Is Bob Lazar telling the truth?

Originally posted by schuyler
In answer to your question, we know that sometimes, he lied. That doesn't mean he didn't tell the truth about some stuff. He did not earn a Masters at MIT. He did not earn a Masters at Cal Tech. He says the government "disappeared" him, but his story doesn't check out internally, i.e.: He contradicts his own self without any government intervention. The only professor he says he had at MIT, where he can't even remember when he graduated, turns out to have been a professor at a community college he attended. His grades in high school were not sufficient to get him into MIT, and nobody anywhere remembers him.

On the other hand, we do have a W-2, which may be fake because the employer name is wrong, which purports to show less than $1000 earned, which might be two weeks work. he has supplied no record of his work himself, but his name really is in a phone book of the area, where he is listed as a contractor employee. Here's the UFO Watchdog article on him (Note: I wrote some of this myself.)

Bottom line is that some of his claims are definitely bogus, but that does not prove all of his claims are. He may have had his experiences as he says and then simply exaggerated his own background. It may be as innocent as that.

edit on 1/17/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

I think the UFO Watchdog article should simply declare Bob Lazar's story to be a lie because it came from somebody who obviously likes to tell a whopper.

That is the Papoose Mountain facility of Groom Lake. Not much is known about it, though it may be used to observe the IR signature of aircraft flying over the base. The facility is well known. In fact, you can see the light on the top of the hill from the ET highway, as shown in this photograph.

This image is done with a big of image processing since the light is very faint. It is a combination of a long exposure image to find light sources, which is then inverted to turn the white light source to black, then stacked on another image shot with moonlight. However with binocs and no moon, this facility can be seen with the naked eye. Papoose is at the number 3.


You can also see it from Tikaboo, though it doesn't photograph very well for some reason.

Just how many threads do we need on Lazar? Remember, he claimed to have a sample of element 115, but never delivered on it. Hey, maybe he lost his element 115 in a move. Or he needs to clean his sock drawer and retrieve it.

Originally posted by Cosmic911

Originally posted by MrUncreated
He did take a lie detector test and pass with flying colors. So either he knows how to beat one, he's crazy, or he's telling the truth.

Polygraph tests are not permitted as evidence in U.S. courts so the credibility of such tests is questionable at best.

As far as polygraphs are concerned, one aspect of a traditional polygraph is of any so-called "test" it is extraordinarily and almost entirely subjective. Unlike a DNA test, or conventional lab test, where you have a value that is compared to a set of norms, or for DNA you compare a visual image, like a complex graph. Consider even the MMPI; the Minnesota multi-phasic personality inventory, a dreaded 500 question test (roughly, when in full form), that goes back to the 1940''s. Though it's been "updated" and despite giving anyone who takes it the distinct impression it's the shrinks who are in need of therapy, it is well established that it can provide a basic psychological profile with fair accuracy, provided other methods like asking the right questions, in the right way are also used.

But it's also very culturally biased, and many will feel like they need to take a shower after slogging through what seem like disjointed, "Weird if not creepy" questions. Personally I feel you can "get inside someones head" with greater relevance by having a casual conversation with someone. (The best "interrogators" "interrogate" someone by "casually" just sitting down and having a cup of coffee with the target individual. So it's sneaky, the more spontaneous it seems, like sitting next to someone waiting to catch, or on a flight, it's also much more effective, IMO ).

But I have heard from a few people who as part of some , usually routine, annual investigation, are in an environment were it's done frequently, like intelligence, that an experienced polygrapher has an uncanny ability to get an accurate "read" of someone's level of truthfulness. But were talking at LEAST 10 years experience or more. Among other things they have to recognize the normal apprehension in the physiological activity of anyone (normal or as mentioned not a sociopath) taking a polygraph. Your expected to be a little nervous, and if not thats a red flag. Then theres the fact some people are very good liars, given no incentive some people PREFER to lie, it's not that unknown a trait. Also the idea that certain drugs, like valium can "fool" the box (actually the guy interpreting the results) is not as helpful as many think. It's also something that is in itself is detectable by experienced people even without a drug test, which is sometimes standard procedure anyway. After all many people are also on certain medication's for legitimate reasons plus the ones that may have an affect, also affect the entire session, not just certain answers, which usually just present as inconclusive. Often there not even the drugs people would think about.

So all this means is of all types of "tests" I can't think of any that so depend on the experience and subjective ability so much as a polygraph. Very, very few are really good at doing this, but the best are close to amazing. With al my babbling, what about Lazar? Clearly his credibility is close to zilch, but a few odd things do pop up. Like his W-2 for an Office of Navel Intelligence contractor. This could be, though I doubt it, a very good example of how we create and use disinformation, with OR WITHOUT his knowledge or co-operation of the "actor". This guy speaks well but can't remotely hold his weight when it comes to "talking like a real scientist". He's demolished by a few questions any BASIC physics student should know in his sleep. And when you check credentials, going back to high school this guy was a lousy student all around. Ad to that his story is just too Walter Middy, and not a very clever one. Way to many holes.

So my cheap opinion for what it's worth? I give a 10% probability its disinformation and he was an unwilling dupe. And 90% likely its just bull s***. But it's the kind of bs so many of us WANT to believe, it kind of sells itself.

Originally posted by cloudyday

I think the UFO Watchdog article should simply declare Bob Lazar's story to be a lie because it came from somebody who obviously likes to tell a whopper.

Well, it's a judgment call. There is some stuff that is undeniably correct and some stuff that is undeniably not correct. That's why he got a grey box. UFO Watchdog is considered "archived" these days and is no longer being updated. It's a huge task and the owner has had enough of the field, though he did some marvelous work exposing Ed Dames, Sean David Morton, Karl K Korf, and "Dr." Jonathan Reed, among others. I also did my stint with the material under somewhat unusual circumstances and ultimately decided the hassle was not worth my time.

reply to post by CrazyRaccoon



Watch this video...

reply to post by shushu


Please, I already debunked it that video. Here we go again. The first facility is the AOF at Yucca Dry Lake. It is not the supposed S-4. The facility is fully acknowledged by the NTS/NNSS/NNSA or whatever you want to call it. AOF stands for Aerial Operations Facility. Here is my thread on it:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


The 2nd item doesn't look like much of anything to me.

The third UFO is a passive repeater known as a Microflect.

www.valmont.com...
www.lazygranch.com...

Most urban areas run telco through fiber, but in rural areas, there is still a lot of point to point microwave. These Microflects are quite common. I suppose not common enough to some armchair google earth youtuber.

At least 99.999% of youtube "research" is junk.

reply to post by gariac


On Google Earth... google Mercury, Nevada 89023.

To the SW you'll notice an airport. What name do you see? Now enter Area 51. It's pretty obvious (to me anyway) that you don't know what you're talking about.

reply to post by gariac


I know 100% what I am talking about. I was the one that hounded the NTS PAO to get information on the AOF three or four years ago when it showed up on Google Earth. I phoned the Nevada environmental office to see why there was no EIS. Oh, and I've been to Mercury.

Perhaps you could explicitly state what I don't know rather than make some random statement.

reply to post by gariac

Please, I already debunked it that video. Here we go again. The first facility is the AOF at Yucca Dry Lake. It is not the supposed S-4. The facility is fully acknowledged by the NTS/NNSS/NNSA or whatever you want to call it. AOF stands for Aerial Operations Facility. Here is my thread on it:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You claim to have debunked the video I posted... then provided a 3-11-2010 link claiming S4 is actually Desert Rock (Airport). I say ur full of it. S4 and Desert Rock (Airport) are two different locations. As far as your search for info from gov't sources... they enjoy nothing more than giving enquiring minds the official run around. I speak from experience. They gave you faulty information... INTENTIONALLY. And you sucked it all up... din't-cha??? Because we now have access to Aug 2011 satellite photos that tell a different story.

And then there's this... which is actually S4 ( N36 55 42.02 W116 0 31.40 ) Do you run in circles much???

And to top it all off... you didn't even notice that the voice in the video was actually that of Bob Lazar.

reply to post by shushu


Shushu, the coordinates you posted are for the Yucca Lake airstrip in Area 6. This is not S-4.

Lazar's so-called S-4 facility was supposed to be built into the side of a hill next to Papoose Lake, which is between Yucca Flat and Groom Lake. Unfortunately for Bob's credibility, there is apparently no facility at Papoose Lake and there is no hill directly adjacent to the lakebed.

reply to post by Shadowhawk


Yes... the now defunct Yucca Airstrip. Replaced by a newer airstrip (name unknown) that is located at S4... according to the video narrated by none other than Bob Lazar himself.

I know what you're talking about. It was located at/near Papoose Mtn. I followed directions to find what I thought was supposedly S4 via Google Earth. I did locate something... but after viewing this video... I have determined that what I had previously found was not S4... and I am no longer able to re-locate it because I didn't remember to save the coordinates. Now how stupid is that???

Originally posted by CrazyRaccoon
reply to post by schuyler

 

What do you make of the picture? um yeah i know he lied about most stuff... like UFO's use anti-gravity to fly in space and they got in contact with the ship by radio.

1) The anti-gravity force field around the ship would distort the radio signals

2) you can't fly in space with anti-gravity because there is no GRAVITY is space

3) the discs he saw must have been some kind of experimental aircraft....assuming he really did go there

Gravity is everywhere... How do you think sattelites orbit the Earth? Why do missions to the outer solar system use planets as a slingshot?

If there is no gravity in space, then how does Mercury, or Pluto seem to be stuck in an orbit around our Sun?

One Word. Gravity.

Originally posted by InsideYourMind
One Word. Gravity.

One word: irrelevant.

In the context of what we are discussing this issue is not particularly important and has already been addressed. Of course, there's a big IF before all this, but these machines have never been see to fly in space anyway, so whether or not there is enough gravitational force to support a propulsion system of a craft is really a red herring. Reports of them are that they are quite small, so the idea that they would be used for interstellar travel is almost ludicrous. If we continue to concentrate on that idea I believe we will be led astray. It is probably unprofitable for us to even concentrate on that part of the equation right now. We need to prove or disprove their very existence.

We seem to have devolved into a running argument over the location of some airfields. Can we get to some conclusion on that part of it? How does that help us in context of Lazar "telling the truth?" I admit to being a bit lost here because I don't know the area at all.

reply to post by shushu


I watched the video. The person narrating it is an idiot. He says it is S-4 but he is wrong. Also, his purpose is to show the locations of "three UFOs" on Google Earth. The three features he indicates area simply a semicircular feature at the front of the Area 6 hangar (later covered by a clamshell door once construction was complete), a white pile of debris near a drill hole on Yucca Flat, and a microwave reflector on Papoose Mountain near Area 51. Bob Lazar would never make such stupid mistakes.

reply to post by shushu


I'm with Shadowhawk here. That is the NTS AOF. It didn't even exist when Lazar was spreading his BS. The other Yucca runway was on the lake bed itself, not paved. It was designated KUCC in the FAA listing until the NTS/NNSA/N2S2/NNSA decided to have their airports removed from the FAA directory. The new runway has a listed of NVH11 in some documents. That may not be official.

I hope you agree that the third UFO in the video is a Microflect. You can see it from the Power Line Overlook. Trust me, it doesn't fly. ;-) They are all around the range. The only interesting thing about that Microflect is it is not listed in the FCC database. Even though a Microflect isn't a real transmitter, it will have RF bouncing off it, so it needs to be registered IF (big if) it is using a commercial frequency. I have studied it a bit since I found it year ago (actually Trevor Paglen spotted it), and never did figure out who is using it. The Microflect is in the view of Bald Mountain, but the reflection didn't make much sense to me.

KUCC still exists on a lot of websites that didn't get the message to drop it.
www.gcmap.com...

If you go over to airnav.com, which mirrors the FAA feed, the designation has been dropped.

reply to post by Shadowhawk


Bob is one clever dude. I don't believe his stuff, but the guy isn't stupid. I would classify Bob as smart enough to be dangerous.

I think his only mistake about the UFO story was not locating S-4 in a harder to see location. Basically the side of Papoose he claims has the base is viewed by thousand of people a day. At the time he made up his story, there was no USGS imagery of the NTS. If he picked Yucca Lake right by the mountain, nobody could have viewed the area.

My Bonanza Peak shots of the general area were in this thread. You can just barely see the UAV hangars.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by shushu
I say ur full of it. S4 and Desert Rock (Airport) are two different locations. As far as your search for info from gov't sources... they enjoy nothing more than giving enquiring minds the official run around. I speak from experience. They gave you faulty information... INTENTIONALLY. And you sucked it all up... din't-cha??? Because we now have access to Aug 2011 satellite photos that tell a different story.

Asking official sources for information on classified programs and sites. Surely not! Are you serious? :shk:

reply to post by Pimander


The only mind control here is the propaganda, be it very clever, spewed by one Bob Lazar. Those that believe his story need to look at it with an analytical mind, rather than just join the Church of Lazar.

The government sources are quite accurate regarding the NTS/NNSA/N2S2. It has environmental concerns. They couldn't even drop a fuel air bomb on the site due to environmental concerns. (Example: Divine Strake) Even the AOF had an environmental study, though totally underhanded since the only input was the DRI. At least they went through the motions of doing a study. The DRI did the EIS for the Tikaboo spy cam. Clearly it is a "captured" organization that rubber stamps whatever the feds want.

I have no doubt bob lazar was telling the truth. He passed the lie detector test with flying colors and others have collaborated his findings later on, not necessarily about s-4, but related ufo research projects.

Alien interview taken by some guy called "victor"(probably just codename) and smuggled out of s-4 from area 51, nevada test site. DNI stands for department of naval intelligence, which is also the department bob lazar worked for.



his majestic-12 badge...


and his w-2 paystub...


DNI in everything, which is also what the scottish administrator/hacker called gary mckinnon managed to hack into when he said he saw the navy's space fleet. What kind of naval ships travel in space? star trek stuff

Gary McKinnon

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gary McKinnon (born 10 February 1966) is a Scottish[1] systems administrator and hacker who has been accused of what one U.S. prosecutor claims is the "biggest military computer hack of all time,"[2] although McKinnon himself states that he was merely looking for evidence of free energy suppression and a cover-up of UFO activity and other technologies potentially useful to the public. After a series of legal proceedings in England, McKinnon is currently fighting extradition to the United States.

Alleged crime

McKinnon is accused of hacking into 97 United States military and NASA computers over a 13-month period between February 2001 and March 2002, using the name 'Solo'.

The US authorities claim he deleted critical files from operating systems, which shut down the US Army’s Military District of Washington network of 2,000 computers for 24 hours, as well as deleting US Navy Weapons logs, rendering a naval base's network of 300 computers inoperable after the September 11th terrorist attacks. McKinnon is also accused of copying data, account files and passwords onto his own computer. US authorities claim the cost of tracking and correcting the problems he caused was over $700,000.[3]