a rant : firearms are not the magical key to survival

Firearms are 20th Century.

You want to be building directed energy weapons now. It's very cheap and easy to build. Silent, no big boom.

No bullets with micro-serial numbers to track. Easily recharged anywheres from anything.

Get the tools of the century, firearms are last century.

Originally posted by Pervius
Firearms are 20th Century.

You want to be building directed energy weapons now. It's very cheap and easy to build. Silent, no big boom.

No bullets with micro-serial numbers to track. Easily recharged anywheres from anything.

Get the tools of the century, firearms are last century.

Only if they are solar powered...remember we are talking about a SHTF situation in this thread.

I've seen this often here in the survival forums.

When people discuss survival there are many amongst us who only want to focus on weapons.

A weapon(s) is only one tool that should be in your survival toolbox. You need many things if you're really getting prepared.

Having a firearm is very helpful but you have to keep in mind a few things:

1) Unless you have a silencer your location will be revealed.

2) Ammunition doesn't last forever. In fact, it runs out much faster than most people believe.

3) Unless you are semi-knowledgeable about the workings of the gun, they will eventually break, and you will have to either repair or scrap them. Especially if used often.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


A firearm is not magical if you have one. If you have one, then it is just another tool. It has many uses, but it won't think for itself, the responsibility is still yours.

HOWEVER,
If you don't have one, then you are sitting duck, and none of your other tools or skills matter! A firearm is vital to protecting yourself from gangs of people or other people with firearms. Have you seen the movie, "Contagion?" It isn't a great movie, but there is a scene where he hears a couple of "POPS" and he looks out the window to see flashes in the window of his neighbors across the street. Then 2 or 3 men run out with the supplies from the neighbor. The star realizes he has nothing to defend himself. If those same 2 or 3 men had run over and kicked in his door, he would have been dead where he stood, and his teen daughter would have become either dead, or property of the attackers to be used and passed around!

I don't plan to ever find myself in a helpless situation like that. Imagine the horror as you watch several armed men approach, and all you can do is grab a lamp, or a fire extinguisher, but you know deep down that you can't protect yourself or your family.

So, I agree, a firearm is nothing magical, not even close, it is just a tool. It is just like having a hammer, and a spare tire, and a pocket knife, and a flashlight, and some extra rope. You might never need half of that stuff, but when you need it, you need it, and you better have it.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
hey - a pet peeve of mine is the delusion that a fire arm is the key to survival

please abandon this delusion

a firearm will not :

locate potable water

locate foragable vegitation

locate game

assist your attepmt to navigate from way point A to waypoint B

etc etc etc

a firearm has many uses - but it is not a panecea

please realise that you need several vital skill sets to survive

a firearm will assist and enhance somoe oth them

dont use the fiearm as a crutch

Firearms help me keep all these assets from being stolen once located.

I don't know anyone nor have I ever heard of anyone contemplating a survival scenario saying that a weapon was all that was needed. Not one. I think you've set up a straw man argument to rant against that depicts someone who doesn't actually exist.

On the other hand, if you don't have a firearm because you've been concentrating on all those other things you mentioned and think a firearm is not important, and all I have is a firearm, then I get your stuff and you don't get anything. Kind of a penny wise pound foolish thing.

Originally posted by schuyler

On the other hand, if you don't have a firearm because you've been concentrating on all those other things you mentioned and think a firearm is not important, and all I have is a firearm, then I get your stuff and you don't get anything.

That's not a given, either. Many a gunslinger has been laid low by a stealthily wielded blade.
Or even just a rock.
A gun would most definitely tip the odds in your favor, but it does not guarantee the win.

It's always better to rely on your wits than on anything else.

Originally posted by subject x

Originally posted by schuyler

On the other hand, if you don't have a firearm because you've been concentrating on all those other things you mentioned and think a firearm is not important, and all I have is a firearm, then I get your stuff and you don't get anything.

That's not a given, either. Many a gunslinger has been laid low by a stealthily weilded blade.
Or even just a rock.
A gun would most definitely tip the odds in your favor, but it does not guarantee the win.

It's always better to rely on your wits than on anything else.

It could happen that way, but then there's the old adage, "Never bring a knife to a gunfight." But I agree that a gun is not a substitute for wits. Wits AND a gun, however, will still get me the guy's stuff--and a knife to boot!

reply to post by schuyler

I guess it comes down to who's got the better wits.
Or the better luck.

reply to post by schuyler


hi - please read this thread , i could post others

as you are claiming ` strawman arguments ` you might care to re-read my OP - and find the part where i claim that people are advocating a gun as the sole solution

as highlighted in the thread i reference - people ARE saying get a gun - when other kit is clearly needed too

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by schuyler

 

hi - please read this thread , i could post others

as you are claiming ` strawman arguments ` you might care to re-read my OP - and find the part where i claim that people are advocating a gun as the sole solution

as highlighted in the thread i reference - people ARE saying get a gun - when other kit is clearly needed too

Even on the thread you are cited people are saying a firearm may be important, but they never said the ONLY thing. My argument is that no one I know, including people on your other thread, has said you need ONLY a firearm. They DID note, as I also did, that all things being equal, the guy with the firearm winds up with everything else on the list. That's what I mean by a strawman argument. Nobody thinks like you say they think.

"Most important" does not equate to "only."

Having said that, I enjoy all these lists and usually learn of something new each time.

Sorry using a gun as a crutch is a stupid idea case in point i lost a cousin years ago because he flipped his car and the moron tried using it as a crutch.

The idiot dazed and confused from that failed to clear the weapon and somehow it went off and he died just something to remember.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


You say,

firearms are not the magical key to survival

Maybe not, but they are the key to removing someone who may attempt to hinder my survival.
They can also greatly increase my chances of finding food.
Hope it helps

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I hate to argue with what seems to be a perfectly reasonable and logical idea but, i would take the gun.
Why? you say!
I can get a knife easily

So, it would be a 22 LR with a thousand rounds thx!

It would be a rare occurrence to have only given opportunity to having a gun or a knife and really is nonsensical, now most will only have access to a knife or a hammer or other non firearm implements, that's pretty much a given, even fashioning a weapon if the need arose, but the fact remains that if given the choice and having the opportunity, most intelligent people would gather up firearms and ammo in a first defense scenario, before they ever took up a knife, baseball bat, or shovel, especially for the fact that you have to subject yourself to all dangers to even get close enough to use said weaponry with a potential of instant fail against an aggressor with a shotgun, which will be most likely the case.

I get a big chuckle out of watching movies where the hero kicks everyone's butt with their bare hands as these people are shooting at them, then after he eliminates them he leaves their weaponry and ammo behind, because hes some sort of super man...FANTASY LAND
the guy with the gun that has focus and a clear conscience will not bargain with you or want to give a little speech to give you enough time to disarm him, hes not even going to look at you twice or make eye contact with you, hes going to drop you at the moment you are exposed to his aim and hes going to pilfer your remains as he moves along, kind of like that German in private Ryan they released, which by the way would have never happened either, but that the facts

I have them all...Guns, knives, baseball bat, shovels, pick ax, hand ax.

I also know when to use what, for the given situation. Nope, will not give up my guns to make you feel better.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


A fire arm will help me find those things without harassment, and keep those things without fear.



When everything goes to hell, all you need is a cave and a firearm. Getting everything is most certainly a priority. Without support, you cannot do it in safety.



You do need a crutch. That's the thing. And a fire arm is a good one.

Originally posted by subject x
reply to post by schuyler

 

I guess it comes down to who's got the better wits.
Or the better luck.

Its not about luck its about skill.

Be it a shot or a IED or poison or a arrow if you have the skill they are all tools. and a good craftsman keeps a box of tools
And the knowledge to use them to finely craft his product.

i am a craftsman.

So what you are getting at is I will need more than a case of beans, my AK, and 100,000 rounds of ammunition to survive the apocalypse?

No Way. I will not hear of it. This amounts to sacrilege to interrupt the eternal argument of AR vs AK, pistol vs shotgun, sling shot vs blow gun, blue hammers vs red hammers.

EVERYBODY knows when the SHTF, it will be an endless, oncoming wave of unprepared human parasites intent on stealing my beans. I will be lucky if I do not melt my barrel mowing them down day and night.

Disclaimer: I suffer from terminal sarcasm. I agree a firearm will be a handy tool but no where near as important as other things like a positive/survivalist attitude, clean water, and pop tarts.