Is the GOP finally taking Ron Paul seriously ?

Originally posted by Diablos



One or two soldiers speaking at Ron Paul's acceptance speeches does not constitute "majority" by my definition. The vast majority of the true patriots in the military support the war and know it is for the better good in the end.

You are so uninformed and propagandized by main stream media, it's laughable.

opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...

content.usatoday.com...

blacksheepreport.com...

You plan to work for the MIC as an engineer and you think war is good because YOU will profit from it. Typical chicken hawk who'd never be a true patriot put yourself in the line of fire.

Your mentality makes me sick. Go talk to a veteran of Iraq or Afghanistan who's had his arm blown off by an IED and tell him you think war is good, it helps the economy, and you want to profit from it. You'd be blessed if said soldier told you you're wrong and didn't punch your lights out.

Flag and star..

but, I'm seriously worried that Dr Paul is gonna wind up dead really soon.

"unelectable" is the buzz-word....regardless of popular support.
We mustn't forget that the shadow mob has already decided which guys to present, and probably which guy is gonna win.....
even if we DO successfully vote for Dr Paul as meager citizens....
they aren't gonna allow it.
It makes me sad.

Originally posted by Diablos

So, you dispute the FACT that war is one of our most prominent industries and employs the most Americans

Dude, you are making assumptions with no facts what so ever. Of the 10 largest employers in the US, 1 has something to do with the MIC, and that's Hewlett Packard.

247wallst.com...

Feeding people and providing them with consumer goods is America's most prominent industry.

If you're a prime example of what American Universities are pumping out, especially considering you claim to be informed, objective, and skeptical, it's no wonder why America is 22nd worldwide when it comes to education. You have NO FACTS, only your preconceived notions.

Originally posted by masterofnone"So, you dispute the FACT that war is one of our most prominent industries...."
Your words, not mine. Your claim of fact is wrong, young man.

Please understand that we have a DEFENSE industry.

WAR is an ACT upon another entity.

Have you heard of the "horrors of WAR"?

Have you ever heard of the "horrors of DEFENSE"?
I didn't think so.

Without war, we will continue to have a DEFENSE industry! It's brought us many of our greatest inventions!

War is what keeps the MIC going, which is what also keeps the defense industry strong and alive. Stop war for long periods of time, then the MIC will have a much weaker influence on the people and left-leaning pacifist politicians will be elected who want to massively cut spending for the DoD.

After all, why would we choose to spend the majority of our taxes on something that will not be used? You might disagree, but the majority of Americans could be easily convinced otherwise and funding for defense could be slashed.

Originally posted by The Old AmericanAs for the hippies and uneducated? I'm neither, and I fully support him. People with critical thinking skills support him fully.

/TOA

This has got to be a joke. Yep, the same supporters who constantly say there is some voter fraud going on whenever Paul loses, the same supporters who say the MSM is trying to ruin Paul like secretly ruining the microphone he is holding when asked a question, the same supporters who think the entire nomination is rigged and a winner was secretly chosen by the "TPTB". Clearly, these supporters are the champions of critical thought.

c'mon people, don't feed the trolls. it's amazing to see so many kids out there thinking they know how the system is run after taking couple useless college classes. keep supporting romney and his lies about creating more jobs. it makes me laugh whenever romney claims that he'll create way more jobs than obama. i mean how tough is it to create more jobs than to beat a negative number. keep drinking this anchor baby's kool-aid. he'll have no problems screwing over the citizens of this country to appease the big banks and wall street. he is obama 2.0

and for what? so that you can have your $25,000 a year career? trolls with self-interests should be ignored...

So war is what keeps the economy going? War is what we need to keep our current economic situation thriving

I respect the fact that you have taken the time to educate yourself about your opinions. I also respect the fact that you will defend the stances that you have taken the time to arrive at.

Unlike the others I wont even argue with you because I can see you choose not to be swayed anymore.

But lets get real, Romney will do nothing to change the direction this country is headed down the highway we are traveling, maybe he will speed us up or slow us down. Nothing major is going to change with Mitt or Obama in office.

Ron Paul is the only candidate who will pull a u turn and get us back on track to where we should be. Ron Paul is the candidate who will bring us to the constitution.

At the very least, Diablo, would you agree that Dr. Paul is the candidate who would make a change (even if you thinks it's a poor one) and will stand up for his beliefs. Where the other candidates will pretty much stick to the current plan.

Originally posted by Drew99GT


Dude, you are making assumptions with no facts what so ever. Of the 10 largest employers in the US, 1 has something to do with the MIC, and that's Hewlett Packard.

247wallst.com...

Feeding people and providing them with consumer goods is America's most prominent industry.

You do realize the majority of those companies are multinational companies that have their goods produced off-shores and then shipped to America? Knowing this, you consider this industry to be the most profitable for the American economy despite the fact that they aren't keeping the majority of their profits circulating in the country's economy? Also, the majority of the people who work for these companies are blue-collar workers who are most probably on some form of government entitlement, not taxpayers that contribute significantly to the country.

How about this: The defense industry is the largest employer of middle class, taxpaying Americans and is also and the largest industry that still produces American products?

Originally posted by Mindcrime30At the very least, Diablo, would you agree that Dr. Paul is the candidate who would make a change (even if you thinks it's a poor one) and will stand up for his beliefs. Where the other candidates will pretty much stick to the current plan.

edit on 14-1-2012 by Mindcrime30 because: (no reason given)

Yes, he is definitely the most consistent out of the candidates with his belief while the others, unfortunately, flip-flop occasionally on key issues.

Originally posted by Stryc9nine
c'mon people, don't feed the trolls. it's amazing to see so many kids out there thinking they know how the system is run after taking couple useless college classes. keep supporting romney and his lies about creating more jobs. it makes me laugh whenever romney claims that he'll create way more jobs than obama. i mean how tough is it to create more jobs than to beat a negative number. keep drinking this anchor baby's kool-aid. he'll have no problems screwing over the citizens of this country to appease the big banks and wall street. he is obama 2.0

and for what? so that you can have your $25,000 a year career? trolls with self-interests should be ignored...

At least Mitt Romney will create many more jobs than RP. He has experience, he's lead many successful businesses, and is a veteran when it comes to job creation. He's created 100K jobs in total. How many jobs has RP created? The one secretary in his private clinic and at most a technician or two? He clearly has no experience in job creation, and when he takes office, he'll be destroying more jobs than creating them.

reply to post by Diablos


Ron Paul is the flip flopper?

I would look a bit more into Romney's flip flopping if I were you.

Not insulting or taking a stab at you in any way but I feel (as do most) Romney is the biggest flip flopper in this election

Originally posted by Mindcrime30
Ron Paul is the flip flopper?

I would look a bit more into Romney's flip flopping if I were you.

Not insulting or taking a stab at you in any way but I feel (as do most) Romney is the biggest flip flopper in this election

If you read what I said, I said RP was the most consistent, while other candidates (Romney) unfortunately tend to be big flip-floppers when it comes to key issues.

reply to post by Diablos


You're against outsourcing, you support OWS and American labor (yet call me a leftist), you're pro-war, and you're going to vote for Mitt Romney, the guy that likes to fire people? And you think he's consistent? If Mitt Romney could ship every American job overseas because he'd profit from it, he would! He is Gordan Gecko! Dude, you're more confused than a cow on astroturf.

Straight from Bain Capital's website. Mitt Romney's company was in the business of outsourcing jobs for god's sake.

"We help clients ensure that IT offshoring and outsourcing decisions are based on business strategy and help set up deal structures, capability networks and sourcing agreements to deliver enduring results -- lower costs now and flexibility for the future.

Strategic sourcing is the process by which organizations determine how to access the right IT and business capability at the right cost. Sourcing must be managed effectively across the four key dimensions of management, resources, services and business processes.

Outsourcing of IT or business processes is just one option of sourcing strategies, often unleashing tremendous value. With strategic sourcing, Bain can enable clients to ensure sourcing decisions are based on business strategy and to help set up sourcing agreements to deliver value now and flexibility for the future."

www.bain.com...

www.politicususa.com...

Mitt Romney is going to create jobs. Thanks for the laugh.

Originally posted by Drew99GTYou're against outsourcing, you support OWS and American labor (yet call me a leftist), you're pro-war, and you're going to vote for Mitt Romney, the guy that likes to fire people? And you think he's consistent? If Mitt Romney could ship every American job overseas because he'd profit from it, he would! He is Gordan Gecko! Dude, you're more confused than a cow on astroturf.

So, I see you searched through my posts. Have nothing better to do than search the posts of someone you call a "troll", huh?

Anyhow, my original assumption of OWS was that they were against the bailouts (something I changed my mind on later, as the bailouts were critical to the economy). At first, I thought they were a noble movement. However, the more and more I saw these OWS protesters talk, the more I realized these were nothing but extreme leftists asking for more handouts. That was quite a while back. People change their minds all the time.

As for Mitt Romney, he was not obligated legally to keep jobs if it hurt his bottom line. He wasn't a politician when he was working in private sector, so he didn't have any obligation to the general public. When businesses are in a bad shape, you have to make some tough decisions in order to turn them around, and that is exactly what he did. Sure, some jobs were lost, but many more jobs were created. Thus, his net total of job creation greatly exceeds the jobs he lost. Mitt Romney, like other GOP candidates, has proposed to possibly bring back tariffs and working to end "free-trade" in order to keep American jobs here and promote and encourage small American businesses. Even if he is against it, at least he doesn't mention it openly. Ron Paul fully supports outsourcing of every American industry, as that is a result of one of the core tenet of the libertarian ideology.

Electability also plays a major role here. Based on the projections and polling thus far, Mitt Romney has the best chance to win the nomination.

Originally posted by Diablos

So, I see you searched through my posts. Have nothing better to do than search the posts of someone you call a "troll", huh?

Anyhow, my original assumption of OWS was that they were against the bailouts (something I changed my mind on later, as the bailouts were critical to the economy). At first, I thought they were a noble movement. However, the more and more I saw these OWS protesters talk, the more I realized these were nothing but extreme leftists asking for more handouts. That was quite a while back. People change their minds all the time.

As for Mitt Romney, he was not obligated legally to keep jobs if it hurt his bottom line. He wasn't a politician when he was working in private sector, so he didn't have any obligation to the general public. When businesses are in a bad shape, you have to make some tough decisions in order to turn them around, and that is exactly what he did. Sure, some jobs were lost, but many more jobs were created. Thus, his net total of job creation greatly exceeds the jobs he lost. Mitt Romney, like other GOP candidates, has proposed to possibly bring back tariffs and working to end "free-trade" in order to keep American jobs here and promote and encourage small American businesses. Even if he is against it, at least he doesn't mention it openly. Ron Paul fully supports outsourcing of every American industry, as that is a result of one of the core tenet of the libertarian ideology.

Electability also plays a major role here. Based on the projections and polling thus far, Mitt Romney has the best chance to win the nomination.

edit on 14-1-2012 by Diablos because: (no reason given)

Mark my words: Mitt Romney will be DESTROYED by Obama in a general election; newt Gingrich is already doing Obama's work. It doesn't even matter; on big issues, they're the same, to include a government mandate for healthcare.

I read your thread about OWS, I didn't search for it, it was at the top of a forum.

Ron Paul is the only GOP candidate that could beat Obama because most all the other candidates are the same - they all have supported a federal mandate for healthcare, they're all for preemptively bombing Iran, etc.

Can I ask you an honest question. Do you think the troops are the most informed group of people in America? Being placed half a world away and given state run radio to listen to, while fighting a war, why do people assume that what the troops want is what is best? They are a tad busy and a tad removed. Just asking. If you are going to attack instead of respond then I probably won't come back here.

reply to post by Littikani

I think the troops are far more informed than anyone who supports Robomney & Gettingrich. Yes the troops are isolated, but they do talk to family members who keep them informed with issues on the home-front. It's not like their living under a rock, or are blind and oblivious to whats going on. Many were already informed before they were even deployed. I think some are more in tune to what is going on compared to many brain dead civilians. Don't sell these guys short, they are far more aware than you think.

reply to post by Diablos



One of the biggest sore points about all the other candidates EXCEPT for Ron Paul is that they all signed documents signifying they would put Israel first. I have no beef with Israel, but that brings up two points. One is thats TREASON. Two, that means if an enemy attacks the US and Israel at the same time, OUR military would fight for Israel first and AMERICA last. You can go on living in your pseudo fog and deny intelligence.

www.reuters.com...

www.finalcall.com...

www.libertariantoday.com...

globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com...

reply to post by Diablos


When asked to back up Romney’s claim of having created 100,000 jobs, his campaign explains that 94,000 of those jobs are those that Staples and Sports Authority alone have created to date (that is, long after Bain’s involvement had ended). So 6000 max, but just how many thousands of small independent dealers who employed tens of thousands of people lost their jobs ...so did they really "create" jobs? We ended up with a huge Wal-Mart like company that sold items below cost until they ran all the little guys out of business. The average employee pays is lower, no benefits outside of management and all the profits go to a corporate office instead of spent in the local area.

Much has been written about Bain Capital's business model as one that sought out underperforming companies for takeover and slashed expenses of the companies by among other things laying off workers. Many of these workers lost their homes and health insurance benefits. Once the companies were streamlined, they were sold at a nifty profit for Mr. Romney and his shareholders.

Private-equity Romney —who pursued corporate buyouts that typically secured majority control of mature firms, helped reorganize them, then sold them off a few years later. These were Romney’s business deals that scored the biggest gains during his time at Bain — and those that were significantly more fundamental to building Bain’s industry-leading reputation than the small venture-capital investments that dominated the early part of his business career. Ten of these private-equity deals produced 70 percent of the dollar gains that Bain made during Romney’s tenure from 1984 until 1999 — or about $1.75 billion in total — as the Wall Street Journal points out.

But these private-equity deals also resulted in some of the most high-profile bankruptcies and job losses that Romney’s political opponents have seized upon. Four of the 10 companies that made Bain the most money under Romney went bankrupt, the Wall Street Journal points out. In 1992, for example, Bain invested about $5.1 million in American Pad and Paper and reaped an estimated $102 million four years later when the company went public. Ultimately, however, AmPad would go bankrupt in 2000.

Bain Capital is good at EXTRACTING Value, THAT IS THEY borrow against the existing assets of a firm to buy it, rearranging the deck chairs, firing people to make productivity numbers (temporarily) look good, selling off parts of it, and bankrupting other parts leaving others holding the bag (including the US Govt Pension Guarantee system), and arranging it all so that they are taxed at lower rates than your secretaries. This does not add value to our country. In short, extracting value is not the same as creating value.

The real job creators are the local guys who mortgage their houses and work long hard hours every week to make a living, growing their companies, that is real capitalism.

Read more: articles.businessinsider.com...
www.washingtonpost.com...
www.allvoices.com...

reply to post by Diablos


What's the horror of war for poor men, women and children (in really poor countries that have no weapons of mass destruction), when you might have to find a different line of work ....or just work on defense on home soil....

Civilians have borne the brunt of modern warfare, with 10 civilians dying for every soldier in wars fought since the mid-20th century, compared with 9 soldiers killed for every civilian in World War I, according to a 2001 study by the International Committee of the Red Cross.

New York has 128,006 Head Start-eligible children, yet only 48,013 Head Start places. For New York's share of this year's Afghan War spending, the state could fund Head Start places for all eligible children for 23 years.
Wisconsin has 527,000 uninsured residents. For Wisconsin's cumulative Afghan War spending, the state could provide insurance for all uninsured for 3 years.
Washington consumes 1,206,651 Billion British thermal units (BBtu) of non-renewable energy and only 826,289 BBtu of renewable energy. For Washington's share of cumulative Afghan and Iraq war spending, it could pay 45% of the cost to convert all non-renewable energy to all solar energy or 133% to convert to all wind energy.
At the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, the North Carolina share of total war spending ($31 billion) would fund all in-state expenses of a four-year education for each incoming freshman class for the next 95 years.

So no jobs there then...
www.rawa.org...
costofwar.com...


costofwar.com...