Does the Bible still pertain today?

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

Does the sun still shine?

Interesting you would have said this, and I just happened to read it. Just this morning I was thinking about all the theological bickering and confusion that occurs here every day.

and the origins of the "deity" worship.

The sun does still shine. The sun, The LIGHT OF THE WORLD, that enormous, flaming ball of fire that rises each morning, and sets each night.

It is the ONLY thing natural that humans can not look at without going blind (punishment, if you will, for purposes of this post)...the ONE AND ONLY thing we cannot stare at. The sun. That which lights up our days, warms our earth, nourishes the plants that we need to survive by their action of cleaning our air and furnishing our bodies with sustenance/fuel, enables us to see.

It stays longer during part of the year, and for shorter periods during which we become uncomfortable. From time to time, it bakes us, starves us of the water we need, the plants need, the earth needs, "murders" with its blistering, uncontrollable heat.

The sun.

I believe it makes absolute sense that at the very beginning of man's sentience, hundreds of thousands of years ago, the SUN, that terrifying, punishing, benevolent giver of life, was seen as a DEITY on which our survival depended.

Everything else of religious, worshipping thought came from that.

Change the spelling and then make it into something that is not a universal, but a guy, with a dad who rules over the sun and everything the sun makes possible.

Think about it.

Originally posted by jmotley

Originally posted by 547000
People hate the bible because of modern philosophies. Bible still pertains to today, talking about the foolishness of men's philosophies. But nowasday wise things are considered foolish and foolish things are considered wise.

So I'm foolish for believing that my wife is equal to me. I foolish for believing that a woman should not be forced to marry her rapist. I'm foolish for believing that slavery in any form should be outlawed and condemned. But yet out of Jesus's own mouth he said slavery was ok, he said that woman were not equal to men. Here is the link www.enlightenedseeker.wordpress.com I cover this in detail.

You were brought up with humanist and marxist ideals. In a hundred years from now, probably, denying teenager their sexual autonomy will seem prudish. We call it pedophilia now and we will seem as crazy.

Originally posted by jmotley
After doing research into the bible I have determined that this is not the work of God, but the work of man being passed off as divine. I have read so many things in the bible that just my skin crawl. From the rules for slaves, to the treatment of women. I have asked several people about this and I always get some variation of the same 2 answers. This does not pertain anymore or that's the old testiment so it doesn't matter. I'm sorry but how can a book that was supposedly written for the protection of our immortal soul become out of date. Is it simply well we have computers now so we can cross this out, or the government says woman are equal to men so no more sexism. The Bible clearly states its stance on this. It clearly states that the old testiment still stands. So how do you a law abiding citizen and a Christian obey both the bible and the law of man. Women how many of you are willing to bow down and know your place as the bible says. There are many verses that say this. If you want to see the quotes go here. www.enlightenedseeker.wordpress.com I cover some of these verses in detail.

jmotley, I will attempt to answer your questions.

Let's discuss this in a rational manner without the religious mindset, ok? We can look at this in a very historical way because it is a history of the peoples and nations that existed in the time it was written.

You start off with talking about the rules for slavery. We know that all nations in that time had slaves, that is nothing new. But you also have to consider that when the laws of Moses were given, those Israelites were former slaves themselves. They had been in Egypt 430 years and only traveled in the wilderness 40 years before entering into Canaan. So the law was given just after those people were slaves and most of them still had the memories of being slaves. When you read the entire laws regarding slavery, we know that the Israelites were not permitted to treat them inhumanely, as opposed to the peoples around them. We also know the laws stated that slaves were to be given their own freedom, or release after 7 years. This is where people got the idea for Indentured Servitude.

We also know that the Israelites were forbidden to have piercings or tattoos, because those were indicative as a mark of being a slave. This is proven in historical documents from all nations that had slaves, and they all did. But if you read the laws as they were all given, the Israelites were never permitted to treat their slaves or servants inhumanely.

Now the laws regarding women, you pull the scripture that all Muslims do, to attempt to accuse the Israelites of something they did not do, and which Mohammed did do. You pull the verse from Numbers to say that those virgins were taken as sexual slaves...which is a completely false statement. The Israelite men were forbidden to partake of sexual slavery, or sexual acts involving temple prostitution. Those nations they went into all had religions that included temple prostitution. You need to read any book on the history of sex in the ancient world.

It may be convenient to look at the laws as being something of sole punishment, but the laws were not given in that regard. The laws were given to allow justice for the victims. Rape was a crime and Moses addressed this very clearly. If a woman was raped, the man was to be stoned to death, unless...and please understand this...unless she chose to agree to marry him. This showed a sense of mercy toward the perpetrator and it provided a way for a child to be taken care of, in the event she should become pregnant through the act. But if she did not want to marry her rapist, he was to be stoned to death. I think you conveniently forgot to read that part.

The laws regarded justice for the victims. The Israelites were not permitted to partake in these things, but if they did, then they had to make it right for their victims. Rape was a crime and the mistreatment of women was a crime. If you have read the Bible and thought the Bible endorses mistreatment, then you have not read it at all, but listened to others mistranslate it. Did they eventually have slaves? Yes, some did, but that was the norm for all the world in those days. Did the Bible endorse slavery? Absolutely not. Did the Bible protect slaves? Yes, it did.

reply to post by WarminIndy

We also know that the Israelites were forbidden to have piercings or tattoos,

No, not all of them, the Levite priests were not allowed them.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

We also know that the Israelites were forbidden to have piercings or tattoos,

No, not all of them, the Levite priests were not allowed them.

Yes, I will agree with that. I know today that Jewish people believe that tattoos are not permitted, so perhaps that was one thing they applied broadly.

Amy Winehouse was definitely not a Levite priest...lol.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Christians are not under the law of the Mosaic covenant since Christians believe that Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant. THE MOSAIC LAW IS NOT BINDING ON CHRISTIANS.

Incorrect, again. Do Christians even read the OT?

David says that "All His precepts are sure; they are established forever" . It's even repeated later in Psalms:

Psalms 119:160
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever

The OT even goes into depth as to even guard itself from alterations within itself saying:

You shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish from it, in order that you may keep the commandments of Jehovah your God

If you for some strange reason believe the OT doesn't apply then you're contradicting yourself and the perpetuity and extent of God's law as it was taught in both the OT and the NT. Jesus even says in Matthew 5:17-19 that he didn't come to get rid of the OT law. And if I remember correctly, heave AND earth are still here so the law still applies. If you disagree, well, you'll be joining the rest of us in a not so pleasant place.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

We also know that the Israelites were forbidden to have piercings or tattoos,

No, not all of them, the Levite priests were not allowed them.

Yes, I will agree with that. I know today that Jewish people believe that tattoos are not permitted, so perhaps that was one thing they applied broadly.

Amy Winehouse was definitely not a Levite priest...lol.

Well, that happens all the time. People fail to look at who the letter or statement was addressed to and apply it to all people. But I hear ya, the only people God forbid from "marking their flesh" was Levite priests.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Then why was the period of time when the church authority had the most "control" over the people was the middle age when no normal person owned a Bible and it was illegal for them to have one?

Probably because if the public owned copies of the bible, then the churches would become obsolete... A time when church and state were the same thing... both had absolute authority... distributing copies of said book would take away authority from the church and place it in the hands of the reader... as it is today.

Not only did they have authority over your body, but over your spiritual progression as well.... Do as we tell you, there is no other way... an idea that still exists to this day

Why were translators dragged from their homes and burned at the stake for working furiously to translate the Bible into English so the common man could have one?

this futher illustrates the above statement...

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by jmotley

 

See this is the issue... it wasn't written for "protection of our immortal soul"...

It was written as a means of control over the populous...

Hiya Akragon. Been meaning to send a u2u to touch base as we haven't been debating lately lol! As per your statement above: I can't find any external evidence that shows anything of the sort in any compelling or scholarly way.

Maybe you come to that conclusion by what we term 'internal' evidence?

Regardless, hope all is well with you.

Networkdude: Excellent reply and food for thought.

There is internal and external evidence to this "theory"...

Lets keep in mind "history" is written by the winners... that being said its hard to find an accurate protrayal of what those times were like... though there are biographies and documents that give the reader an idea of what life was like at the time the bible was compiled...

Jesus had many followers... and im sure his lessons were passed down from generation to generation through more then just his appostles... He taught his lessons to crowds on a regular basis... so the christian religion was slowly becomming the dominate belief getting conversion from every faith more then likely...

303 AD Galerius Convinces Diocletian To Persecute Christians- Galeria the Roman Augustus convinced Diocletian to begin a general persecution of Christians in an attempt to stop the growth of the religion. Churches were burned, and clergy were imprisoned. Persecution decreased in the Western Empire by 305 A.D. and ended in the East in 313 A.D

Once constantine arrived on the scene, the Christianity was likely the dominate belief....Constantine and his major "competitor" Licinius... issued the Edict of Milan, which made Christianity a legal religion and officially ended the persecution.

He also was Christian... and in 324ad he became the sole ruler of rome.

Now remember church and state were one and the same at this time... both with complete authority. This basically unified rome as a "christian" state...

First Council of Nicaea 325ad... established the first uniform "doctrine" of the church, and addressed many things such as "The arian Heresy"

This synod had been charged with investigation of the trouble brought about by the Arian controversy in the Greek-speaking east. To most bishops, the teachings of Arius were heretical and dangerous to the salvation of souls.

So at this point the control factor was already established, but the church wanted more control... so they outed other "christian beliefs" that didn't comply with their own...

Arius (Ἄρειος, AD 250 or 256 – 336) was a Christian presbyter in Alexandria, Egypt of Libyan origins. His teachings about the nature of the Godhead, which emphasized the Father's divinity over the Son,[1] and his opposition to the Athanasian or Trinitarian Christology, made him a controversial figure in the First Council of Nicea, convened by Roman Emperor Constantine in AD 325. After Emperor Constantine legalized and formalized the Christianity of the time in the Roman Empire, the newly recognized Catholic Church sought to unify and clarify its theology. Trinitarian Christians, including Athanasius, used Arius and Arianism as epithets to describe those who disagreed with their doctrine of co-equal Trinitarianism, a Christology representing God the Father and Son (Jesus of Nazareth) as "of one essence" (consubstantial) and coeternal.[2]

Although virtually all positive writings on Arius' theology have been suppressed or destroyed,[3] negative writings describe Arius' theology as one in which there was a time before the Son of God, where only God the Father existed. Despite concerted opposition, 'Arian', or nontrinitarian Christian churches persisted throughout Europe and North Africa, in various Gothic and Germanic kingdoms, until suppressed by military conquest or voluntary royal conversion between the fifth and seventh centuries.

After establishing certian beliefs within their own belief system as heretical... the trinitarian doctrine was now the main "christian" belief... and a few decades later the church established the "cannons" of the church... which further pushed their complete control over the populous...

IF you read the 60 cannons of the church... you will clearly see the control they established within "THE COUNCIL OF LAODICEA IN PHRYGIA PACATIANA 364 A.D."

Heres a great Link for some info in the council of Laodicea...

And my Thread on the cannons of the church

This is just a brief overview of the control established by the church... Perhaps the original intent of the scriptures was for the individual reader's "salvation"... but the church quickly monopolized that idea, and took it upon themselves to dictate to the population what is needed for "salvation"

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Then why was the period of time when the church authority had the most "control" over the people was the middle age when no normal person owned a Bible and it was illegal for them to have one?

Probably because if the public owned copies of the bible, then the churches would become obsolete... A time when church and state were the same thing... both had absolute authority... distributing copies of said book would take away authority from the church and place it in the hands of the reader... as it is today.

Not only did they have authority over your body, but over your spiritual progression as well.... Do as we tell you, there is no other way... an idea that still exists to this day

Why were translators dragged from their homes and burned at the stake for working furiously to translate the Bible into English so the common man could have one?

this futher illustrates the above statement...

Which in turn actually illustrates my point. The Bible doesn't control people, it frees people from control. The worst times in church history were the times where the Bible was forbidden to be read.

reply to post by Akragon

He also was Christian... and in 324ad he became the sole ruler of rome.

Now remember church and state were one and the same at this time... both with complete authority. This basically unified rome as a "christian" state...

Everything you've said is correct except this.

Constantine only legalized Christianity. It was his 2nd successor who made it the state religion of the Roman Empire.

reply to post by 547000


You say this like having humanist ideas are a bad thing. Since when is thinking that all humans deserve respect (atleast in the begining) a bad thing. As far as Marxism goes I dont see the corralation

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

He also was Christian... and in 324ad he became the sole ruler of rome.

Now remember church and state were one and the same at this time... both with complete authority. This basically unified rome as a "christian" state...

Everything you've said is correct except this.

Constantine only legalized Christianity. It was his 2nd successor who made it the state religion of the Roman Empire.

I humbly appoligize my friend...

I was just trying to make a point...

Either way the fact is... Christianity was the state religion... and anything that fell outside of the churches beliefs were passed off as Heretical... And we know what happens to Heretics in that time...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Then why was the period of time when the church authority had the most "control" over the people was the middle age when no normal person owned a Bible and it was illegal for them to have one?

Probably because if the public owned copies of the bible, then the churches would become obsolete... A time when church and state were the same thing... both had absolute authority... distributing copies of said book would take away authority from the church and place it in the hands of the reader... as it is today.

Not only did they have authority over your body, but over your spiritual progression as well.... Do as we tell you, there is no other way... an idea that still exists to this day

Why were translators dragged from their homes and burned at the stake for working furiously to translate the Bible into English so the common man could have one?

this futher illustrates the above statement...

Which in turn actually illustrates my point. The Bible doesn't control people, it frees people from control. The worst times in church history were the times where the Bible was forbidden to be read.

True but...

This freedom that the bible gives has only been available since the book has been widely distrubuted... before that time the church had complete control over peoples spiritual progression... which as you can see from the previous times stated... was total control via "the bible"...

And even when it was publically distributed... new churches started popping up everywhere led by those who proclaimed authority on the bible... and the cycle continued even until this day...

Since the introduction of the internet people have the ability to challenge the churches with their own doctrine... Something that could not be done in the past without being shunned by your own people for going against "the faith"...

They had total authority... but they no longer do

Now the laws regarding women, you pull the scripture that all Muslims do, to attempt to accuse the Israelites of something they did not do, and which Mohammed did do. You pull the verse from Numbers to say that those virgins were taken as sexual slaves...which is a completely false statement. The Israelite men were forbidden to partake of sexual slavery, or sexual acts involving temple prostitution. Those nations they went into all had religions that included temple prostitution. You need to read any book on the history of sex in the ancient world.

Since it seems no one is going to the link provided here are the verses I am talking about when it comes to women. .

Judges 21:10-24 - Sent warriors to destroy a town. Take all virgins for trrops. This is what god told them to do.
Ephesians 5:22-24 - Women are under men, as as the the bible says subject to men
1 Corinthians 11:8-9 - the woman belongs to the man
1 Timothy 2:11-14 - Women are to have no authority over men

There are more. Check out my blog The Bible: Its views on women part 1 & 2 www.enlightenedseeker.wordpress.com

You start off with talking about the rules for slavery. We know that all nations in that time had slaves, that is nothing new. But you also have to consider that when the laws of Moses were given, those Israelites were former slaves themselves. They had been in Egypt 430 years and only traveled in the wilderness 40 years before entering into Canaan. So the law was given just after those people were slaves and most of them still had the memories of being slaves. When you read the entire laws regarding slavery, we know that the Israelites were not permitted to treat them inhumanely, as opposed to the peoples around them. We also know the laws stated that slaves were to be given their own freedom, or release after 7 years. This is where people got the idea for Indentured Servitude.

Ok lets look at slaves.
Leviticus 25:44-46 - Rules for buying slaves
Exodus 21:2-6 - Rules on when to let you slave go. Notice that you only had to let the male slave go. Not the women or children
Exodus 21:7-11 - Buying sex slaves. These you do not need to let go free
Exodus 21:20-21 - Rules for beating slaves. You can beat them has hard as you like so long as they dont die from their injuries for a day or 2.
Luke 12:47-48 - Jesus's own words on slavery. Saying to punish your slaves.
Now I have not done a post on the slavery yet. It is in the works. How can you sit here say this was OK.

Let's discuss this in a rational manner without the religious mindset, ok? We can look at this in a very historical way because it is a history of the peoples and nations that existed in the time it was written.

Discuss this in a non-religious mindset. This statement basiclly says that you dont think the bible should be used in religion

reply to post by jmotley


Are you using it in an historical or religious manner? I can bounce as many verses off to you as well, but I said this was going to be an historical discussion with me.

Did you know that those verses you posted from the New Testament, you missed some...

The woman belongs to the man...and the body of the man belongs to the woman. It is a mutual belonging.
The people of those cities that Paul sent the letters to were Greek cities, weren't they? In those cities, Greek women were already placed in a lower status with little rights. In fact, the city of Corinth actually had civil laws that declared women could not be out alone and they had to be covered when they were out. They were forbidden by those civil laws to speak when in public.

Women were chattel and the property of some man. They did not even have the right to divorce in classical Greece. Furthermore, if a man could not get a woman pregnant he might arrange for another man to do it for him. The lack of women's legal rights has been a common complaint from women and others about Greek law. But because of their important role they could make demands that allowed them more inflence than their rights allowed. During the classical period the legal system put women in a lower status. But since they spent their time secluded, they had little to do with the legal system. They were in their own realm. Since their role was to have babies, it is unlikely that they could perform this role if they were unhappy. Their husbands would have to have acceeded to their demands and make them feel important or they would not have produced good babies.

When Paul said it was in the law, it was never in the law of Moses, it was in the law of the city of Corinth.

It is more usual for women to go forth in public with their heads covered and men with their heads uncovered,' Plutarch wrote of the Romans (Roman Questions, 267a) Corinth, a Roman colony on Greek soil, had become increasingly Greek in its traditions, including stricter veiling and seclusion of women

When you make an accusation against any religious book, please make sure you read the writings of the people who lived during those times. Plutarch said the veiling and making women silent was a Greek practice, and not a Biblical command, as you have assumed. Let us see what other Greeks said...

O God, you have married men to living engines of death. You have married them to women. Why? To perpetuate the human race? Then women were the wrong means. You should have let us donate a sum of gold or silver or copper to your holy temples, and buy our children from you. At least, we would have had value for our money and at home a life of liberty and no plague of women. (Euripides, Hippolytus: tr. Corrigan, p. 94)

This was stated by Euripides.

Now contrast this with Paul, that is completely opposite of Euripides.

The husband should give to his wife her conjugal right and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does. (1 Corinthians 7:3-4)

Do you think then that the Bible places women in a lower position? No, it most emphatically does not and people need to read history a little more often before assuming things.

reply to post by yourboycal2

If we knew gods message we would all hop on that boat and merry all along.


his message is under tons and tons and tons of misinfo , disinfo , lies , minipulation , games , deception etc etc etc.

Believe it or not... those that find HIS message... "hope on the boat and merry all along"... unless they don't understand it... as i've said, not everyone does...

plane as day would be god just pops up in the sky and says heeeeey !!

stop fighting , i'm the "man" (not literally ) lol . do this , don't do that ..


we will say oh yea ? prove it your god ...


points at the sun and explodes it , but as the radiation flies towards us at fantastic speeds , he reverses it and puts the sun back together.

God does not need to prove anything to anyone... Those that truely search for him... will find him. They are those that are called by him... And religion has nothing to do with it... though through study one may understand...

lol that would be clear as day ! literally :p


where is his message i ask of you good sir ? in select verses of the 4 books? Is it in our hearts already built in ? but we just gotta figure out which words best describe it ? but then where do we get those words from...

Yes it is "built into all man/womans hearts"... though many do not hear...

Yes it is in "select verses of those 4 books"... and various other scriptures from different religions as well...

Search for love within scripture if you choose to seek him... understand love and seek it within your search and you will see the words of God... that is IF that is what you truely seek...

You find those words from those that know...

reply to post by Akragon

Believe it or not... those that find HIS message... "hope on the boat and merry all along"... unless they don't understand it... as i've said, not everyone does...

Well if i was him i could think of 100 different ways of getting my message across. But nope , he chose a path is blurred beyond recognition . He chose a path that makes it very difficult to track him. Now there is no need to hide like this , if your intentions are true and you want to spread a message. The way he ALLOWS it to get lost in the points i made in earliar posts is just asking for people to be misguided. If i was god , i would count this as a sin for followes.

God does not need to prove anything to anyone... Those that truely search for him... will find him. They are those that are called by him... And religion has nothing to do with it... though through study one may understand...

You say this , but the people in the time of of the prophets alledgedly got alot of miracles and signs did they not ? Its not fair they get the answers to the test , and expect future generations to just go with it , because they went through it . ? Clearly he proved him self to the pharoh with moses stick and other little tricks he had ? splitting the sea ? come on now ... He had to prove him self at one point .

Yes it is "built into all man/womans hearts"... though many do not hear...

Yes it is in "select verses of those 4 books"... and various other scriptures from different religions as well...

Search for love within scripture if you choose to seek him... understand love and seek it within your search and you will see the words of God... that is IF that is what you truely seek...

You find those words from those that know

search for love within the scripture amongest all that other mess? Do you see how much harder god makes it to be found? What i want is god to help and clear the ignorance that divides the religious today.

How can the religious expect to help the world ? when they can't even agree on who's god , and who's scripture is the correct one to follow ?

You know why they can't get together? its because of all the nonsense and contradictions that plagues religion today , and you want to find the love through all of that ?

why can't i get freebies and cheats like the people who got to see miracles got ?

split a sea infront of me and watch how fast i say oh christ our savoir ... but what did they do ? they still made golden idols after seeing and experincing that ! lol something is not right here...

"select verses of those 4 books"

i don't know how you can sleep at night and find this acceptable , or even think any divine source would have only selected verses mean something when the rest considered rubbish fairy tales.

to me i would have to through out the whole book because its tainted , theres no way you can know which verses are not tainted. you only assume because they feel right ? they have a nice moral ring too it ?

then why not preserve it with his divine power? instead of letting it beside other text that are not inspired by him ?


if he doesn't care enough about that ? why should i care about him ?

reply to post by Akragon

Ack, Akragon! The original statement, made by yourself, was that, "it wasn't written for "protection of our immortal soul"...It was written as a means of control over the populous... "

So the argument that the "Church" exerted its misguided power over the common man & woman through councils and edicts has no bearing on who or how the Bible was written.

Furthermore, and as you should know by now--and I think do--the abuse of power doesn't negate the 'message' in itself. Don't confuse the "Church' with the Christian.

And now for the internal evidence: I find it consistent with the heartfelt passion with which it was obviously written.

That's my opinion, mileage may vary.

Thanks for your reply though--as off-topic and full of faulty logic as it was--I'll always have a warm place in my heart for your lil' heathen self.

reply to post by yourboycal2

Well if i was him i could think of 100 different ways of getting my message across. But nope , he chose a path is blurred beyond recognition . He chose a path that makes it very difficult to track him. Now there is no need to hide like this , if your intentions are true and you want to spread a message. The way he ALLOWS it to get lost in the points i made in earliar posts is just asking for people to be misguided. If i was god , i would count this as a sin for followes.

But you are not him... only a part of him...

You believe the path is blurred... i will tell you it is not blurred what so ever... as i previously stated, its as clear as day, though that depends on what one believes Gods word is... IF you are one that believes that the "entire bible" is Gods word... then it is garenteed you will stumble... This belief creates judgement of others...

You say this , but the people in the time of of the prophets alledgedly got alot of miracles and signs did they not ? Its not fair they get the answers to the test , and expect future generations to just go with it , because they went through it . ? Clearly he proved him self to the pharoh with moses stick and other little tricks he had ? splitting the sea ? come on now ... He had to prove him self at one point .

Keep in mind we live in an entirely different time.... this world is one HUGE distraction... Spiritual progression is much more complicated then it was in those times... We have TV, the media... your phone... your computer, your car, your house... your bills... debts.... etc etc etc... there is an endless list of distractions in this day and age that keep you from finding your true self... This is why so many turn to religion, because most are lost within this world we've created... Those that still witness the "miracles" of God are those that seperate themselves from society... or even go on a "personal spiritual journey" if you will...

Though to those of us that understand... all we must do is look outside, and the miracles of God are quite evident...

search for love within the scripture amongest all that other mess? Do you see how much harder god makes it to be found? What i want is god to help and clear the ignorance that divides the religious today.

That isn't going to happen my friend... religion has its purpose... it does lead many to God, though some are beyond the need for religious authorities...

How can the religious expect to help the world ? when they can't even agree on who's god , and who's scripture is the correct one to follow ?

IF they understood who they worship... there would be no question between religions... sadly most do not understand their God... They mearly understand their preacher and what that person believes...

You know why they can't get together? its because of all the nonsense and contradictions that plagues religion today , and you want to find the love through all of that ?

I do not want to find anything within religion... its simply a waste of my time...

"They" can't get together because they are in competition with each other... "our God is better then your God"

why can't i get freebies and cheats like the people who got to see miracles got ?

Why don't you ask him?

IF you truely seek God you WILL find him... its not an easy task, but one that is achieveable if its what you truely seek...

split a sea infront of me and watch how fast i say oh christ our savoir ... but what did they do ? they still made golden idols after seeing and experincing that ! lol something is not right here...

Correct...

Though its not God that isn't "right"... its his children...

if he doesn't care enough about that ? why should i care about him ?

I didn't say you should... that is your choice