9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

Bah! I see its Useless! Some people just dont want to WAKE UP and Smell the Coffee! Even if you write a zillion posts and links and pictures, it still wont matter. I guess living in denial is far better then admiting the problem. Its Easy - for some time, but it gets harder and harder... Biggest Enemy of the Freedom is a Satisfied Slave. Well if You are satisified with the Goverments Version of the Truth behind the Pentagon attack and the Flight 77, then fine with me. I am not. And I am not even American. Thierry Meyssan is not satisified with the official "Truth" either. And he is French. And that wont count, because the People who should Wake up and start digging and pushing the govemrent are the Americans. And most of them are Saitisfied. OK - then lets "Pretend" its a Happy End. Belive the Military Version of the "Truth" and Belive its the damn Muslim Terrorists and belive that Everything is Allright.... Sometimes its easier to Pretend, Right? And to Lie. But that wont Last. Sooner or later the Real Truth will come out. And then it will be Hell to Pay!

I'm not American, either. I don't know what the truth is with this one - what I do know though, is that there are certain pieces of information which are more credible, and more reliable, than others. This leads me to a conclusion that perhaps does "side" more with the government's report on whether there was a plane, or whether there wasn't a plane (or indeed, whether it was a 757 versus something else). Of course, that doesn't cover who was responsible, at various levels. Very simply though - at this juncture, all we can do is look at what's been given to us. Some of us will draw certain conclusions, some of us won't. Are the only valid opinions here those which adhere to the "there was no 757" train of thought? No, of course not.

Originally posted by Souljah Thierry Meyssan is not satisified with the official "Truth" either. And he is French.

Actually it would be more accurate to describe him by his political viewpoint, which is extreme left wing, rather than his nationality. Like many other’s who preach revisionism his view of realaity is badly distorted by his preconceived bias. Fortunately, most of French Media, including many left leaning news outlets quickly debunked Meyssan’s ramblings for the crap that it is. In fact, two other French journalists published a book called “The Horrifying Lie” in which they not only eviscerated Meyssan’s theories, but they also did something that Meyssan apparently was too lazy to do, they traveled to America and viewed the sites, and interviewed the witnesses. Once again, I have to ask you, Souljah, Why is Meyssan so obviously wrong about the plane passing in and out of “3 concrete block buildings?” Do you think that the plane did in fact pass through “3 concrete block buildings” also? Do you also believe, like Meyssan, that the pentagon has an automatic missile defense system that is set to fire on any plane that approaches too close to it? Does this make sense to you in light of the fact that the building is less than a mile from an active approach path for Reagan Airport?

Larry (25thID), Are you still interested in learning how the Payne Stewart incident has been completely misinterpreted (laughably so, in fact) by the 911 conspiracy theorists? If you are, please note the following: 1) Last contact with the plane at 09:27 EDT 2) 09:33 EDT (08:33CDT), ATC attempt at contact fails. 3) 1010 EDT/0910CDT aircraft crosses time line 4) 09:52 CDT (10:52 EDT) First intercept by Eglin F-16 5) 11:13 CDT (12:13 EDT): Second intercept by Tulsa F-16s Note that the first plane was ALREADY AIRBORNE on an unrelated training mission when it was vectored to the intercept. It wasn’t until the two planes from Tulsa intercepted the jet almost three hours after contact was lost, that it would have been possible to “shoot” down the plane. So, how is it possible to infer from this that there was a “stand down” on 9/11?

Originally posted by HowardRoark Actually it would be more accurate to describe him by his political viewpoint, which is extreme left wing, rather than his nationality.

Well at least he is trying to come to the bottom of this! This is clearly the "JFK Assassination of our Times" - and People want to get to the bottom of it. So he made a few mistakes in his Theories - but at least he knows that something is terribly wrong with this official story. As I said before, I do not belive that Boeing crashed thru 3 concrete walls, apparently the aircraft just crashed through one building. But that is not the case here. The problem is that this DOES smell like a Conspircy, however you turn it. Maybe it was a Cruise Missile. Maybe it was a Boeing 757. Maybe this Boeing 757 was loaded with Explosives. Maybe this Boeing 757 was Remotly Controlled. Maybe it was Boeing 737, that looks like Boeing 757. Maybe it was another aircraft - like S3 Viking. Maybe it was the Global Hawk aircraft. Maybe it was a Bomb Truck. Maybe it was another smaller passenger Aircraft. Maybe it was hijacked by Terrorists. Maybe all of the above is not True. Maybe not. In any case - people try to think of a possible Theory on the basis of given evidence. But YOU and other "debunkers" and supporters of Offical Story are just Satisified with the offical version and clearly dont want to Quesiton it. Not just that you are satisified - you Protect and Defend the offical story. You defend the fact that FBI took away the other recordings from different Cameras, clearly trying to Hide something by not showing them to all of Us. Why is that? Are you on FBI/CIA/NSA Payrole? Why are there 72 pages and 284792 views and 1433 posts then in this thread? Too many Questions - not enough Answers. Clearly a sign of a Conspiracy. But hey - its the same as with the JFK Assassination: The Men who had to Power to Perform such Actions, are the Men who have the Power to Cover it up. And as long as they are in Control and in Power, nothing will surface that will expos these Men with Power. You think these Men are Islamic Terrorists that were training in camps in Afganistan and Pakistan? You think these Terrorists had the Power to Cover it up? You think these Terrorists had the Power to keep the evidence from the public, such as other camera recordings? You think these Terrorists could fly airplanes at all? You think these Terrorists knew that NORAD is not going to respond for 30 minutes, so that they will have a clear path to crash into Pentagon? You think these Terrorists had all this Information and all this Power? Yea RIGHT! Keep Dreaming then. Im Wide Awake.

Maybe it was a Cruise Missile. Maybe it was a Boeing 757. Maybe this Boeing 757 was loaded with Explosives. Maybe this Boeing 757 was Remotly Controlled. Maybe it was Boeing 737, that looks like Boeing 757. Maybe it was another aircraft - like S3 Viking. Maybe it was the Global Hawk aircraft. Maybe it was a Bomb Truck. Maybe it was another smaller passenger Aircraft. Maybe it was hijacked by Terrorists.

That's more like it! This is about trying to prove, or provide evidence to support, certain claims and theories - obviously, they all can't be true. So people have found evidence to support some claims, and disprove others. Despite reading through your posts, I can never seem to find anything that comes close to disproving what was originally posted. Rhetoric and conjecture, sure. But not so much in the way of evidence.

But YOU and other "debunkers" and supporters of Offical Story are just Satisified with the offical version and clearly dont want to .

Perhaps the "debunkers" HAVE questioned it, and come to their own conclusions. That's exactly what you did, too, isn't it? Read the information, and garnered your own conclusion? Gee, who would have thought?

Why are there 72 pages and 284792 views and 1433 posts then in this thread?

Probably because people a) appreciated the time and effort put into the original post; b) had questions, and c) appreciated the opportunity to discuss further. No, of course not. It must be because it's a conspiracy.

You think these Terrorists could fly airplanes at all?

The preponderance of evidence does support this, yes. I cannot understand why this part is even in dispute. Sure, they weren't going to win any "Pilot Of The Year" competition, but there's more than adequate evidence showing that most had at least the ability to make Big Thing A go towards Big Thing B. It's odd that because some have disputed and/or disagreed with your opinion, that you're so quick to throw out accusations of the "Are you on their paylist?!" ilk. That just undermines much of your argument, sadly.

. What you need are people who are divorced from any beliefs, AND given complete and total access to facts information and all the evidence. But much of the evidence is in the hands of people who may have been involved in a conspiracy, infact if they did perpetrate one they would make certain they acquired [and likely destroyed] all of that evidence. Without a popular demand for an inquiry, No politician or public official is ever going to look into it in a systematic non-political way. The biggest case of mass-murder on American soil, and no comprehesive forensics were ever conducted. Rely on FEMA? They lied about the toxic dust from the smoke/dust plume. Credibility = zero. .

Originally posted by Souljah Why are there 72 pages and 284792 views and 1433 posts then in this thread? Too many Questions - not enough Answers. Clearly a sign of a Conspiracy.

No. It's because people fail to look at things realistically (or objectively). For some people psychologically, they NEED (it's more than just a want) to have the government to be responsible for things like 9/11. It keeps them going. How do you think websites like Alex Jones' stay up? Because he feeds these people's needs. These people are convinced the gov is out to get them, no matter how much evidence you present otherwise. Anyone without that premeditated hate against the gov will look at the theories and conspiricies they present and laugh, but these people will defend them until death. There's plenty of questions presented in threads like these alright. However threads like these are perpetuated because alot of the time, the answers given don't satisfy those people's needs.

9-11 and the IMPOSSIBLE The Pentagon Almost nothing in the "official" 9-11 account proves to be factual. For all the purported U.S. failures; no one was punished - most were rewarded. Read it all here Missing images arent anything big, but I did find them elsewhere. Missing image 1 Missing image 2 Missing image 3 THE MYSTERIOUS PIECE OF DEBRIS Read it all here includes images of the famous chunk of debris and how it fits, or doesnt fit.From the looks of it, looks like it could fit on a 65' Barracuda as well The Five-Sided Fantasy Island The Missing Confetti Mystery A team of computer scientists and engineers at Purdue University ran a simulation study to illustrate the dynamics of a 757 strike against the Pentagon. Their study showed the 757 penetrating the Pentagon facade across the entire width of the wings of the airplane, which is a surprising finding as we will show below -- and is also quite different from what actually happened, as the wings clearly did not penetrate the facade. Read it all here and includes many images

Well, I dont know what happened, but I am sure that the official story did not. There are too many WHY's in it and too many Holes, throught which you could really drive a friggin Boeing 757. I understand that there alot of theories and alot of hypothesis about the actual events that took place. I am one of those guys that Dont belive that Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK with his poor rifle and his poor shooting skills. And I dont belive that this Aircraft - a Boeing 757 or not - that crashed the Pentagon was a product of a Extreme Islamic Group planning, because they certainly did not posses that kind of knowledge and information to perform it. OK - maybe they were Scapegoats, meaning somebody Hired them to do the Job, and in the end the blame would fall upon the Entire Muslim Community, as we see what is going on today. I think entire 9-11 story is a Conspiracy - call me Paranoid, but I dont buy ANY of the offical Stories, that claim what happened. Do you think that JFK Assassination was a Conspiracy against US Goverment from Extreme Castro Cubans supported by Russians? Its a very carefully performed Play on a very carefully positioned Stage. And we are all running in a circle - You, me, everybody here posting in this thread. We dont have all the Facts and all the Evidence - therefore we All are only assuming what happened. Its like this:

Gerard Holmgren, an australian member of this community, has resumed the debate and proposed a classification of the various researchers and hypotheses, proposing a three level classification : MIHOP, LIHOP, debunkers. I propose a more refined classification, in the following way. * MIHOP : Make It Happen On Purpose. Researchers in this category think that the 911 attack was "engineered" at top level in the US government. Some of them deny the fact that Al Qaeda was involved in the attack. This current could be divided into three sub-currents : o MIHOP 1 : The pentagon attack was perpetrated by a missile, or a fighter jet, or a fighter jet firing a missile. The Boeing 757 of flight 77 flew over the pentagon in a diversion process. This is the basis of Thierry Meyssan's or Dick Eastman's theories. There are some variants. o MIHOP 2 : The pentagon attack was a fireworks job, done mainly by a preparation on ground. As previously, flight 77 flew over the building in a diversion. This is, for example, the position of Jerry Russel and Richard Stanley. o MIHOP 3 : The pentagon attack was perpetrated by remotely controlling the Boeing 757 of flight 77 to crash into the pentagon, with a technology known as "Global Hawk", or a close one. This is Eric Bart's position, and my position also in one of the three hypotheses. * HIHOP : Help It Happen On Purpose. Original hijacking scenario organized by Al Qaeda, but used as an experiment scenario for global hawk technology, the experiment being itself hijacked by a small kernel of conspiracists. This is an hypothese that I personnally propose, and which I think is possible. * LIHOP : Let It Happen On Purpose. Pure hijack scenario, organized by AL Qaeda, perpetrated by Hani Hanjour and a few mates (for flight 77), but stand by of normal interception procedures in order to let the attack be perpetrated (except for flight 93). Many researchers are on this line, and I think that this is possible. * Debunkers : They work, sometimes in a clever manner, to promote and defend the official line : rather like the LIHOP hypothese, but the lack of reaction of the defense system against the attacks being a "bureaucracy failure". They are sometimes accused to have access to unofficial sources for some documents.

Which Group do You belong to? [edit on 16/6/05 by Souljah]

Notice how once again, Souljah ignores the issue of why is Meyssan so obviously wrong about the plane passing in and out of “3 concrete block buildings?” Would it hurt you that much to admit that your “hero” is wrong?

Originally posted by HowardRoark Notice how once again, Souljah ignores the issue of why is Meyssan so obviously wrong about the plane passing in and out of “3 concrete block buildings?” Would it hurt you that much to admit that your “hero” is wrong?

Are You Reading what I am Writing or NOT? I DID NOT Ignore that Issue - but I see that you Ignore lots of other issues that do not support or approve the Offical BS Story. Please, read again, from my post, posted on 16/6/05 at 08:34 Post Number: 1463109 (post id: 1485002):

So he made a few mistakes in his Theories - but at least he knows that something is terribly wrong with this official story. As I said before, I do not belive that Boeing crashed thru 3 concrete walls, apparently the aircraft just crashed through one building.

And a previous post, where I admited my Mistake, posted on 14/6/05 at 05:03 Post Number: 1457176 (post id: 1479069)

I admit my mistakes - altho its hard, but I do. So I guess Im going to say that in this case of penetrating 3 blocks I was wrong - and Thierry got it wrong too.

Happy?

Fine, but you must also realize that the rest of his research is similarly flawed. Thus, his claims should be examined with great skepticism.

Originally posted by 25thID Skibum : Did you bother to read anything on the sites I listed ? If you did, your comments are somewhat baffling... Larry

Sure, then realized it was all S.S.D.D. Nothing new just a bunch of the same old rehashed incorrect statements.

Souljah : Great patience my friend. You are doing a good job. Howard : I don't know who is paying you to do this, but I have my suspicions.. Folks : The concrete in the three WTC buildings was VAPORIZED by C4...there was no pancake of all the floors one on top of another...IT WAS DEMOLITION !! who in the hell knows what really happend at the Pentago. It was not what Bush and his Co. said... a 6 year old knows that.... There was a phenomenal failure by NORAD and the FAA and the AIR FORCE. Deal with it.....it is documnted here as is everything else.. www.prisonplanet.com www.infowars.com the debunkers on here just try to wear us down..but it is too late.. VERITAS LN P.S. Howard, you should quit smoking. My Mom and Dad suffered horribly because of it. Having it as your avatar reveals great deal about your personality..Remember the X-Files lol ..

Originally posted by HowardRoark Fine, but you must also realize that the rest of his research is similarly flawed. Thus, his claims should be examined with great skepticism.

Just as everybody elses in this case of missing clues and lack of evidence. At least he is trying to get togather the evidence and make his own theory about it. That is the difference between You and Him - and between You and Me. [edit on 17/6/05 by Souljah]

omg, this is just getting ridiculous... Honestly, are these people serious? I have a hard time believing that. This is all a joke. Humans are intelligent beings, so this has to be a joke.

Originally posted by 25thID The concrete in the three WTC buildings was VAPORIZED by C4...there was no pancake of all the floors one on top of another...IT WAS DEMOLITION !!

lol Why don't you go back and READ for crying out loud! READ PEOPLE, READ! It's already been explained MANY times why this is not possibe. Sorry, please come up with another threory that's realistic. Ahh, but this is a joke. You already know that's not possible. Nice joke.

well, thatsjustwierd, you should of heard the george noory show last night. it was killer. what's the listening audience of coast to coast? couple MILLION, anyway. first, they had on bush's labour economist guy, morgan someone. you know what he said that was REALLY interesting to me. that most of the BILLIONS in black budgets is spent on , ......DISINFO! that could easily employ most, if not ALL, the loud-mouthed 'debunkers' and political polarizers on the whole world wide web. awareness is spreading. i can tell the disinfo pros are getting jumpy and careless. the thing with a web of lies, is that there is ALWAYS contradiction. well, these contradictions are being smelted out here in the inferno of ATS info grilling. of course, this is just a microcosm of the entire population. i would say the truth is reaching critical mass, and i like it! too bad the cheney's and the rest of PNACs are going top nuke five or six american cities and institute martial law before the people have a chance to organise any resistance to these bushes and dicks and rummys.

You know what amazes me is that people that know nothing about aviation get on here and continue to question these facts. I cannot speak for Howard, but I have worked in aviation on 757/767’s, I don’t any more, and now work in medicine. I have never received a thin dime from the government other then on a tax return, but sure could use some if they want to throw some my way for explaining this stuff over and over both here and on other threads. Even though they don’t pay me, based on my logic and what I know of aviation, I still see no reason to believe anything hit the pentagon but a 757. You are not grinding guys like us down based on facts, your wearing us out through repetitive silliness. Someone with some knowledge must be here on a daily basis to re-answer redundant repetitive questions that are constantly reposted, and next week there will be two new guys spewing this same nonsense that has already been explained over and over. I only post on this thread once in a while, because I am sick of it, not because there is any reason to believe that anything hit the pentagon but a 757… If you notice, most of the serious aviation guys like ET that like to post on the other aviation threads ignore this one... That should be a sign to the logical minded person. Edit to add If I have to look at that French made 3D BS diagram of a 757 sitting like its on landing gear, 10X10 foot hole punched in the masonry where a heavier part of the plane obviously went through a wall, that piece of bent aircraft metal with the “C” from the word American, or that crappy slowed down video one more time it think I am going to vomit……Oh wait….. too late....sorry about the mess guys.. [edit on 6/17/2005 by defcon5]

Originally posted by billybob the thing with a web of lies, is that there is ALWAYS contradiction. well, these contradictions are being smelted out here in the inferno of ATS info grilling.

You got that right. The disinfo being spread about C4, mysterious disappearing airplanes...yup. Plain silliness, if not outright lies.

of course, this is just a microcosm of the entire population. i would say the truth is reaching critical mass, and i like it! too bad the cheney's and the rest of PNACs are going top nuke five or six american cities and institute martial law before the people have a chance to organise any resistance to these bushes and dicks and rummys.

Uh...yeah. Which six cities would these be again? Sorry - sounds like paranoid conjecture with no base in reality.