Groom Lake, been there...

Amazing story, thanks for sharing. No question that they didn't want you there at all which was proven by pulling miracles to get your plane going after a nice night rest!

***Plane is fixed, nothing to see here, now fly away***

reply to post by gariac


www.aviationmuseum.eu...

I'm not sure why the link didn't work the first time. However, I suspect pilot error. ;-)

I used the wayback machine on archive.org to find some of the information, then knowing what to look for, I got the other, more obscure links.

I've talked to aircraft salvage people. It is a tricky business. There is a trade off between selling useful parts versus scrap metal and precious metal recovery. [Plenty of gold on aircraft.] They literally leave the aircraft sitting around for years until it makes sense to pull the plug.

I have "toured" the Mojave airport boneyard. It requires a cash deal with the right people. I'm not sure they still "accept donations" since some of the tenants got pissed. [I have photos of the pods Fedex uses for countermeasures to SAMs. That is the only self censorship I ever did. Now they are public knowledge.] The boneyard at Victorville can be toured a bit more above the counter. However, their junk isn't nearly as cool as at Mojave.

Back to the P-3, it is often a function of what parts are interchangeable with commercial aircraft. If the part only fits a P-3, then the demand isn't as great as if the part goes on something more standard. The flow is actually going the other way these days. Many of the more standard military aircraft are getting parts from commercial aircraft.

dev.designfax.net...

reply to post by gariac


Yes, I remember that the turbines were really the same stock as what was in the Electra, but there were mods for military endurance and auxiliary equipment as I was told. United used to fly a large stock of Electra, and I wonder how many of those civilian planes are still active and if parts in the engine were truly interchangeable. Your research has shown me some great links to investigate and is a lot of fun, thanks!

Originally posted by indy0725
reply to post by charlyv

 

there are people in here that "know a lot more than i do" so that makes it a vaild arguement?wow.I don't have a bad attitude I'm just saying I think you're full of it.I don't really believe they;d just let some random plane land at area 51 that was having problems.I mean i understand its a military plane but I'm just not buying it.

That is just my point, and you came out and illustrated it exactly. You could have said that I may have landed some where else, or I was mistaken and we landed close to Area 51, but you did not. You said I was "Full of It" so, there we have the demarcation point.

That is the dis-respectful part, and it flies in the face of everyone on here that is interested in this story. You DO have a bad attitude, and you obviously know nothing about this area of interest in what we are talking about, so why even bother to register an opinion unless it is constructive?

I am not asking anyone to BUY anything. What would you say if someone told you that you were "Full of It"? You define what ATS has been reprimanding many about mutual respect. You need to check that "attitude" at the door when you post in this forum , if you want to ever contribute here , and get the same respect from the rest of us.

I will use the star rating to see how people here agree with what has been disgussed in this little controversy.

Awesome story!

Thank you very much for sharing!

Peace, Love, Unity & Respect

reply to post by charlyv


Hi CharlyV.

I just wanted to thank you for an excellent post, and the usual analysis and discussion from Garic et al has been on form as always.

Please ignore indy0725, he's obviously just a troll trying to provoke a reaction from you. Ignore him and his uneducated, illiterate little brain will get bored and he'll crawl back under his rock.

Thanks again for your excellent posts.

reply to post by charlyv


I am not doubting your story but I find it very interesting that the air traffic controller would hand you over to area 51, especially at such a sensitive time, namely the cold war. There are a lot of airfields in NV, military or not that they could have handed you over too. Perhaps it's because you were all military personnel, perhaps it's because there was no testing going on that day...who knows?

Thomasz
reply to post by charlyv

 

I am not doubting your story but I find it very interesting that the air traffic controller would hand you over to area 51, especially at such a sensitive time, namely the cold war. There are a lot of airfields in NV, military or not that they could have handed you over too. Perhaps it's because you were all military personnel, perhaps it's because there was no testing going on that day...who knows?

All that I can say on that is that information of an uncontrolled fire in the wing area of an airplane, given to an ATC, dictates the closest place to get that bird on the ground. Now, if that were true if this was a commercial aircraft, I would certainly like to hope so, but that again is conjecture based on unobtainable facts. Certainly, in all of these years, this scenario must have a close match.

As soon as we entered Nevada, the #4 engine (a turbo-prop) started to go haywire, it started making a vibrating noise, spun down and the pilot got it re-started, and then it caught on fire.

Reviewing this tale again, there is no route where Groom Lake is the closest airport. A route through southern Nevada means Nellis, McCarran, Creech (Indian Springs back then), and Desert Rock rock would be closer than Groom Lake. A central Nevada route would mean the TTR would be the closest base. But coming from New Orleans, the southern Nevada route would be more likely.

However, you could change this tale by saying you were flying in Nevada for some time then had an engine problem and you couldn[t turn back to Nellis. A likely route to KNUQ would take a route (using roads) that is roughly up 95 then west along route 6. But still, using that route, there is zero logic in sending a plane to a base where the pilot has no charts, let along the security issues, when Creech (then Indian Springs), Desert Rock Airstrip, and Beatty are all available, not to mention Yucca Dry Lake and Pahute Mesa.

gariac

As soon as we entered Nevada, the #4 engine (a turbo-prop) started to go haywire, it started making a vibrating noise, spun down and the pilot got it re-started, and then it caught on fire.

Reviewing this tale again, there is no route where Groom Lake is the closest airport. A route through southern Nevada means Nellis, McCarran, Creech (Indian Springs back then), and Desert Rock rock would be closer than Groom Lake. A central Nevada route would mean the TTR would be the closest base. But coming from New Orleans, the southern Nevada route would be more likely.

However, you could change this tale by saying you were flying in Nevada for some time then had an engine problem and you couldn[t turn back to Nellis. A likely route to KNUQ would take a route (using roads) that is roughly up 95 then west along route 6. But still, using that route, there is zero logic in sending a plane to a base where the pilot has no charts, let along the security issues, when Creech (then Indian Springs), Desert Rock Airstrip, and Beatty are all available, not to mention Yucca Dry Lake and Pahute Mesa.

Hi gariac,
I have tried to research the details of this flight ad nauseum. I have to go with what the flight crew and navigator layed out on the table as discussed in the account. I have absolutely nothing to change. I know you are an expert here on aircraft operations in that area, but I was there, and it really happened. What more can I say. Thank you for your contributions, as they are important to me.

reply to post by charlyv


You don't need to be an expert on Groom Lake operations. Just look at a map of a Nevada and try to convince yourself that upon entering Nevada, Groom Lake is the safest place to do an emergency landing. It just isn't the case. For every approach to a Groom Lake, you have to fly over another airport.

a reply to: charlyv

Thanks for the great story, I had a good laugh with the submarine anecdote :')

a reply to: gariac

Hello again. Visiting the thread and still enjoying the comments.

In answer to your observation, which are great ones, I have also pondered answers to why this would be.

Remember, we were vectored there by an ATC. My prioritized list would be:

First, who can immediately take on an emergency landing, as time was a critical factor.
Second , the selection would be an airstrip that can lay down a foam blanket with minimal notice.
Third, knowing that this was a Lockheed P3, a place where such a craft could be repaired with the presumed damage that was probably occurring. I doubt that the third scenario was in the selection criteria, but they did pull it off rather effortlessly.

Thanks for sharing your experience, it was a good read.

Have you told this story before?
I am sure I have heard a very similar account. Maybe it was from another crew member?

Damn old age and memory loss, I wish I could remember where I have heard it.

I really liked this story. I'm curious though.
Based on the formatting of the OP, it seems to have been pasted from somewhere else. Any reason why?

originally posted by: Shaded27
Thanks for sharing your experience, it was a good read.

Have you told this story before?
I am sure I have heard a very similar account. Maybe it was from another crew member?

Damn old age and memory loss, I wish I could remember where I have heard it.

This is the only place that the entire story is layed out. Some comments and conversation in some military sites, but very sparce. I know it has probably been copied out of here by some unscrupulous people and placed elsewhere..

If you were in the East Coast Navy at the time, or perhaps knew some of the crew, I am sure you would have heard the same story. Drop me a line if you remember any names.

a reply to: TXRabbit

Not a chance. This entire post is my recollection, and my writing.

Friend...thanks for sharing this story with the many curious folks on this and other forums like this. I myself had a similar incident only it was not about Area 51, I actually had a close encounter with a craft with humanoid figures looking at me.

This incident happened many years ago while I was in basic training at Ft. Benning, GA during exercises in the woods called BIVUAC or something of that sort.

The craft I saw is exactly as what many have described. It was delta shaped, it could remain hovering, and it was completely silent without any sound. The only thing I noticed was that the trees and leaves directly underneath its belly seemed to be vibrating.

I truly believe that we are not alone and even after many years, I still wonder if those were time travelers from the future because they looked exactly like we do.

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: TXRabbit

Not a chance. This entire post is my recollection, and my writing.

Not meant to be accusatory so sorry if it came across as such. I simply noticed line-breaks where there shouldn't have been. I guess it's my inner "grammer-nazi" shining through.

originally posted by: TXRabbit

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: TXRabbit

Not a chance. This entire post is my recollection, and my writing.

Not meant to be accusatory so sorry if it came across as such. I simply noticed line-breaks where there shouldn't have been. I guess it's my inner "grammer-nazi" shining through.

That's ok, and in fact a correct observation. If I have something to post that is of any length, I do it in word or notepad, and then copy it in to the post. I have learned over the years, never to trust sourcing data directly into a web page, and I have lost some rather big posts that way. When you go and paste it back, yes, it introduces line break artifacts where you did not intend to place them.