistan factions while trying to set up a base for the new Caliphate in the place they see as the height of the Caliphate. (when being a leader was a two year lifespan....good times.)

History. It has *HUMAN* dynamics.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

You've Dragged out/Bragged about the whole "'University" angle many times while you and I have gone over this topic a few times in the past.

Should I scan in some Certificates/Degrees of my own?

Would that make you believe me anymore?

Give it a rest.

It isn't "Classy" nor winning the hearts and minds.

Stick to the topic.

edit on 19-1-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Pull out your "certificates" and "degrees" then.

I'll make one thing clear to you and the other tools in the shed; I only bring up the fact that I study this academically, because I infact study this academically. Most people on messageboards cannot say the same, and I would know this considering I've been on them for over a decade.

And if you really want to get all technical, then I'll let you in on this fact: When it comes to studying politics/political science in university, there's six different levels of the education you can get in the US based on your ability to pay; in Canada, it's universal. And you want to know the funny thing? The best American counterpart civilian education to my own would be among the elite, who would attend elite schools where status is more of a priority than actual education. We Canadians don't see status as also being a measure of intelligence- in other words, our universities are much more useful than yours.

And you tell me to keep on topic? Funny, because every single goddamn thing that I do in university, every minute of education provided to me, is all about understanding such things as what this topic is about; to generalize, war and peace in current times.

It will be my generation that will be on the geopolitical stage in a decade or so and it will be up to people like me to make the decisions to maintain society from self-destruction until the next generation takes over. So you warmongers and peacehaters can lecture me about how insignificant you think people like me are, yet your time is fading fast.

Have a nice day

reply to post by Fractured.Facade
the SCOTUS is doing just this, well letting Sharia law be used in the court of law, but yea i could see that happen.

Originally posted by Aeons
yes, I know the history of the US/Russian Afghanistan fiasco. What I didn't realize years ago was that you guys would take the wrong message away from it.

Stop training the enemy of tomorrow. Thanks.

Not: Please be stupid and self-destructive and not realize you have security and interests all over the World.

The average age of a Taliban / Al-Q / Muhajadeen fighter should give you a clue that even if your country set up all the originals, or even all the second wave of them....by the time they hit 911 the organization was running on its own with almost no original people in it.

Just like the ones now who say "we didn't do 911." No you didn't. Your predecessors did, funded and top staffed by Saud and Pakistan factions while trying to set up a base for the new Caliphate in the place they see as the height of the Caliphate. (when being a leader was a two year lifespan....good times.)

History. It has *HUMAN* dynamics.

Oops - sorry thought you were American. Agreed by the time 911 went down Tim Osman (Osama Bin Laden) was dead or on his death bed.

Peace

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Give it a rest.

I'll make one thing clear to you and the other tools in the shed;

This...

I can't wait. Let me guess. You're going to attempt to impress the hell out of us once again with your Scholastic accolades

I only bring up the fact that I study this academically, because I infact study this academically. Most people on messageboards cannot say the same, and I would know this considering I've been on them for over a decade.

OK that's enough.

I acquiesce.

You can be King of the message boards. You have impressed me with your ten year tenure.

And if you really want to get all technical, then I'll let you in on this fact: When it comes to studying politics/political science in university, there's six different levels of the education you can get in the US based on your ability to pay; in Canada, it's universal. And you want to know the funny thing?

No..

Not really but I'm sure you'll pull something out of your backside.

Proceed

The best American counterpart civilian education to my own would be among the elite, who would attend elite schools where status is more of a priority than actual education. We Canadians don't see status as also being a measure of intelligence- in other words, our universities are much more useful than yours.

Yet...

You'll attempt [Poorly] to impress us with your self absorbed STATUS...

And you tell me to keep on topic?

Funny, because every single goddamn thing that I do in university, every minute of education provided to me, is all about understanding such things as what this topic is about; to generalize, war and peace in current times.

And...

You took the time to spew all of this out from your keyboard. Which has nothing to do with the topic, other than trying vainly to quantify your opinions of self and perceived myopic view of topic.

It will be my generation that will be on the geopolitical stage in a decade or so and it will be up to people like me to make the decisions to maintain society from self-destruction until the next generation takes over.

Meanwhile back at the Ranch and Reality.
You're still soaking up class space and haven't a clue other than that narrow view you hold of things and of the world around you.

So you warmongers and peacehaters can lecture me about how insignificant you think people like me are, yet your time is fading fast.

Name calling?

Is that what your Higher education and Higher opinion of self gets you these days? Also, My Generation? Fading? Yeah well maybe. But move over speedster. My son is at University now as well. He didn't just polish a chair with his butt like some people while soaking up Tax payer money.

First he went across the Globe in person like his father.
Not everything can be learned in a sterilized Academic environment or study.

PEACE

Unfortunately,The Labels,"warmongers and peacehaters" have been generously applied to ANYONE that hasnt taken a pro stance on Iran, Taliban,Afghanistan,Syria etc....

I for one want peace.So do many others.

Because I am American,I am labeled a warmonger,based on country of origin,regardless of beliefs.

This happens frequently on ATS.

This war has achieved it's goals.

All of the USA stock of old munitions got all used up. Great! Transfer $$$$$ from the people to big business to make lots of new people killing bombs.

Blow up # loads old stuff. Transfer $$$$$ from the people to big business to make lots of new substandard buildings.

Get this arm of the CIA drug trade up and running again. Transfer $$$$$ from the people to CIA to make lots of people sick.

Give US people the feeling of pay back!

Lots of projects that were canned or about to be canned are up and running again. To fight terrorists we need new subs and aircraft carriers and raptors. Transfer $$$$$ from the people to big business to make lots of new people killing toys.

WAR - savior of big business.