9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

Fortunatly you have the facts that saved you. But what if you hadn't? How would you face it then? Your own country of course isn't capable to do THIS to you, right? I mean, it is AMERICA, the freedom, the eagle?!

Face it guys An VanderVeld is turning you into burnt toast but please continue...all her General Electric toasters are in perfect working order. An VanderVeld, they are silly are they not? Kinda like sick Alanons regarding a alcoholic or drug addict child in the family. "Not my child" they exclaim. Certainly my country USA wouldn't do such a thing as orchestrate terrorist attacks as a pretext to roll over the middle east and create a national security surveillance grid of the entire populace Funny thing. I dont think it will be the terrorists nor the conspirators that destroy us but I do believe it will be the anti-conspiracy theorists that do. I know I know,,,,Im a bad old american liberal whale lover thats unamerican and deserves a enemy combatant designation PS I would give you a website but we all know, unless it comes from a .edu or a .mil site or even major news,,,,it just isnt true. So Im not gonna waste your time. Best way to learn is fall hard on the chin, does a superb job of waking one up. [edit on 30-9-2004 by project_pisces]

I won't clap five with you allthough I liked the line where you stated that blind defense of ideals will destroy America. (they will say you are flattering me due to my assets...) I admit, I have a GE fridge, stainless steel and 800W of consumption, but never frosts and has no odors. This forum is interesting because it's us-and-them, black and white with very few (like yours) tones of grey or even (face it, it's since the late thirties that they are available) colours! For me it has been very interesting an amusing so far! [edit on 30-9-2004 by An VanderVeld]

they will say you are flattering me due to my assets

Interesting that you mentioned it. I was reading what you said before I even realized your pic. Honest truth. Interesting thing you talk about black and white thinking. I was just thinking of that before I saw your reply. Personally I think there are colors in between that we could not possibly imagine.

I wish there were more colours, but I think the sistem that forces the pupils to use the raw carbon pencil since the beggining as the main tool of expression through a written word has a certain amount of guilt. Man. what about a nice blue ink Pelican or (oh dear!) sepia ink Mont Blanc (not neccessarly with a golden point...) [edit on 30-9-2004 by An VanderVeld]

. i have difficulties with the 'puff of smoke' explanation for the white configuration, The shape is very convoluted for a supposedly 'jetted' puff of smoke. Secondly the supposed 'puff of smoke' doesn't disipate, it is 'instantly' in the very next frame (fraction of a second) simply GONE. Also in the next frame you see something of similar color in a position on the same level closer to the pentagon. . [edit on 30-9-2004 by slank]

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween If anyone got my point at all, it was not about the light blue/grey since I went to the trouble of using "/" as the accepted indicator of either colour, such that one might use; him/her, to someone when gender is unknown. The issue I have on the colour I thought self-evident especially given the way I charted the colours of the 3 crafts. so I provide same again, and this time highlight what to me is the obvious dissimilarity.: AA 757- ������..AA767�������.Video������Debris ����������.blue/grey��������...................... Dark blue; ��...dark blue�����..dark blue��..light blue/grey white; �����...white�����..��red����......white red;������.�red���....�����white��...��red grayish����...grey������..�..greyish��..�.blue/grey

Sorry, I have been off the web a bit lately, and just got your post. I did not realize that your discrepancy with the paint was about the striping on the wreckage. I already posted that the scheme was:

Originally posted by Defcon5 757�s and 767�s Bare Stainless Steel Dark Blue Stripe White Stripe Dark Red Stripe Bare Stainless Steel Non-Metal parts Are Grey Tail is Grey Tail has one Red A and one Blue A with a Blue Eagle The word American is Red surrounded with White

It seemed so apparent to me that this piece of wreckage was part of the lettering that is Red Outlined in White, that it just flew right by me. Catherder put a nail in that coffin already, better then I could have. As far as the video goes, you cannot even see the stripes or lettering on that grainy, lo-res, piece of film.

No need to apologize. Now rather than concentrate on that piece of debris which I calim to not know how it fits, I refer both you and Catherder to the crux of my issue on the colouring scheme which by the way is not regarding the debris. My posts on this are clear particularly since I provided the AA colour scheme compared to the colour scheme of the craft in the clip. So I would appreciate that no attempt is made to divert from the fiacl point I present. I repeat; the focus of the colour scheme is between the AA scheme and the craft on the clip. That among other details I raise are conveniently ignored in deference to arguing innocuous and highly assumptive continuously morphing points.

I was there that day and for three days and nights afterwards. There is no conspiracy. Sadly, that was a plane and those were real people (a lot of kids parts) I pulled fromt he wreckage. You dishonor them with your fantasies.

are you reffuring to this picture? That is not an official AA paint scheme. It looks like someone just found a picture of any 757 that was about the right size to fit the video to show for comparison sake. If it is an AA plane then this is a special paintjob for some kind of promotional thing. In addition, I have seen a few planes in fleets that have special paint jobs because the employees bought it for the company, or that have advertising on them, and such. That is not the paint scheme on the plane that hit the building though. If I am still not understanding what you are saying, please clarify it for me. IF you need me to find out what that specific paint scheme is, I will try to find out for you.

Originally posted by defcon5 are you reffuring to this picture?

No! I am referring to the original CNN photo as I have provided, not that poor copy of same and especially not one whereby some artistic licence is used to placement an aircraft out of sync. I have provided the AA paint scheme, more than once. It is what it is, a defined corporate policy. I would expect that a corporation as large as American Airlines will not veer from corporate logo for any reason, and unless my eyes deceive me, and no one has proven yet that they have, the colour stacking from the craft I provided as lifted from their site does not mesh with the colour stacking of the craft captured in the video. I will explain it for the last time: The stripe scheme order, namely the navy, white and red lines running horizantally along the centre of an of AA differs to the stripe scheme order of the craft on the CNN clip which I provided. I cannot make the above any clearer, and it appears to me that those arguing with me purposely either ignore this for obvious reasons or beat around the bush to detract from addressing what we know and can see in favour of what they wish to see. I won't be addressing debris colours or degraded clips any longer, they are negligible extrapolations from the original evidence available on the internet employed for the sole purpose of sidestepping the original evidence, and as such is a waste of time.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween 767 Instead of a dark blue upper area there is a lighter blue/grey followed by a dark blue stripe, then white then red, then a greyish underbelly. American is displayed as it is with the 757.

Just a note, but the lighter blue/gray area, is the area I was referring to where the buffer had been run down the side of the plane in this picture. That you stated that you could not see:

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween I see no such line.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween No! I am referring to the original CNN photo as I have provided, not that poor copy of same and especially not one whereby some artistic licence is used to placement an aircraft out of sync.

I guess that this is the photo that you are talking about, then:

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween The following are the 5 uncropped frames as produced by CNN and before anyone started fiddling with them. The picture in question is 569x347 and as you can see is quite clearer than the sample CH provided. 911research.wtc7.net... www.911research.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/> Now if I enlarge this AA picture in photoshop I can see a good outline of the craft. It appears dark blue, red stripe then white stripe then a lighter blue underbelly.Review the stripes then;

Unfortunately, I do not have Photoshop, if you can zoom in and crop the picture, then it might be clearer as to what exactly you are seeing. I just cannot make out much in this picture, even zooming in with paintbrush.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween I have provided the AA paint scheme, more than once. It is what it is, a defined corporate policy. I would expect that a corporation as large as American Airlines will not veer from corporate logo for any reason

Actually some airlines do very the paint scheme on certain planes, like I mentioned above, if it was donated, or bought for a special purpose, or any of 100 other reasons. Usually these paint schemes are very different from the standard though.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween I cannot make the above any clearer, and it appears to me that those arguing with me purposely either ignore this for obvious reasons or beat around the bush to detract from addressing what we know and can see in favour of what they wish to see.

I do not believe that anyone is purposely trying to ignore anything; you can always reattach the photo to clarify things. I have no problem with reviewing what you are stating, but really did not understand what in your original post you saw as a discrepancy. I still cannot make out much in this picture, I will try and check closer, but if you can crop and zoom in on the area you think the paint is out of whack, it would be clearer to the rest of us.

Defcon, this is the photo yes. I am sure others in here have photoshop and therefore have the ability to either enlarge or display this image as full view on their monitors. I do not know how to edit images and then post them here, but take a good look again: www.911research.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/> Find the craft by locating the tail wich is directly above the obstacle to the right. Then trace it to the left and you clearly see the craft with a red stripe and a much lighter underbelly than the top. 1) Note the fin shape. 2) Try and discern the stripe colours and their order 3) Try and locate the logo 4) Note the building visible beyond the front of the craft. 5) Also note that no part of the craft extends to the right of the obstacle. 6) Note this photo is not nearly as distorted as the one CatHerder uses for his graphics. Now if you can find some way to enlarge you would be able to discern the colouration better, perhaps CatHerder himself can do that and post it back. If he obliges then I suggest he lift a copy directly from the CNN site under EXTRA INFORMATION: www.cnn.com...

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween Defcon, this is the photo yes. I am sure others in here have photoshop and therefore have the ability to either enlarge or display this image as full view on their monitors. I do not know how to edit images and then post them here, but take a good look again: www.911research.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/> Find the craft by locating the tail wich is directly above the obstacle to the right. Then trace it to the left and you clearly see the craft with a red stripe and a much lighter underbelly than the top. 1) Note the fin shape. 2) Try and discern the stripe colours and their order 3) Try and locate the logo 4) Note the building visible beyond the front of the craft. 5) Also note that no part of the craft extends to the right of the obstacle. 6) Note this photo is not nearly as distorted as the one CatHerder uses for his graphics. Now if you can find some way to enlarge you would be able to discern the colouration better, perhaps CatHerder himself can do that and post it back. If he obliges then I suggest he lift a copy directly from the CNN site under EXTRA INFORMATION: www.cnn.com...

THAT IS ONE OF MY GRAPHICS. You are using ONE OF THE GRAPHICS I POSTED HERE. I then zoomed in on that graphic - I am sorry you are unable to grasp that, but I've come to the conclusion that I've been responding to a brick wall to begin with. This is an utter waste of time. You don't read anything, you made up your mind on some delusional conspiracy theory before posting here, and there is nothing I can do to alleviate your desire to live in a world of makebelieve. You are right. A space ship hit the Pentagon. No 757 was involved. My last post in this thread to you. [edit on 4-10-2004 by CatHerder]

When I told you did a good job, and I was sorry. You had nothing to say. So I feel all you are looking for is an argument CH.

Originally posted by SpittinCobra When I told you did a good job, and I was sorry. You had nothing to say. So I feel all you are looking for is an argument CH.

I honestly took that post as sarcasm and didn't respond to it so as to "avoid fanning the flames" -- it came after a few inflamitory posts and was a sudden reversal. I even U2U'd you and said "I'm not sure how to take this" at the time.

Originally posted by CatHerder I even U2U'd you and said "I'm not sure how to take this" at the time.

Im sorry but you DID NOT. I answer all My U2U's. SO you know, I hardly EVER say anything I dont Mean. Also, I have no problem saying when I am wrong. [edit on 2-10-2004 by SpittinCobra]

Originally posted by SpittinCobra

Originally posted by CatHerder I even U2U'd you and said "I'm not sure how to take this" at the time.

Im sorry but you DID NOT. I answer all My U2U's.

*shrug* I honestly thought I did. I know a few other ATS users U2U'd me about it, I don't save my u2us (or only keep them for a few days/week until I follow up on them or follow links provided in them), perhaps my memory is mistaken.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween but take a good look again: www.911research.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/> Find the craft by locating the tail wich is directly above the obstacle to the right. Then trace it to the left and you clearly see the craft with a red stripe and a much lighter underbelly than the top. 1) Note the fin shape. 2) Try and discern the stripe colours and their order 3) Try and locate the logo 4) Note the building visible beyond the front of the craft. 5) Also note that no part of the craft extends to the right of the obstacle. 6) Note this photo is not nearly as distorted as the one CatHerder uses for his graphics.

I see what you are talking about where it appears that there are stripes forward of the aircraft tail. What worries me though, is if you notice the curb on the other side of the street from the security gate, it also appears to have stripes, so does the side walk that is beyond that. I am not a Photo analyst, and to me what you are calling strips, looks like it might just be another section of pavement even farther off in the distance, that has been similarly pixilated. Since I do not have the equipment to check on this, I will leave that up to someone else that does. [edit on 10/2/2004 by defcon5]

All the curbs seem to all have strips of red/white when you look close, must be the suns' rays making a rainbow in the lens reflecting from the curbs' angle. [edit on 2-10-2004 by LL1]

I see what you are talking about where it appears that there are stripes forward of the aircraft tail. What worries me though, is if you notice the curb on the other side of the street from the security gate, it also appears to have stripes, so does the side walk that is beyond that.

AA airliners are marked with stripes, correct? And you can most definitely notice at least a red stripe is that not so? So if it "appears" to you that there are stripes, then considering that AA planes should have stripes, it behoves you to inspect the photo closely and; A) decide if there are stripes, and if there are not, then you must dismiss that craft as belonging to AA. B) If there are stripes, try and discern if they match AA's stripe scheme. Considering again that AA air liners do have a stripe scheme, then if you see coloured stripes on the pavement or curb, which I do not only shadows, the next questions you need to ask of yourself are; are they clearly defined and if so are they legitimate and is this video valid? From there, depending on your answers you may have even more questions. Surely someone in here knows how to enlarge that photo and post it, this thread does after all have an exceptionally high viewer count and viewer to posting ratio.