Israel launches 'deadly air strike' on Gaza

Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by DJAghetto

 

Israel DID NOT become a country just because "some other countries approved it to be". lol Israel became a country, because the people in that particular area wanted a country called Israel and they made it happen. It's just that simple.

I thought the U.N. set the stone into the ring.

With the insistence of the U.S. and U.K.

The U.K. set up the mandates during/after WW1, ... long before "statehood".

What's your point exactly?

The UN voted in favor of the Partition Plan, but the US government didn't really get involved until after Israel declared independence in 1948. The British Mandate of Palestine had nothing to do with Israel becoming a sovereign country. It was just a mandate that made clear that that particular region( which consisted of present-day Israel, the Gaza Strip, West Bank, and present-day Jordan) was under British control.

How many genuine Middle-Eastern people of the Juda faith actually were involved ?

Hmmmm.

About 1.2 million Jewish refugees who were forced out of Muslim countries prior to 1948.

I thought all that land was bought by English/Europeans starting in the 1800's.

Hmmmm.

They didn't buy all the land in the area. The Arabs at the time sold them all the swamps and almost uninhabitable lands, which the Jews turned into cities and farmland. The Jews didn't really have so much land until the Arab countries invaded in 1948.

reply to post by DJAghetto

Israel DID NOT become a country just because "some other countries approved it to be". lol Israel became a country, because the people in that particular area wanted a country called Israel and they made it happen. It's just that simple.

Who were those people ?
When did they ask ?
Who did they ask from ?





In summary of some events mentioned in the video, here is a timeline.
[1882-1914]: 65,000 European Jews immigrated into Palestine.
[1915]: McMahon-Hussein Correspondence; in which the British promised the Arabs under Ottoman Rule, that once they freed themselves, the land will be theirs, including Palestine.
[1916]: Sykes-Picot Agreement: Secret agreement between the UK and France, backstabbing the Arabs by agreeing to divide the Arab world after the overthrow of the Ottoman Empire.
[1917]: Balfour Declaration: in which the UK promised the persecuted European Jews a homeland in Palestine.
[1920-1930]: 108,825 additional Jewish immigrants.
[1922]: Population; 757,182. (Arabs: 87.6%, Jews: 11%)

In the 1920's, as land belonging to local residents were stripped away, the first clashes between Palestinians and Jews emerged.

[1931]: Population; 1,035,154 (Arabs: 81.6%, Jews: 16.9%)
[1932-1936]: Hitler's rise to rule -> 174,000 Jewish immigrants.
[1937-1945]: 119,800 Jewish immigrants.
[1947]: As the conflict spiralled out of control, UK handed the problem over to the United Nations.
UN decided on the partition of Palestine into two states, an Arab state and a Jewish state.
Despite the fact that Arabs were more than 2/3 of the population, owned 97% of the land, they were given only 43% of the land.

The non-existent Palestinians owned over 97% of the land, and just because Jews were persecuted in Europe, the innocent Palestinians (who Jews lived with in complete harmony) were made to pay.

And the most shocking thing, is that the rest of the world blames Palestinians for their plight, because they did not accept giving up their land, their homes and lives; simply because people of the same religion once used to live there thousands of years ago.

Hussein-McMahon Correspondence
Sykes-Picot Agreement
Balfour Declaration



It was a plan and it was what Zionist wanted to do. Just like burglars steal when Palestinians were asleep.

But I think you don't like burglars to rub your house, do you ?

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by DJAghetto

 

Who were those people ?
When did they ask ?
Who did they ask from ?

These were people called Jews. In 1948, they declared their independence. One of the first countries to recognize Israel was YOUR country, Iran. But THAT Iran was before your time. Back then, Iran was a moderate, more peaceful, developing country that wasn’t hell-bent on taking over the Middle East. Israel and Iran used to have good economic and military ties, too. But then the Ayatollah took over with his radical ideologies. Now look at Iran: Their economy is sinking, the sanctions are piling up, they’re attempting to “stand up” to the Americans, and the country is on the brink of civil war. It’s a shame…

 

In summary of some events mentioned in the video, here is a timeline.
[1882-1914]: 65,000 European Jews immigrated into Palestine.
[1915]: McMahon-Hussein Correspondence; in which the British promised the Arabs under Ottoman Rule, that once they freed themselves, the land will be theirs, including Palestine.
[1916]: Sykes-Picot Agreement: Secret agreement between the UK and France, backstabbing the Arabs by agreeing to divide the Arab world after the overthrow of the Ottoman Empire.
[1917]: Balfour Declaration: in which the UK promised the persecuted European Jews a homeland in Palestine.
[1920-1930]: 108,825 additional Jewish immigrants.
[1922]: Population; 757,182. (Arabs: 87.6%, Jews: 11%)

In the 1920's, as land belonging to local residents were stripped away, the first clashes between Palestinians and Jews emerged.

[1931]: Population; 1,035,154 (Arabs: 81.6%, Jews: 16.9%)
[1932-1936]: Hitler's rise to rule -> 174,000 Jewish immigrants.
[1937-1945]: 119,800 Jewish immigrants.
[1947]: As the conflict spiralled out of control, UK handed the problem over to the United Nations.
UN decided on the partition of Palestine into two states, an Arab state and a Jewish state.
Despite the fact that Arabs were more than 2/3 of the population, owned 97% of the land, they were given only 43% of the land.

The non-existent Palestinians owned over 97% of the land, and just because Jews were persecuted in Europe, the innocent Palestinians (who Jews lived with in complete harmony) were made to pay.

And the most shocking thing, is that the rest of the world blames Palestinians for their plight, because they did not accept giving up their land, their homes and lives; simply because people of the same religion once used to live there thousands of years ago.

Hussein-McMahon Correspondence
Sykes-Picot Agreement
Balfour Declaration

 

It was a plan and it was what Zionist wanted to do. Just like burglars steal when Palestinians were asleep.

But I think you don't like burglars to rub your house, do you ?

“Zionism” already happened. The goal of Zionism was to create a homeland for Jews. That goal has already been accomplished, back in 1948. Had the Arab countries accepted the 1947 Partition Plan and made peace with Israel, there would be peace between Israel and Palestine today.


Those innocent Palestinians were “made to pay the price” because of their Arab brothers. They didn’t want Israel there and they tried to push the Jews “back into the sea”, but they failed miserably. As a result, Israel gained more land.

Israel can live with Arabs in harmony. It has in the past and it still does. A good example would be the Arab population of Israel. They are a big part of Israeli society. They have parliament members, reporters, football players on the national team, etc. Living in peace is POSSIBLE. However, there are many Arabs/Muslims who are not willing to co-exist with Jews as equals. That is the main problem. Seriously... If you want to blame someone for the current situation of the Palestinians, look no further than their Arab brethren.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by hmdphantom

 

An Israeli military spokeswoman said the target was "a terrorist squad that was attempting to place an explosive device by the security fence" in the second such incident this year.

IDF Liars!

How many times are they going to use that excuse?

One of many recent examples:

An Air Force jet carried out a strike against a rocket cell in the northern Gaza Strip on Friday morning seconds before it fired rockets at Israel. The IDF Spokesperson's Unit said that the aircraft hit two terrorists and succeeded in foiling the attempted rocket attack.

www.ynetnews.com...

The liars can bomb anyone they feel and use the excuse of "they were about to fire a rocket at us".

Lying POS cowards.

Unless you can prove that, you are simply making up facts yourself out of thin air. Are you not? Is that not lying?

Can you prove that they were not setting up a bomb? If not, how do you know who is lying?

I don't know, so I won't pretend to know. Either side or both may be lying.

Unless of course you were there? Where you there? Are you an eye witness?

reply to post by hmdphantom


So even though Israel will show a drone video of these terrorist in the field setting up rockets or mortars I guess you will still call the IDF lying scum? Its amazing how people like you ignore all logic and common sense when it comes to the U.S. or Israel. Israel can do no right in your eyes because your blinded by Satan.

reply to post by hmdphantom


The history of Israel being ran and occupied by the Jews goes back long before video and even paper books so nice try. Even Amidinanut admitted that the land belonged to the Jews but then turned around and blamed the Jewish government for today's problems. It was in his first U.S. interview but TPTB took that part out after it was live on TV.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Overkill is Israel's middle name.

These numbers from each source aren't a complete match but they do paint a picture.

Israelis and Palestinians Killed in the Current Violence

www.ifamericaknew.org...

The last two years have been less deadly, by a significant margin, than the past years.

Victims of Palestinian Violence and Terrorism since September 2000

link

1,218 people have been killed by Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000.

Note: This list also includes 18 Israelis killed abroad in terror attacks directed specifically against Israeli targets, and 3 American diplomatic personnel killed in Gaza.
Not listed are 9 IDF soldiers killed during the ground operation against Hamas terror in Gaza (27 Dec 2008 - 18 Jan 2009).

Fatalities since the outbreak of the second intifada and until operation "Cast Lead"

old.btselem.org...

Data by the date of event, 29.9.2000-26.12.2008

Palestinians who did not take part in the hostilities and were killed by Israeli security forces ( not including the objects of targeted killings).

Gaza Strip/ West Bank/ Total/ Israel
1352 / 834 / 2186/ 5

Palestinians who were killed by Israeli security forces and it is not known if they were taking part in the hostilities

Gaza Strip/ West Bank/ Total/ Israel
240/ 404/ 644/ 4

Palestinians who took part in the hostilities and were killed by Israeli security forces

Gaza Strip/ West Bank / Total/ Israel
1255/ 471/ 1726/ 60

Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians

Gaza Strip/ West Bank / Total/ Israel
39/ 200/ 239/ 492

Israeli security force personnel killed by Palestinians

Gaza Strip/ West Bank / Total/ Israel
97/ 146/ 243/ 89

reply to post by DJAghetto

However, there are many Arabs/Muslims who are not willing to co-exist with Jews as equals.

I'm drawing a parallel here: I see a similarity between the Iranians not wishing to be integrated with the Israelis and the Europeans having a hard time accepting immigrants.

I hope this isn't deemed insulting somehow. Purely observation

reply to post by DJAghetto


I don't like correcting people, but it has to be done from time to time. It is completely false to claim there is no occupation, the whole of Palestine is under occupation, Gaza is under occupation, all borders, sea and air is controlled by the "occupying forces", that's why some regarded as a "prison". Water, food, electricity, tax, everything is controlled by the occupying forces. I don't know what you regard as occupation, but I see no other answer to that.

Even financial aid is confiscated by the occupying forces, the financial aid is meant to help the dire Gazan economy, and help with the rebuilding, you know, when the "occupying forces" decided that it was time once again to practice their high tech weapons against a defenseless population, oddly, the media continued saying that Hamas broke that cease fire which lead to the brutal assault, but then they were force to admit that the "occupying forces" were the ones who broke the cease fire.

It is easy to believe blindly, but then hypocrisy kicks in. You'll end up being a hypocrite because you'll believe your favoring side blindly, what ever excuses they lay on your table, no matter how many times, no matter how many lives, no matter how much destruction, you'll still believe it, but then you'll refuse to believe the opponents blindly.

reply to post by DJAghetto

But THAT Iran was before your time. Back then, Iran was a moderate, more peaceful, developing country that wasn’t hell-bent on taking over the Middle East.

Iran ? Developing ? Just like Iraq developing now ?

Iran was just run by a pupet called Shah and all we could get was pet on the back. And Iran is more independent and so developing than it was then.

Their economy is sinking, the sanctions are piling up, they’re attempting to “stand up” to the Americans, and the country is on the brink of civil war. It’s a shame…

Excuse me . What is the name of the planet you live on ? Sanctions make us move faster toward independence. and the only true part you said was "the sanctions are piling up".

“Zionism” already happened. The goal of Zionism was to create a homeland for Jews. That goal has already been accomplished, back in 1948. Had the Arab countries accepted the 1947 Partition Plan and made peace with Israel, there would be peace between Israel and Palestine today.

Zionism hasn't accomplished taking lands from Nile till Furat , and is just moving toward it.

The fact is , even Arabs knew what was the plan of Israel and settling down with Israel meant also handing over their country to Israel. Because Israel would not settle down and will move to take all the lands it could.

US , UK and Israel were thinking "WE will go there , we will say we are friends , then we will take the land by force while claiming we are friends". But the didn't accomplished. Maybe they should have done that 500 years ago when communication was not developed as today is.

Or the time UK was dividing tribes and nations in different countries to have the key to divide and conquer.

But they chose the wrong time and they won't succeed.

Israel can live with Arabs in harmony. It has in the past and it still does. A good example would be the Arab population of Israel. They are a big part of Israeli society. They have parliament members, reporters, football players on the national team, etc. Living in peace is POSSIBLE. However, there are many Arabs/Muslims who are not willing to co-exist with Jews as equals. That is the main problem. Seriously... If you want to blame someone for the current situation of the Palestinians, look no further than their Arab brethren

Another mistake you are making is generalizing Saudi Arabia with Arab world. The only country wants Israel in Middle East is the US pet , Saudi Arabia.

Oh maybe I better say , the Saudi king alone.

Originally posted by Planet teleX
reply to post by DJAghetto

 

However, there are many Arabs/Muslims who are not willing to co-exist with Jews as equals.

I'm drawing a parallel here: I see a similarity between the Iranians not wishing to be integrated with the Israelis and the Europeans having a hard time accepting immigrants.

I hope this isn't deemed insulting somehow. Purely observation

Maybe Europeans don't welcome immigrants from a certain group or tribe who plan to take over their homes.

Then they have the right to not welcome immigrants.

Originally posted by Patriotsrevenge
reply to post by hmdphantom

 

The history of Israel being ran and occupied by the Jews goes back long before video and even paper books so nice try. Even Amidinanut admitted that the land belonged to the Jews but then turned around and blamed the Jewish government for today's problems. It was in his first U.S. interview but TPTB took that part out after it was live on TV.

And history is not a good reason to taking the lands over.

Or you should let Iran take over all these lands as parts of the Persian empire in the time of Hakhamaneshian.



But Iran is not doing it because it was long ago. long long ago.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by hmdphantom

 

An Israeli military spokeswoman said the target was "a terrorist squad that was attempting to place an explosive device by the security fence" in the second such incident this year.

IDF Liars!

How many times are they going to use that excuse?

One of many recent examples:

An Air Force jet carried out a strike against a rocket cell in the northern Gaza Strip on Friday morning seconds before it fired rockets at Israel. The IDF Spokesperson's Unit said that the aircraft hit two terrorists and succeeded in foiling the attempted rocket attack.

www.ynetnews.com...

The liars can bomb anyone they feel and use the excuse of "they were about to fire a rocket at us".

Lying POS cowards.

Unless you can prove that, you are simply making up facts yourself out of thin air. Are you not? Is that not lying?

Can you prove that they were not setting up a bomb? If not, how do you know who is lying?

I don't know, so I won't pretend to know. Either side or both may be lying.

Unless of course you were there? Where you there? Are you an eye witness?

edit on 1/18/2012 by Blaine91555 because: (no reason given)

Since he was not eyewitness in Guantanamo or Al-Quraib prison , he couldn't be there to know about what Israelis do neither.

We have history here to review and that is what we basically lean on.

I find it quite amusing that most of the members who preach Israeli hatred also get blubbery emotional about living in peace and loving all members of the human race. You guys forgot your stick to beat this dead horse again.

reply to post by hmdphantom


You of course include the history of the Hamas Charter, the Suicide Bombers and the thousands of missiles being lobbed into residential neighborhoods over the last couple of decades?

When both sides act badly, what then?

I do know when a person says they know something for a fact, they are lying if they do not or could not know it for a fact. In this case only those involved know.

The biggest lie is that either side is acting right. How can they when their leaders are insane.

I can however read the Hamas Charter for instance and I know it was reaffirmed according to Hamas themselves. I do know you have to be insane to want to wipe another culture off the face of the earth, or brainwashed by evil people. I do know that Israel is surrounded in such a way that only the threat of retaliation keeps them alive. I do know that genuine hate directed at all Jews is rampant and has been for a long, long time.

I do know that Islamic Extremists mainly kill other Muslims and kill far more Muslims than any war we have been involved in. How often do we see anyone complaining about that? Not very often it seems. That says something to me. Since Islamic Extremists are in fact slaughtering other Muslims over minor differences, how much more wrong can their views of the Jews be? Why Islam does not self police I can only wonder at.

In this case it's a matter of likelihood. I'd say its two to one that those killed where planting a bomb. I can't know that so I won't say I know it for a fact or call anyone a liar. That would make me a liar.

Based on the evidence, if Israel did not exist, the extremists would simply keep killing their fellow Muslims like they have been doing for a long, long time now.

Check me out on this. The victims of most bombings in the Middle East are in fact Muslims.

I have more than a few Muslim freinds here now and enjoy them greatly. They all seem to tell me the same thing, that they love it here and would not go back. More than once they have said to me that those people are crazy. I'll take them at their word. I find the Muslims I know to be honest, friendly and not at all wanting to change me or force their beliefs on me.

If my rationality upsets some, so be it. I'm over being amazed at the hate I see here and all over the world. The lies and spin no longer surprise me either. It's just the way the world is. It's greatly exaggerated here due to the nature of ATS.

There are bad Jews, bad Muslims, bad Buddhists, Bad Hindu's, Bad Atheists .................(where is that infinity symbol on my keyboard?)

By the way, remind me why two wrongs make a right? I forget?

reply to post by Blaine91555

You of course include the history of the Hamas Charter, the Suicide Bombers and the thousands of missiles being lobbed into residential neighborhoods over the last couple of decades?

The fact you refuse to see is that Israel occupied Palestine and they are the ones who disturbed peace in the first place.

Muslims are not doing well , but is that going to legitimate the occupation of Palestinian's land ?

Originally posted by Swills
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Overkill is Israel's middle name.

These numbers from each source aren't a complete match but they do paint a picture.

Israelis and Palestinians Killed in the Current Violence

www.ifamericaknew.org...

The last two years have been less deadly, by a significant margin, than the past years.

I really appreciate the additional work you put into it. You make a pretty clear case for how much farther the Israelis do carry their side of the fighting for sheer casualty counts and, yeah, overkill is a fair word. Yet, you're certainly acknowledging the fact it's a two sided fight. That does make the numbers that much more interesting to look over. So much death and misery.... (sigh)

Maybe I'm just getting older and the whole thing isn't half as "fun" to watch as it once was to me, but I sure miss the peace time nation I spent most of my life in. Let the Middle East kill each other off if they're that determined to do it. We just need our people AND support out of there before it all starts.

Originally posted by Planet teleX
reply to post by DJAghetto

 

However, there are many Arabs/Muslims who are not willing to co-exist with Jews as equals.

I'm drawing a parallel here: I see a similarity between the Iranians not wishing to be integrated with the Israelis and the Europeans having a hard time accepting immigrants.

I hope this isn't deemed insulting somehow. Purely observation

Iranians don't need to be integrated with the Israelis, but they can at least recognize Israel and sign a peace treaty with them. That way, there will be less violence. Iran have ties with Venezuela, but do you see Iranians acting like Latinos?

Europeans have a different problem. Their "Open Door Immigration Policy" is backfiring at them. They fear that their own continent will turn into the Middle East and be under Muslim rule.

These are two different situations. You're comparing apples and oranges.

reply to post by Blaine91555

I do know that Islamic Extremists mainly kill other Muslims and kill far more Muslims than any war we have been involved in. How often do we see anyone complaining about that? Not very often it seems. That says something to me. Since Islamic Extremists are in fact slaughtering other Muslims over minor differences, how much more wrong can their views of the Jews be? Why Islam does not self police I can only wonder at.

Want to know extremists , read about who made Wahhabis and who made Al-Qaeda.

ATS

And on this thread I have written much.

ATS 2

And after you read it , and after you did your own investigations , come back and tell me who made this situation ?

Who is funding Al-Qaeda ?

Who made the fake Islamic sect and what was the fruit of that tree ?

Who is funding Wahhabi schools in Pakistan ?

I hope you find what you want to know about the root of extremism and all the fruits in Middle East and out of Middle East.

I will make a thread about them as I complete my studies about them.

Qur'an without true people interpreting it will be like a bird who has just one wing and can be taken every where easily.

Qur'an confess itself :

HE IS WHO SENT DOWN TO YOU THE BOOK; SOME OF ITS VERSES ARE FUNDAMENTALS, (CLEAR AND EVIDENT IN MEANING) THEY ARE THE MOTHER OF THE BOOK (THESE ARE THE FOUNDATION OF THE BOOK, AND COMPLEXITIES OF OTHER VERSES ARE INTERPRETED AND CLEARED WITH REFERENCE TO THESE FUNDAMENTALS) AND SOME OTHER (OF THE VERSES) ARE AMBIGUOUS. BUT THOSE IN WHOSE HEARTS IS PERVERSITY, THEY FOLLOW THE AMIBGUOUS PART SEEKING DISSENSION, AND SEEKING TO PARAPHRASE IT. (WITH ALLIGURACAL EXPLANATIONS) BUT NO ONE KNOWS THE HIDDEN MEANING EXCEPT ALLAH, AND THOSE WHO ARE WELL - GROUNDED IN KNOWLEDGE WHO SAY: ``WE BELIEVE IN IT. ALL ARE FROM OUR LORD.'' AND NONE DO MIND, SAVE MEN OF UNDERSTANDINGS.

3-7

And sorry I couldn't read all your post in the first time.

Originally posted by insaan
reply to post by DJAghetto

 

I don't like correcting people, but it has to be done from time to time. It is completely false to claim there is no occupation, the whole of Palestine is under occupation, Gaza is under occupation, all borders, sea and air is controlled by the "occupying forces", that's why some regarded as a "prison". Water, food, electricity, tax, everything is controlled by the occupying forces. I don't know what you regard as occupation, but I see no other answer to that.

First, define the borders of "Palestine".

Second, the Gaza Strip is NOT under occupation. The Strip is under the authority of the Hamas and they are ones who control the destiny of its own citizens. You forget that the Strip shares a border with Egypt. Are they under Egyptian "occupation", too? Or, do you simply not even know where the Gaza Strip is located?

Israel does control its owns borders with the Strip and has placed a weapons blockade/embargo ever since Hamas took power. Israel supplies the Strip with water and electricity, because the Egyptians don't want to provide it. Gazans do NOT pay tax to Israel. They pay tax to Hamas. The airspace is controlled by Israel in agreement with the Oslo Accords. Where do you get your information from? CNN?

Even Israelis consider the Strip a "prison", because Hamas treats its people like complete sh*t. But then again, this is what the Gazans voted for in 2007... Hamas has it easy. They can treat their people like crap and just blame the Jews, oops I mean "Zionists", for it. Don't worry, the sheeple will believe...

Even financial aid is confiscated by the occupying forces, the financial aid is meant to help the dire Gazan economy, and help with the rebuilding, you know, when the "occupying forces" decided that it was time once again to practice their high tech weapons against a defenseless population, oddly, the media continued saying that Hamas broke that cease fire which lead to the brutal assault, but then they were force to admit that the "occupying forces" were the ones who broke the cease fire.

Israel gives the Fatah tax money and the World gives it financial aid, but not to the Hamas. Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by most of the World and is therefore blocked from receiving that aid. The Fatah is not a violent entity like Hamas and is willing co-exist and co-operate with Israel. Look at the difference between the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Parts of the West Bank is still under IDF rule and they still live better than the Gazans. It basically comes down to what the Palestinian leaders want. Destruction? Or peace?

Hamas broke the truce a day before it was supposed to end and the IDF responded 5 days later. The IDF launched Operation Cast Lead a few days after that. Do some research.

It is easy to believe blindly, but then hypocrisy kicks in. You'll end up being a hypocrite because you'll believe your favoring side blindly, what ever excuses they lay on your table, no matter how many times, no matter how many lives, no matter how much destruction, you'll still believe it, but then you'll refuse to believe the opponents blindly.

I know how you feel. The amount of time and effort, that the Arab/Muslim World spend teaching their children to hate Jews, Israel, Westerners and non-Muslims, ensures that there will never be peace...