Fluoride Linked to #1 Cause of Death in New Research

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by NeoVain

 

NeoVain! Slow down!

First of all, the pineal gland calcifies with age. Since we know that fluoride binds to calcium then it is only natural that some will accumulate in the pineal gland.

Ever wondered WHY it calcifies with age? Thats right... the build up of flouride! Not everyone have a calcified gland, did you know not everyone uses flouride? Of course in the U.S it´s pretty hard to avoid... beginning to see the problem?

Secondly, and most important, we want the fluoride to bind to the bones and teeth. That is the goal of fluoridation.

No! WE DO NOT WANT THAT! That is something BAD!
Guess you didn´t pay attention to this thread much.... sigh, guess i have to explain this again
Flouride, when it binds to your bones, increases their MASS(DENSITY), but decreses their STRENGTH(Makes them more brittle)! This means that you get fatter and fatter bones, but brittler and brittler with age. Hence why grandma breaks her hip THEN falls, rather than the other way around. Also maybe this is part of the explanation why americans are so fat?

reply to post by MagnumOpus


I hope this isn't your Magnum Opus. (yes I know someone said it already but it is too good a line to not copy)

Perkins was proven a hoax long ago on threads a lot more worthy than this. Search around for those so we don't have to keep re-hashing the same tired arguments over and over again.

Thanks.

Originally posted by NeoVain
Ever wondered WHY it calcifies with age? Thats right... the build up of flouride! Not everyone have a calcified gland, did you know not everyone uses flouride? Of course in the U.S it´s pretty hard to avoid... beginning to see the problem?

Nope. This is false. Fluoride has never been proven as the cause of the calcification.

In older animals, the pineal often is contains calcium deposits ("brain sand").

www.vivo.colostate.edu...
en.wikipedia.org...

No! WE DO NOT WANT THAT! That is something BAD!
Guess you didn´t pay attention to this thread much.... sigh, guess i have to explain this again
Flouride, when it binds to your bones, increases their MASS, but decreses their DENSITY! This means that you get fatter and fatter bones, but brittler and brittler with age. Hence why grandma breaks her hip THEN falls, rather than the other way around. Also maybe this is part of the explanation why americans are so fat?

Also false. This only happens when you greatly exceed the safe dose. I'm not saying it never happens, but for the vast majority this is not a problem.

Originally posted by kokoro

Becasue Im a girl?

Ah, Now I see the problem. Dont worry little boy, you arent the first to feel threatened by an intelligent, strong woman.

And if YOU go back several pages I quoted the reasearch as you asked for an completely obliterated all doubt that your reasearch article interpretation is bogus. Of course, you didnt respond to that. Guess what? its ok to admit you were wrong, in fact, Id have more respect for you if you did and added a least a little honesty to this thread.

I must admit i was wrong, they DID use the word plaque there. Although i am not sure the rest of the interpretation was wrong, since i did not have the time to read through all that, and wikipedia was down when i originally saw that post (which i needed to understand some of the technical jargon used) so i decided to put it on hold at the time then i forgot about it. I still do not understand how you found a way to expand the original link into such a detailed report though, all i ever saw was the short version with objectives, conclusions etc where the word "plaque" was not used.

So yes i will give you that one, good job!

Now, will you respect me?

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

I hope this isn't your Magnum Opus. (yes I know someone said it already but it is too good a line to not copy)

Perkins was proven a hoax long ago on threads a lot more worthy than this. Search around for those so we don't have to keep re-hashing the same tired arguments over and over again.

Thanks.

======

Ah, now we see the language of the disinformation types that frequent Forums. The Hoax term use is a real sign.

It is very easy to pick up a disinformation group working a Forum and trying to shake readers views off a very hot topic that places like the ADA don't want known.

So, if there were real researchers anywhere around these parts and the discussion was this Charles Perkins book, then one, if they were honest and genuine, would do a simple Google search for that information and see what comes back. Did we see anyone do a google search for The Truth About Water Fluoridation Charles Eliot Perkins? Not one of the disinformation types did what any real person might do.

Lets do a Google Seach in front of the whole Forum's views and show the absolute intentional blindness aimed at by these disinformation methods that can't do a Googe Search. Some said Perkins didin't exist, said the book didn't exist and all manner of perfidity.

DO a search and read the top listing:

www.google.com...=psy-ab&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=The+Truth+About+Water+Fluoridation+Charles+Eliot+Perkins&pbx=1&oq=The+Truth+About+Water+ Fluoridation+Charles+Eliot+Perkins&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=27250l42734l0l44843l60l41l1l0l0l0l1641l13267l5-1.1.6.3l11l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf .osb&fp=8b6c04f6f6b326e6&biw=859&bih=554

"http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=The+Truth+About+Water+Fluoridation+Charles+Eliot+Perkins&pbx=1&oq=The+Truth+About+Water +Fluoridation+Charles+Eliot+Perkins&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=27250l42734l0l44843l60l41l1l0l0l0l1641l13267l5-1.1.6.3l11l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,c f.osb&fp=8b6c04f6f6b326e6&biw=859&bih=554"


=====

Clicking on the top item for this simple keyword search we find this:

www.soilandhealth.org...


This is a library site for out of print books for research purposes and anyone with half a mind can fill out the form and download a copy of the Perkins book in pdf format. Which proves the book exists, proves Perkins exists, proves he was considered a fluoride expert in those times.


And the bogus nonsense from these disinformation illiterates here could not do something so simple, so obvious, speaks to their intentions for deceit. imho

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Yeah, but if you actually read the book you'll see that he never mentions Nazis in it at all.

Did you read it?

Here, read this. It will explain everything for you concerning Perkins and the Nazi Fluoridation Myth. Once you're done get back to us.

onespeedbikerpolitico.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

Yeah, but if you actually read the book you'll see that he never mentions Nazis in it at all.

Did you read it?

Here, read this. It will explain everything for you concerning Perkins and the Nazi Fluoridation Myth. Once you're done get back to us.

onespeedbikerpolitico.blogspot.com...

Yes, I read it. Did you read the letter for request of clarification of the issues of the British given the fluoride issues by the Russians. Obviously, Perkins likely knew this was a classified issue at the time of the book's writing, and he didn't want to tie in his work at IG Farben. So, he skirted around the issue a bit, but included it via methods outside his wartime classified work.

However, when asked how he knew the issues of how the Russians told the British the fluoridation issues in a private letter, he gave much deeper detail in the letter's reply.

Which makes perfect sense. He would likely not been able to get the book published with the whole story of his work at IG Farben in an open book. These were the days they'd confiscate entire newspapers, books, and anything else they though was a national security issue leak.

Perhaps you need to read with comprehension skills. imho

reply to post by MagnumOpus


So now you're making excuses for why Perkins didn't mention Nazis in the book that purportedly says that Nazis used fluoridate.

Good luck.

Listen, the whole myth stems from this book that Perkins supposedly mentions Nazis in and he doesn't. End of story. It's a hoax.

Originally posted by TheComte

Originally posted by NeoVain
Ever wondered WHY it calcifies with age? Thats right... the build up of flouride! Not everyone have a calcified gland, did you know not everyone uses flouride? Of course in the U.S it´s pretty hard to avoid... beginning to see the problem?

Nope. This is false. Fluoride has never been proven as the cause of the calcification.

In older animals, the pineal often is contains calcium deposits ("brain sand").

www.vivo.colostate.edu...
en.wikipedia.org...

No! WE DO NOT WANT THAT! That is something BAD!
Guess you didn´t pay attention to this thread much.... sigh, guess i have to explain this again
Flouride, when it binds to your bones, increases their MASS, but decreses their DENSITY! This means that you get fatter and fatter bones, but brittler and brittler with age. Hence why grandma breaks her hip THEN falls, rather than the other way around. Also maybe this is part of the explanation why americans are so fat?

Also false. This only happens when you greatly exceed the safe dose. I'm not saying it never happens, but for the vast majority this is not a problem.

Both these FACTS have been extensively proven earlier in this thread, and by the links proved as far back as my original OP even, but since you seem to selectively read only what you need to support your disinfo campaign, i am not surprised you come up with such easily disprovable claims, like your previous one about flouride not accumilating in the body. Just don´t expect to be taken seriously from here on, your credibility is hereby void.

There are lots of other people that do real checking on these Russian and German methods of fluoride in work camps and they ask lots of others and they dig for the information and they make the necessary connections to substatiate these things happened and were known methods:

======

www.newswithviews.com...

GERMANS & RUSSIANS USED FLUORIDE TO MAKE PRISONERS 'STUPID & DOCIL
By: Devvy
May 14, 2005

-----

"While a member of the Communist Party, I attended Communist underground training schools outside the City of New York in the Bues Hall and 113 East Wells Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The East Wells Street School operated under the name of the Eugene Debs School. Here, under the tutoring of Eugene Dennis, M. Sparks, Morris Chyilds, Jack Kling and others, we were schooled in the art of revolutionary overthrow of the established Government.

"We discussed quite thoroughly the fluoridation of water supplies and how we were using it in Russia as a tranquilizer in the prison camps. The leaders of our school felt that if it could be induced into the American water supply, it would bring about a spirit of lethargy in the nation; where it would keep the general public docile during a steady encroachment of Communism. We also discussed the fact that keeping a store of deadly fluoride near the water reservoir would be advantageous during the time of the revolution, as it would give us opportunity to dump this poison into the water supply and either kill off the populace or threaten them with liquidation, so that they would surrender to obtain fresh water.

-------

"It is a matter of record that sodium fluoride has been used for behavior control of populations. In an "Address in reply to the Governor's Speech to Parliament," [Victorian Hanstard, August 12, 1987, Nexus, Aug/Sept 1995], Mr. Harley Rivers Dickinson, Liberal Party Member of the Victorian Parliament for South Barwon, Australia, made a statement on the historical use of fluorides for behavior control.

"Mr. Dickinson reveals that, "At the end of the Second World War, the United States Government sent Charles Elliot Perkins, a research worker in chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology, to take charge of the vast Farven chemical plants in Germany. While there, he was told by German chemists of a scheme which had been worked out by them during the war and adopted by the German General Staff. This scheme was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water. In this scheme, sodium fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination by slowly poisoning and narcotising a certain area of the brain, and will thus make him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. Both the Germans and the Russians added fluoride to the drinking water of prisoners of war to make them stupid and docile."

------

Some may think it's just a bunch of conspiracy fodder, but having read thousands of pages from hundreds of documents, both historical and from research, there's no doubt in my mind that fluoride is deadly and explains much about why Americans are so apathetic and lethargic about the very real dangers crushing our Republic. The American people simply have no will to resist and you can see it all across this country. Fluoride was introduced into the drinking water in this country around 1954. Think about it.

========

Now, we see research Journalists can find the issues, but the so called researhers that appear better discribed as disinformation illiterates can't find these cooberation issues either. imho


The so called researchers on ATS can't even read this Devvy Kidd article, which is very easily found.

I always wondered why they wanted us to drink 8 #ing canteens of water every day in basic training.......

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

So now you're making excuses for why Perkins didn't mention Nazis in the book that purportedly says that Nazis used fluoridate.

Good luck.

Listen, the whole myth stems from this book that Perkins supposedly mentions Nazis in and he doesn't. End of story. It's a hoax.

There was never a claim that perkins mentioned nazis in the book. Why don´t you re-read this thread a few time to get this into your head? The sole point of mentioning the book was to prove he existed and the letter was real. It is in the LETTER that he mentions the nazis. Your obvious attempts of intentional information pollution in this thread is appaling, imho.

Oh, brother. You two guys are very humourous indeed.

Let me ask you this? The Nazis were notorious for keeping accurate records, even so far as they were used against them at Nuremburg. Why no mention of this fluoridation scheme in the millions of written records captured after the war?

I really feel that no amount of evidence, or lack of it in your cases, will be enough to dispel your ignorance. So, feel free to carry on with your fantasies.

Originally posted by NeoVain

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by NeoVain

 

NeoVain! Slow down!

First of all, the pineal gland calcifies with age. Since we know that fluoride binds to calcium then it is only natural that some will accumulate in the pineal gland.

Ever wondered WHY it calcifies with age? Thats right... the build up of flouride! Not everyone have a calcified gland, did you know not everyone uses flouride? Of course in the U.S it´s pretty hard to avoid... beginning to see the problem?

Secondly, and most important, we want the fluoride to bind to the bones and teeth. That is the goal of fluoridation.

No! WE DO NOT WANT THAT! That is something BAD!
Guess you didn´t pay attention to this thread much.... sigh, guess i have to explain this again
Flouride, when it binds to your bones, increases their MASS, but decreses their DENSITY! This means that you get fatter and fatter bones, but brittler and brittler with age. Hence why grandma breaks her hip THEN falls, rather than the other way around. Also maybe this is part of the explanation why americans are so fat?

You are disseminating some seriously faulty information. The fact is you are getting excited for absolutely no reason.

Now I will go out on a limb here but judging from you writing it is safe to say you are not a doctor so take the time to read up on the subject WITHOUT the sensationalist web sites whose main objective is to increase traffic to their domain etc. It is similar to some tabloid rag, sure you may read it but that does not mean you have to believe it.

Check out the levels of fluoride from various countries and you may be surprised:

en.wikipedia.org...

Now if you go to college, get your medical degree, may take awhile, but then come back here and make demands.

Originally posted by NeoVain


I must admit i was wrong, they DID use the word plaque there. Although i am not sure the rest of the interpretation was wrong, since i did not have the time to read through all that, and wikipedia was down when i originally saw that post (which i needed to understand some of the technical jargon used) so i decided to put it on hold at the time then i forgot about it. I still do not understand how you found a way to expand the original link into such a detailed report though, all i ever saw was the short version with objectives, conclusions etc where the word "plaque" was not used.

So yes i will give you that one, good job!

Now, will you respect me?

edit on 19-1-2012 by NeoVain because: (no reason given)

So, what you had was the abstract, which is just kind of like an outline. You have to search for the full text version. I found it by finding the journal it was originally published in and they happened to have a full text version free online. This isn't true for a lot of journal articles but for future reference, you can find a lot of stuff through google scholar and it wouldn't hurt to get access to Pubmed or EBSCohost or some other medical lit. database.

Oh yes, and thank you for admitting u were wrong, I do appreciate it.

The disinformation types on this thread moan that nobody is telling the public about the fluoride problems and it isn't in the news, well some very high level experts in the Govt have been telling the story and making it very public.

Just why is it these whiners can't find the obvious that has been in the news and all around the Internet.

Could it be they don't want to tell the truth? Could it be that such blindness is the disinformation types goal?

I think that looks to be the case. imho


Consider Robert Carlton as a published researcher:

Cross DW, Carton RJ. Fluoridation: a violation of medical ethics and human rights. Int J Occup Environ Health. 2003 Jan-Mar;9(1):24-9.)

He isn't difficult to find, nor are his credentials being a former Sr. Scientist with EPA. He was also with Ft. Detrick, which doesn't like fluoride either:

====

www.doctoryourself.com...

“EPA has more than enough evidence to shut down fluoridation right now.” (Dr. Robert Carton)

“Fluoridation,” says former EPA senior scientist Robert J. Carton, PhD, “presents unacceptable risks to public health, and the government cannot prove its claims of safety. It is clear that fluoride is mutagenic, and that it may well cause cancer. EPA has attempted to silence scientists who do not follow the party line.” ( www.rvi.net... ) And with that, he is just warming up. “Fluoridation,” he adds, “constitutes unlawful medical research. It is banned in most of Europe; European Union human rights legislation makes it illegal.”



Dr. Carton has considerable experience as a risk assessment manager for the US Environmental Protection Agency, investigating asbestos, arsenic, hexachlorobenzene, hexachlorobutadiene, and, of course, cancer incidence. Then, for ten years, Dr. Carton was with the U.S. Army Medical Research and Materiel Command, Fort Detrick, Maryland. He was Chief of Environmental Compliance, responsible for environmental compliance of the Army’s medical research with the National Environmental Policy Act. He also managed the preparation of environmental assessments of biological and chemical defense laboratories throughout the U.S.. Diametrically opposite of the raving, fictional general in Dr. Strangelove, Bob Carton is the real deal: he has a B.A. in Chemistry, an M.S. in Environmental Science, and a Ph.D. in Environmental Science from Rutgers University.

=====

www.johnston-independent.com...


"Water fluoridation is the greatest case of scientific fraud of this century... if not of all time." Dr Robert Carton, former President of the Union of Government Scientists at the US Environmental Protection Agency.


=====

I've certainly read about this person in the news a lot, even in the published journals, and somehow these ATS disinformation bogus research types missed all the news?

MagnumOpus,

Finding one person or even one hundred who agree with you is not hard considering the worlds population is in the billions. It's good to discuss and study things, sometimes people say things that they know will get them noticed. I am not saying that is the case here but its like if you have a pond with 100 gold fish in it and one is fish is green which fish gets noticed?

Cite actual evidence that supports your position not someone who just agrees with you. These things are worth looking into but I cant say i agree with the title of this thread at all.

OOpps, some more experts backing the observation that fluoridation is bad news:

======

www.scribd.com...

Flouride causes Dental Fluorosis ( brown staining and pitting of teeth), Skeletal Fluorosis ( internal changes and weakening of bones) and non-skeletal conditions. There is not one scientific or laboratory study proving that flouride reduces tooth decay in humans. Tosay that flouride is good for teeth is a MYTH. No essential biological function has been proven in humans.( DoH agrees )Total fluoride exposure from all other sources, such as food, air pollution, flouridated dental products,etc, is ignored by the Dept. of Health when considering artificial flouridation. Dr Susheela proved, with scientific results and scanning electron-microscopephotographs, that fluoride ingestion has the following adverse effects:Red blood cells ( erythrocytes ) are killed prematurely, lowering haemoglobin and resulting in anaemia. As fluoride levels rise in thebody, calcium levels go down. Flouride induces pitting/cavity formation on the surface of tooth enamel.These cavities are distinctlydifferent from the cavities formed as a result of dental caries. The incidence of dental caries remains the same no matter how muchflouride is added to water. The gastro-intestinal tract mucosa is deranged ( the lining of the stomach and intestine ),resulting inirritable bowel syndrome complaints. Structural damage to the gastric mucosa caused by flouride can be rectified in 10-15 days byproviding pure water. Drugs are not required. Blood fluoride levels rise continuously with prolonged use of fluoridated toothpaste.In those who ingest fluoride-contaminated water and who use flouridated toothpaste, mouthwash,rinses,etc, the muscles, connectivetissue elements ( particularly the collagen fibres ) and bone tissues undergo degenerative changes. People lose their teeth andbecome edentulous at a relatively young age.Dr Susheela ended by saying that flouride causes still births, miscarriages and genetic damage. This is consistant with the findingsof Dr Albert Schatz, ( discoverer of steptomycin ) who stated in 1993 that artificial flouridation: "may well dwarf the thalidomidetragedy, which was dramatic because it produced crippled children who are living testimonials to what the drug has done. Many victims of artificial flouridation, on the other hand, die quietly during the first year of their lives, or at a later age under conditions where their deaths are attributed to some other cause." At the end of the meeting, the Minister asked: "Why haven't we seen these health problems in our fluoridated areas?"

=======

Supposedly there is evidence that it prevents teeth from rotting (cavities) and this was first noted in the late 40s. As far as i know, there are no real preventative measures for cavities in teeth aside from fluoride. Maybe there is something else we are not aware of right now. Once the dentist notices the cavity all they do is drill it and fill it.

Once these multiply and if you never go to a dentist your teeth rot and you can no longer eat food properly. If you have no access or little access to medical procedures you will have a seriously shortened life span just from not eating food properly. This may have contributed to the very low life expectancies in the past and even present.

Do you agree with this?

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Sigh.......no one here is saying that it cannot be bad at unchecked and very high levels. in fact, in India (where the scribd link paper comes from - 1984) there were serious problems related to too high fluoride in water. Thing is these were NATURAL sources of fluoride in the water, not added. I read about that the other night. That may explain what the paper is referring to and that stance. Feel free to correct anything you see as an error. Just going by what i read.